[RANT] BW are balanced!

Discussion in 'Warhammer' started by Belgerath, Oct 24, 2008.

  1. Roo Stercogburn

    Roo Stercogburn Resident Freddy

    Aye a few people on Dest side have commented they get more RP solo, so it was probably for that.
     
  2. Tallen

    Tallen Fledgling Freddie

    I have seen the same thing happening recently, i asked a WL why he went solo and his answer was that the order healers never healed him so he felt he might as well play solo. His reply was to the effect that if they can't be bothered to care about him, he didn't see any reason to cloud his fun trying to protect them. Had a similar reply from a BW, a sorc and a WE.

    I also spoke with a WP who decided to play solo because then he could concentrate on healing individuals who were contributing to the overall goals of the scenario instead of being distracted by the general mass of rp horny munchkins who, when grouped, have to be chased all over the map to be kept alive. I agreed with his reasoning as he was soloing to try and best help win the scenario for his team.
     
  3. Hawkwind

    Hawkwind FH is my second home FH Subscriber

    Was in TA a few times Sat afternoon and one sorc kept solo'in which is fine. They just just don't get any heals.
     
  4. Muylaetrix

    Muylaetrix Can't get enough of FH

    i know one thing as a sorc, if i`m not grouped with healers, i do like 30k damage in a scenario and if i`m grouped with at least 1 half decent healer i can easely do 100k damage in a scenario.

    joining a scenario and seeing for the FIFTH time in a row there is no healer in your group doesn`t really motivate.

    on the other side there are a `few` healers out ther who do a great job keeping people alive who they are not grouped with.
     
  5. Marc

    Marc FH is my second home

    I always solo in scenarios. After all, all they are for is helping you to level. XP is so much better solo as a BW.
     
  6. Hawkwind

    Hawkwind FH is my second home FH Subscriber

    Marc, Your the last person on these boards I expected to roll a FOTM BW!!! ;)

    BTW England were atrocious yesterday, seen school boys with better handling, decision making and defensive skills. They were just as bad against Somoa but scrapped that one. If that's the best Rugby League can do I wonder why they even bother turning up. After all the hype it was a massive let down. Was actually quite shocking to see just how bad they are. Is this a result of the abundance of Southern Hemisphere players now in Super League?

    On topic, on DoK I like it when BW's run solo, they usually do themselves more damage than me.
     
  7. Jaberwocky

    Jaberwocky Loyal Freddie

    Well in the northen hemisphere the big money's in Union, hence League's been suffering from a talent shortage as players convert for the larger pay packets.

    Still you can't say League's rolling over without a fight, the franchise they've set up here in South Wales is going strong.
     
  8. Marc

    Marc FH is my second home

    Its WE's I hate!!! What a stupid class. Comes to something when a WE 6 levels lower than me can jump me and kill me before I even get fire cage or stop drop and roll off!!

    As for the rugby, it was gash. There was just no aggression. As for being the best it can offer, i can name you 20 english players who would get in to the rugby union England national squad.
     
  9. Chronictank

    Chronictank FH is my second home

    I join a grp, ask who is the main assist
    If noone responds i say i will take the role, still no responce i will change grps as at the end of the day i will do better on my own than in a group who are intent on soloing
    It's as simple as that
     
  10. Hawkwind

    Hawkwind FH is my second home FH Subscriber


    On topic, yeah WE's hit hard but even as a DoK with 5.4k hp at lvl 31 I've had WH's drop me 50% before I have time to even react. Was no different in DAOC with Stealth Classes there dropping casters in 1 to 3 hits. Same for both sides. TBH there has to be something to counter the glass cannons which BW's and Sorc's are. At least as BW you have the option of staying back at nuke range and just insta dot everything in sight.

    ----------------------

    On rugby agreed they had no aggression, looked tired and were completely out of ideas. Also, the decision making was awful. I really hope there are 20 players back home who are better because it was the worst display of rugby I've seen in years.
     
  11. Umilard

    Umilard Loyal Freddie

    Amen to that, the teamleader thing was retarded. The minstrel TL as an example didn't know shit about how to play a minstrel and only listened to the lousy ones whining.

    I thought minstrel was balanced as it was but they added higher level dds, ablative, longer duration stun and climb wall becouse the teamleader thought it was a good idea.
     
