Civiliel uber sb banned from DAOC for bugabusing?!

[Marc]

Way to go...fail to read and comprehend the points made then call people retards. The irony...

rofl post of the year

 

[Dr_Evil]

Does nobody else find the 'I'm totally devastated at mythic unfairly banning my account, but I'm going to keep paying them money and start a new account' just a little bit odd?

A guildie of mine got his lvl50 SB (with 800+ alchemy) bugged, suddenly he couldn't put any equipment on it, and when he removed his armour, he couldn't put it back on. He emailed Goa about it, and they told him to delete it and make a new, and that they would make it lvl50 and give him his alchemy skill back. A couple of weeks later nothing had happened, he had lvled the new SB to 24 and played it in Thid while waiting, and he sent Goa another email asking how long it would take to fix this, and how it was going.

They replied with that they are tired to hear about his problems in game, and next time he write to them they will disband him from the game forever.

Now he was strongly considering to quit playing, and stop giving them more money, but he didn't. He said that if this had happened to his main, the lvl50 hunter, he would've quit at once.

Now, 5 months later, this sadly happened to his hunter aswell. Despite Goa telling him they would "disband him from the game forever" if he wrote to them again about his problems in game, he wrote to them again, although this time they just didn't respond, they ignored him.

But he still kept on playing, deleted his hunter - rerolled, his main, and is now leveling it again and back in Thidranki.

...

So, no, I don't find it a bit odd at all. Even though you get screwed by Goa or Mythic, doesn't mean you have to screw yourself and give up. I know my first thought - if something like this would happen to my main, I would end my life. Yes I am that addicted to this game that this thought have crossed my mind in times when my real life had no bigger excuses to keep me alive, than Dark Age of Camelot. In many ways, my life is my skald, and if Goa ended the life of my skald, there's a possibility they'd end my real life aswell in the process.

In less depressed times of life though, I haven't thought that I would end my life over a computer game, then I would just try to put it behind me and try to live on - but still the thought gives me the creeps, so I don't want to think about it.

It's possible I have become like this, not because of DAOC, but because of all the bad things that have happened to me in my life, so instead of taking my own life I've found excuses to carry on, and sometimes DAOC have been the excuse to keep me alive. I don't expect many to feel this way, but I neither expect me to be that unique that I'm the only one.

As what happened to my guildie, the event this thread is about broke my heart aswell. Death sentence for swimming on top of the water. It also made me afraid and think "maybe I should avoid the water until this bug is fixed, wich also means avoid RvR, so that I don't risk my life over some realm points and fun - and concentrate on the boring pve for a while or take a little break."

 

[Erulin]

"They replied with that they are tired to hear about his problems in game, and next time he write to them they will disband him from the game forever."

I'd really love to see that email... if that is true he should really stop paying them.

Erulin the Bloody

 

[griralith]

Basically hes been accused of 3rd party speed hack when he was using water bug in game instead.

so bug abusing is ok? lol

 

[Flimgoblin]

Jesus crist.. Some retards working at mythic at seems.. And flim, aparently the apple didnt fell far from the tree eh?
Crist, this is the worst ever. I never knew about this bug untill now, and it wouldnt suprice me if i have been using it unknowingly. And honestly, there is a big difference in window dragging / LoS abusing or what ever.. and to just not diving. I dont get it.
Btw, are you still playing raven?

What's with the apple thing? I am son of mythic!!! I'd avoid using that r word when describing mods in future btw - you do know that's both personal attacks _and_ mod baiting? I'll let this one slide in the interests of a good debate, don't do it again.

last time we had a post that long on the VN it was some twat that got banned for radaring (going boohoo! it's not true! I didn't radar!) and Sanya foolishly posted what they used to catch him - thus making it much easier for future radar users to avoid being caught.

This guy says he intentionally uses the "bug" to escape - this isn't swimming along and getting hit and just noticing you've got a bit more speed than you should do - this is intentionally going to the surface if yer fighting underwater or jumping off the bridge to run away in the water... that's more than just "accidentally getting the speed"

Plus - people are saying he was outrunning a sprinting bard speed bard... that's more than just a "water bug".

It's someone using VN to get sympathy for being banned for being a sad little bug abusing cheater - probably also trying to find out how Mythic detect speedhackers so they can work around it.

