Politics Council prayers

Wij

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Victory for common sense or big fuss over nothing?

Were you even aware they happened?

Let's have a mass debate !!!
 

ECA

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Seperation of church and state is something I like, so I think it's a good thing.

Even religious people should be in favour of it as it allows for religious freedom and doesn't let the state promote one religion over any others.

I'm always mass debating.
 

DaGaffer

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Just read up about it. Unbelievable that they thought Christian prayers at council meetings were appropriate, even ignoring the secular objection. Of course no-one in Bideford has ever actually seen anyone from an ethnic minority in their lives, except in National Geographic Magazine.
 

Wazzerphuk

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Last couple of years I've stayed down in Devon has been near Bideford. Lovely part of the country.
 

old.Tohtori

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Thanks for info Wijjy.

To be fair, both sides are being stupid about it; the guy for making such a bg fuzz about it and the council for not holding prayers, for those wishing to do so, before/after official business.

I'm all for separation of state, church AND science(swings both ways that), but i also think people shoudl be let to do what-ever they want(exaggarated examples excluded).
 

Moriath

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Thing is it makes an environment where all you get in council is older christians running the show ... it should be inclusive not exculsive in their environment so should not have prayers ... if some of them want to pray do it on their own time not on my tax dolla !
 

Mabs

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i love shit like this
"this is the law"
"but im going to use religion to try to counter your argument"

come again ?
 

Lamp

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prayers at council meetings? Bugger off. Its not school assembly ffs. By all means go to church / temple / synagogue / mosque if you want to pray.
 

soze

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Easy argument is if you have to allow one religious group to down tools and pray you have to allow them all. I know there are different rules but you can't bend over backwards for one religion then tell the others to do it at home. Ban or allow them all.

But forcing people to go fuck that shit. They should be allowed to hold pray meetings but it should be an individual choice to go. And if they host Christian pray meetings they should also hold the same for Muslims ect.
 

Scouse

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If they're holding it on council time then we're paying them to pray.

They can GTFO tbfh. If they want to pray they can do it at home when they get up in the morning, or as a group before they get to work (and before their work hours) or as a group after work (as long as it's after their hours and work isn't done).

Work's work. Religion's religion. Separate.
 

soze

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If they're holding it on council time then we're paying them to pray.

They can GTFO tbfh. If they want to pray they can do it at home when they get up in the morning, or as a group before they get to work (and before their work hours) or as a group after work (as long as it's after their hours and work isn't done).

Work's work. Religion's religion. Separate.
And you think the same should stand for Muslims who are legally allowed to stop working up to 3 times a day. I agree if you mean it should be one rule, but if you just think Christians have less rights to pray I disagree.
 

Wij

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And you think the same should stand for Muslims who are legally allowed to stop working up to 3 times a day. I agree if you mean it should be one rule, but if you just think Christians have less rights to pray I disagree.
Not taking sides but the cases aren't comparable. Council meetings had prayer as the first item on the agenda. Councillors are supposed to turn up for the whole meeting including the prayers, whether they're Christian or not. Of course they can sit there and be arsey but then they're not part of the club. Peer pressure and all that.

Nobody expects others to sit through Muslims prayers.
 

soze

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Not taking sides but the cases aren't comparable. Council meetings had prayer as the first item on the agenda. Councillors are supposed to turn up for the whole meeting including the prayers, whether they're Christian or not. Of course they can sit there and be arsey but then they're not part of the club. Peer pressure and all that.

Nobody expects others to sit through Muslims prayers.
In my first post i said it should not be forced. I was questioning if everyone should be told to pray in their own time or just some groups. I agree if a council wants prayer meetings attendance should be optional.
 

Scouse

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And you think the same should stand for Muslims who are legally allowed to stop working up to 3 times a day. I agree if you mean it should be one rule, but if you just think Christians have less rights to pray I disagree.
I thought of that whilst I was typing it. And of course the answer is yes.

If muslims need to pray during the working day then they should make up the time that they take praying elsewhere. I.E. If it takes them half an hour of a 9-5 working day they should work either 8:30-5 or 9-5:30...

Companies I work at provide a prayer room for muslims - and I think that's fine. It's what a company should do to accomodate staff.

However, I hope they don't also give them free time and money or I want an hour a day just to sit at my desk and wank.


if a council wants prayer meetings attendance should be optional.
No. They should fuck off to church. They get paid to administer the local area. Crime, healthcare, social services. They don't get paid to pray.
 

Wij

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It's still a separate issue. The council broke the law because the prayers were part of the official agenda and therefore were made part of the council business. Councils can only do what they are mandated to do. They aren't allowed to do anything else.

If Muslims tried to do this it would be the same. Unless Eric pickles changes the law. Then you can expect an Islamic agenda in tower hamlets meetings :)
 

Scouse

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I agree Wij. But I wasn't being particularly picky with the argument. It's not like I'm having to pin down every single word he says to get anywhere - he's not Toht...

:)
 

Cemeterygates

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I feel somewhat inclined to agree with scouse on this bit...

"If muslims need to pray during the working day then they should make up the time that they take praying elsewhere. I.E. If it takes them half an hour of a 9-5 working day they should work either 8:30-5 or 9-5:30..."

But I think that should apply to ANY religion.

"my religion says I have to pray at x time for x amount of time".....fine, end of the day though a contract of employment states a minimum amount of working hours, so you should honor that and do your bit, if it means an extra lunch break (lets face it, a fair fuckin' few jobs you only get half hour) in the name of your faith, then you owe it to your employer to actually be doing your job for the duration stated within the contract.

If I was paying somebody/anybody to work for me, I sure as fuck wouldn't pay them to be praying to their god/gods.
 

Punishment

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Faith is a great thing unfortunately i don't have any so i feel while people should be allowed/facilitated in their belief systems it should in no way be forced upon anyone or impede me or make me have to pick up the slack.

Some of the shit the yanks get up to is scary, i like to think we are above that level of idiocy.
 

Raven

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Optional, on their own time. Fine.

Compulsory, on tax payers time. No.

Yes, they were wrong and it has now been rectified.
 

rynnor

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Wij said:
Then you can expect an Islamic agenda in tower hamlets meetings :)
It looks almost certain to come in and yes I think we probably will end up with all sorts of local council practices that drive communities a little bit further apart :(
 

Bahumat

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If you're religious you should not be allowed to work as you should spend all your time praying as you don't wanna miss out on heaven.

Also they should be near their religious brothers and sisters. We could build huge buildings where they live. Each would have a toilet and bed and for an hour a day they could leave their room to socialise.
 

Scouse

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Let me get this straight, Bahumat. You want to build a prison for all religious people?
 

old.Tohtori

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If you're religious you should not be allowed to work as you should spend all your time praying as you don't wanna miss out on heaven.

Also they should be near their religious brothers and sisters. We could build huge buildings where they live. Each would have a toilet and bed and for an hour a day they could leave their room to socialise.
Funny :p

Though don't mix religious with christian ;)
 

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