Maybe I'm odd but I'm more inclined to believe a reasonably friendly games company doesn't ban people out of the blue (since it's not really good for business) than someone who says themselves that they exploit a bug.

 

[Dr_Evil]

"They replied with that they are tired to hear about his problems in game, and next time he write to them they will disband him from the game forever."

I'd really love to see that email... if that is true he should really stop paying them.

Erulin the Bloody

I'm gonna try to get hold of the email, and with the approval of my guildie publish it, if he's not gonna do it himself - that I think he will.

I don't think he should stop playing, cause he's my friend and we still have much fun in the game, we've stuck together in the guild for good and bad times. He's an officer and the guild just wouldn't be the same without him. If this made him stop playing I would really burst into tears. I really adore him for putting up with it and going on, it makes the rest of us feel stronger aswell. :worthy:

 

[Flimgoblin]

A guildie of mine got his lvl50 SB (with 800+ alchemy) bugged, suddenly he couldn't put any equipment on it, and when he removed his armour, he couldn't put it back on. He emailed Goa about it, and they told him to delete it and make a new, and that they would make it lvl50 and give him his alchemy skill back. A couple of weeks later nothing had happened, he had lvled the new SB to 24 and played it in Thid while waiting, and he sent Goa another email asking how long it would take to fix this, and how it was going.

They replied with that they are tired to hear about his problems in game, and next time he write to them they will disband him from the game forever.

Now he was strongly considering to quit playing, and stop giving them more money, but he didn't. He said that if this had happened to his main, the lvl50 hunter, he would've quit at once.

Now, 5 months later, this sadly happened to his hunter aswell. Despite Goa telling him they would "disband him from the game forever" if he wrote to them again about his problems in game, he wrote to them again, although this time they just didn't respond, they ignored him.

But he still kept on playing, deleted his hunter - rerolled, his main, and is now leveling it again and back in Thidranki.

...

So, no, I don't find it a bit odd at all. Even though you get screwed by Goa or Mythic, doesn't mean you have to screw yourself and give up. I know my first thought - if something like this would happen to my main, I would end my life. Yes I am that addicted to this game that this thought have crossed my mind in times when my real life had no bigger excuses to keep me alive, than Dark Age of Camelot. In many ways, my life is my skald, and if Goa ended the life of my skald, there's a possibility they'd end my real life aswell in the process.

In less depressed times of life though, I haven't thought that I would end my life over a computer game, then I would just try to put it behind me and try to live on - but still the thought gives me the creeps, so I don't want to think about it.

It's possible I have become like this, not because of DAOC, but because of all the bad things that have happened to me in my life, so instead of taking my own life I've found excuses to carry on, and sometimes DAOC have been the excuse to keep me alive. I don't expect many to feel this way, but I neither expect me to be that unique that I'm the only one.

As what happened to my guildie, the event this thread is about broke my heart aswell. Death sentence for swimming on top of the water. It also made me afraid and think "maybe I should avoid the water until this bug is fixed, wich also means avoid RvR, so that I don't risk my life over some realm points and fun - and concentrate on the boring pve for a while or take a little break."

nice sob story, but last I checked the RightNow didn't have a policy of banning people for sending in queries...

if he wrote

FFS GOA YOU STOLE MY CHAR FIX NOW RETARDS OR I QUIT!!!11

I'd not be surprised if they weren't hugely cooperative.

If you've got a query number on those two reports I'll ask a GM about it but it sounds _very_ dubious wonder if we're getting the whole story there

 

[elbeek]

LOL at everyone who takes Civs word for it. Would you all be so supporting if he had used the " I was using radar so I could see who else was using it" excuse that was used in the not to distant past....I kinda think not.

Maybe we could try and fill in the missing bits from his post. I think it would go along the lines of......you cheating scumbag I am going to report you.....oh shit I have been caught, I know, I will report the bug to Mythic to get myself out of a tight spot.

 

[Varna]

If i'm fighting in water someone and their on 5% hp and they rise to top of water and sprint to get away from me using normal speed+sprint, and then use FA2, I'd be pretty annoyed when they go saying 'Whats wrong with that?' when they turn around and finish me off.... A certain RR11 skald likes to-do this, SOS, rise to top of water, FA2, come back.. wack wack IP2.. Simple fact is if that change to speed in water at low HP was made, to how its supposed to work, then that person i'm chasing would not be alive long enough out of combat to use FA2, combined with the fact 50% of the time targets are being grappled by Evenodds in the video, so he can use this 'tactic', is even lamer.

 

[Dr_Evil]

nice sob story, but last I checked the RightNow didn't have a policy of banning people for sending in queries...

if he wrote I'd not be surprised if they weren't hugely cooperative.

If you've got a query number on those two reports I'll ask a GM about it but it sounds _very_ dubious wonder if we're getting the whole story there

Believe what you want m8, you don't know me and you don't know him. I believe every word this guildie of mine says, cause he's the nicest guy in the world. Only reason I can think of that Goa treats him this way, is because he's not so good in English, as it isn't his native language. And I know how little helpful support staff can be, as I had problems with the Download tool I got when I bought Catacombs from DLgamers and got these 3 replies on my 3 emails:

hello

try now if is working , if you have same message , you have proxy active or
firewall


Dlgamer staff

no thousands of players using dlgamer manager and download and playing now


do you using router ?

you try to connect to dlgamer manager


you private ip is xx.xx.xxx.xx

Dlgamer staff

When this didn't work, I gave up and just waited a week for the Catacombs pack by snail-mail instead. I know DLgamers and Goa aren't the same, and that they have different support staff. And if I had logs of what I said to DLgamers, I would've posted them aswell. You have my word that I was as helpful as can be, I don't have logs cause I sent them using their feedback form. Also note this is only used as an example.

 

[Killswitch]

Some people here will argue and argue for pages and pages about the tiniest little details of anything, but when they read VN it's like they're reading God's Word in HTML format. Myself, I regard the quality of VN reporting as just slightly below that of the bastion of journalistic integrity, the Daily Sport.

The above being said, I think that IF (if if if if...) events happened exactly as Civ said, that is a little lame. I also think that Mythic need to devote more time to fixing LoS issues and other exploitable bugs. People pay money for this service and deserve to be able to have a certain level of confidence in the dynamics of the game. I'm pretty sure that if HSBC found a bug in their online banking that let people take cash from other accounts, they wouldn't just ban people they caught using it and keep working on their next site with brighter colours and more Javascript.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Believe what you want m8, you don't know me and you don't know him. I believe every word this guildie of mine says, cause he's the nicest guy in the world. Only reason I can think of that Goa treats him this way, is because he's not so good in English, as it isn't his native language.

Fair enough - just seen far too many "omg support sucks" whines when people have sent a massive rant instead of a polite support request. Misunderstandings happen though (of course). Gimme some issue numbers (PM probably best) and I'll ask a GM about it.

 

[Mastade]

It really comes down to whether you believe him or not.. There is some weird stuff in that thread of his tho.. first of all, i always thought they would perma ban on sight if they caught someone using speedhack/radar. According to civilel he got his 7 day suspension for speedhacking. When he told Mythic he was merely "bug abusing" he got perma banned (bug abusing just give a suspension as when ppl got suspended for abusing the bugged boats). I know Mythic can be incompetent and ban someone using a bug and call it hacking or using a 3rd party program. But for me there is a world of difference between abusing a bug and directly hacking or using radar/speedhack. And i believe Mythic thinks the same way, thats why it sounds a bit odd to me. I do believe him tho, as i always like to think of the authority and "big" companies as the real sinners in life etc. - Anyways, he might be the guy that just wants a bit of sympathy for speedhacking bugabusing whatever.. and mythic could just as easy be the company that cant even handle the own business in a proper manor :x

 

[Gazon]

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/2239.shtml

The guy was caught using a speed-hack and banned for it, period.

The story about banning for bug-abusing is something he put out to stir up controversy to cover up the fact that he was banned for hacking.

Not a bad strategy. The distraction works. Look at the page count this thread already has and it's not even VN.

 

[Hestethun]

perm ban everyone who abuses bugs, would suit me just fine. will stop some of the lame shite thats crept into this game in the last year or so and is becoming accepted as "normal" behaviour...

alternatively, mythic could stop making whatever bullshit expansion they're working on atm and actually spend some money/time fixing the game 's

that means like 70 % of the community would rerolled xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD many good players would go then ;p

 

[Konah]

that means like 70 % of the community would rerolled xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD many good players would go then ;p

more like... 69% would stop bug abusing/exploiting and 1% would be perma-banned and rightly so

 

[Fellavader]

that means like 70 % of the community would rerolled xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD many good players would go then ;p

Well not good players if they are bugabusing

 

[rure]

I don't take anything Mythic say for granted...you don't play an armsman for 4.5 years and have any reason to trust them

You are well persistant

Just because some high rr sb who's made some videos and whose mates say is a nice guy says he is innocent, doesn't make it true. You have Mythic stating they have recently banned a number of speedhackers, the fact that the guy's ban was extended from 7 days to permanent and people who witnessed him travelling unusually quickly. I'm sorry , but the "dumb Mythic screwed up again" hypothesis looks weak.

I dont care what he has done or not. We only have mythic word versus his, its in the human nature to trust their peers, so I prefer to trust him.The "dumb Mythic screwed up again" hypothesis is just as weak or as strong as the hypothesis that they made the right decision in this particular case. However, I just reacted because you never under any circumstances call your customers, scumbags, etc. Even though they are.

But do believe me, Mythic screws up more than we know of. It's just that we never see the errors, and they never admit them. Anthony Giddens writes in "The consequences of Modernity", about how expertise systems have access points where we as customers can see, but we cant see what happens behind these access points. Because if we could we would never trust pilots if we saw the errors they made. When Mythic becomes immature and start calling their customers names it just lowers their credibility in my opinion.

 

[Xsorus-Merlin]

Allow me to comment on this, since I made the original thread on the vnboards (by the way they banned me, but no one else in the thread)

Mythic has basically made up a story on the herald, as i'll point out a few facts for all to know.

1. Sanya claimed they observed him going faster then god speed, which is faster then speed 6, Problem is the people who fought him that day claim that is a lie and said they never saw him go this fast.

2. Sanya Claimed that people were using the water bug as an execuse, Appearently of all the people who got banned this weekend for speedhacking, all of them were claiming water bug as an execuse for speedhacking *grin*

3. Sanya in a Vnboard thread claimed that none of the people caught speedhacking faster then god speed were actually found near water, Thats right... She claims they were caught no where near any water, Problem with this story is.. A. Ciliviel only fights near the water so he can kite, B. If he's having to use God speed from a speedhack, then he's running from someone.. Most likely larger numbers, Which if you saw a Shadowblade on land moving faster then speed 6, You'd probably see a billion posts on the boards about it. There was none. Infact of all the posts claiming he speed hacked, they all occured in the water itself, and finally B, The CSR who caught him moving at god speed messaged him while he was sitting at Uppland 30 minutes after having fought someone.

Now the problem with that is, Everytime I've seen someone moving at massive speeds via speedhacks, the CSR's don't wait 30 minutes to ban them, They kick them from the game within 2 minutes.

So now we have Sanya claiming that a shadowblade less then 100k away from Rank 11 decided to speed hack on land at faster then god speed appearently even though everyone who fought him that day says he was near water and fought in the water.

yes.. no plot holes there huh.

So what really happened?

CSR most likely witnessed him swimming ontop of the water at 100%, suspended him for speedhacking, where they viewed the logs and determined its not possible to move at 100% speed while low on health (Their magical anti cheat technology? yea right, all they do is check over logs, they have zero technology involved in it) So they banned him.

Problem is they didn't know about this bug, Its been in the game since NF and they've ignored it alway up until now (Do like how they made him seem dirty of using this in the herald post, and even stated it was to be fixed next version like it was already going to be, when it fact they moved it up on the list according to Sanya vnboard post)

Now what you have is people going to the boards, pointing out that the CSR in questions wrongly banned a player and know absolutely shit about the game.

So whats Mythics reaction, make up a story about banning speedhackers all this weekend and claim that he was moving faster then god speed.

Fact is they got caught being retards, and are trying to cover it up.

 

[rure]

I am sure everything you said is true, but it still their word versus yours. There is no way for us to know if he actually cheated or not. Some people just prefer to believe mythic and some believe the players.

 

[Thorwyn]

Thanks for your side of the story.
Some questions in return...

1. Did you deliberately and knowingly exploit the water bug?

2. What´s the matter with the seven day suspension being turned into a perma ban? I don´t quite get that part.. did they first give you a 7 day suspension for bug abusing, THEN changed it to a perma ban for speedhacking?

3. How do you know what technology they have/don´t have for analysing the serverlogs?

 

[Xsorus-Merlin]

"Thanks for your side of the story.
Some questions in return..."

I'm not ciliviel

"1. Did you deliberately and knowingly exploit the water bug?"

I'd do it in a heart beat, They chose to leave the bug in the game for 2 years now, At this point till they fix it, it would be considered a feature of the game, At some point you have to stop blaming players for the developers mistake, and I think anything past 1 year is pretty good area to start. Second, They don't ban for exploiting bugs, otherwise quite a few people would be removed who play Bainshee's. Hell they even said on the herald that its a bug issue.

"2. What´s the matter with the seven day suspension being turned into a perma ban? I don´t quite get that part.. did they first give you a 7 day suspension for bug abusing, THEN changed it to a perma ban for speedhacking?"

They give you a 7 day suspension while they go over the logs and see if you actually obeyed the rules.


"3. How do you know what technology they have/don´t have for analysing the serverlogs?"

Okie going to let you in how this works.

A. How they catch radar users, error logging.. For a while if you crashed while I believe it was closing the radar window before the game or something it'd crash your DAOC and send your error log to them in which case they'd ban you, That is why their are fewer and fewer bannings of radar users today, Because the way radar works has changed to not include this screw up.

B. Speedhacking works in a similar way, They can't actually detect speedhack unless it does a few certain things - Makes you go so fast you litterly crash in game, or makes you go so fast that its easily detectable by viewing logs.

Thats how they catch speedhackers, If they see you warping everywhere at super fast speeds, They don't even bother checkin them, they just flat out ban you.

But in cases where people have turned their speed hack down they go over the logs and see how "fast" you were going at the time.

If they see in the logs that you're moving at 100% speed while at 5% health, that sets of a flag that you're cheating.

Problem is thats how it currently is only when you're ontop of the water, It doesn't occur anywhere else in the game.

For a CSR who doesn't know about this bug, This would appear to be speedhacking.

How do I know they cannot detect speedhack? Because its quite simple, I've talked with people who run it and radar, and these people get reported for the latter all the damn time, Hell I've even reported them (In which case I get the we're currently investigating the matter box)

They're not banned, Why is this? Because they're not stupid with it.

Hell even Sanya herself said she poured over the logs today and thats why she's "pissed"

 

[WullieTheRed]

To be quite honest, I dont see why they would ban a customer out of spite. I mean, that makes no sense at all... unless of course they are all just a bunch of 13 year old kids... which I seriously doubt. The way I see it, the guy was cheating, got caught, and decided to whine about it because he knew lots of people would jump on the 'omg Mythic are so clueless' bandwagon.

If he was an unknown rr1 guy, I also wonder how many people would jump on his side?

All Cheaters should be shot at dawn.

 

[tierk]

All Cheaters should be shot at dawn.

 

[AngelHeal]

assuming that hes telling the thruth./

he has been bug abusing, and spoiling the game for others.

/ban

they didd, for 8 days..

now to perma bann him is a bit much..

 

[Javai]

A. Ciliviel only fights near the water so he can kite

And that is exactly why he may find a lack of sympathy around here - in other words he only fights where he knows there's a bug to abuse to win?

 

[Argante]

GG Mythic..

Mythic just banned their own ignorance. Its a bug they didnt bother(or is too stupid) to fix even when Civi appealed it. What the fuck was he supposed to do?, just sit down or die instead of surfacing or jump into the water and try to get away?. lolplz

U absolutely right.
The ppl that posts here defending mythic r lame.
Mythic didnt fix the bug, their problem.
AND NEVER in the world that guy deserved perma ban for that.

 

[WullieTheRed]

So why do you think they banned him Argante?

 

[rure]

And that is exactly why he may find a lack of sympathy around here - in other words he only fights where he knows there's a bug to abuse to win?

OR it is because all the good spots for stealther fights are around places there are water in the proximity. For example, docks, bridges and drop offs.

 

[Lethul]

And that is exactly why he may find a lack of sympathy around here - in other words he only fights where he knows there's a bug to abuse to win?

that post is written by something that is so stupid, if I took its tiny brain and rolled it down the edge of a razor blade, it would be like a lone car going down a six lane highway. you should offer your posting style to hospital operating theatres as a highly-effective alternative to unconsciousness-inducing medications.