  12. Turamber

    Turamber FH is my second home

    Wish there was an easy way to identify non-grouped DPS'ers and blackmark them. They can rot in hell before I'd put a single hot on them. Admittedly most of my healing is with a group based heal but I will generally drop hots on the wizzies and other people I see outside of my group.

    Might have to rethink that now.
     
  13. AngelHeal

    AngelHeal Part of the furniture


    If only you'd read the post, instead of looking at the words.

    If you'd told me a blue flower is blue, and i said, a red flower is red.. I dont need to explain why your flower is blue, and mine red..

    aka. BW is not overpowerd/unbalanced. if they are, all classes are.. especially sorcerer.
     
  14. Shike

    Shike Can't get enough of FH

    Use squared. You see who is in what group and only heal those in groups. Thats what I do when I play my zealot. I dont heal anyone outside of the two maingroups (unless there are more than twelve and a third group is made) and if someone go solo in a group instead of joining I just tell them that if they want a heal, they better join a group and contribute instead of only caring about themselves. I've actually had solos whine at me for not healing/rezzing them, it's quite funny :) I just tell them to group if they want help from others and then they go apemode for some weird reason.
     
  15. Jupitus

    Jupitus Old and short, no wonder I'm grumpy! Staff member Moderator FH Subscriber

    So, if you see a WE popping on the bauble carrier and taking a battering whilst doing their damndest to get the carrier down, do you throw in some heals or not whether in your group or not? What I mean is, for the team, isn't it those making an effort that should get the healing?
     
  16. Boggy

    Boggy Fledgling Freddie

    That's how it should be, but if one person is specifically soloing to try to make RPs at the expense of the team, I'd quite happily not heal them.

    The root of this problem is that some people are basically anti-social. However, the solution is just to give RPs in a way that doesn't encourage selfish behaviour. It's a team-based multiplayer game. Even ignoring actual game mechanics, selfish attitudes make the game that bit less fun.
     
  17. Tallen

    Tallen Fledgling Freddie

    This is the issue. Really they should help regardless of the reward they might or might not personally recieve for that single act, especially when it's something that can contribute to the overall win for your side. IMO, speaking as a downtrodden and abused healer, i will always lend assistance as and when i can, but it's always going to be the group who come first unless it's a really important intervention whereby the group must unfortunately suffer for the greater good.

    Personal call tbh and often the healer simply won't see the problem and be able to help-out ungrouped members in time.
     
  18. Ctuchik

    Ctuchik FH is my second home

    or theres so many fucking BW's in the scenarios assisting eachother, that the few poor melee'ers that dare come into range gets insta killed. having support or not have very little to do with it if theres 5+ BW's around.

    last scenarios i played before giving up there was about half BW's half anything else on order. our healers usually ended up with over 150 - 200k healed EACH and we still got permafarmed at our spawn. it went so far that our team started to get booted from the idle debuff (that no matter what you do dont go away unless you leave the spawn area) because there was no way of getting down from there without getting incinerated.


    BW's ARE overpowered, the sheer fucking numbers of them playing would be enough evidence for anyone, but aparently not.

    the only think dest has that can actually get rid of them fast enough are the Magus (but only at later levels), and evidently on this forum BW's are cryng their sad little hearts out because they actually die from them.

    i never thought i'd say this but compared to this game, AoC's pvp seems well thought out and properly planned.....
     
  19. Dre@d

    Dre@d Fledgling Freddie

    So the fact that there's lots of bw's makes em overpowered?:> okeh okeh, today i played in a scenario and there was 5 engineers, and well.. i think they're far from being OP, YES the BW dmg is pretty awsome, and YES any melee would be insta-pwned when there's 4 or 5 assisting on him ( HINT HERE ) no matter what class the 4 or 5 are, and i think, lots of ppl can agree, not only the ppl playing the bw's, that the chaos rift and magnet abilities ( u see, both sides ) is quite overpowered, sad thing is, if magus dont goes that expect, its a pretty crap class as far as i know, engineer aint that bad cause still got some ( not much ) other viable specs if im not wrong.

    As i said in another post, yes BW needs to be "toned down" a bit ( like playing with fire doing only 1 tick dmg to the hiler, some cap on stacking dots, or make the dot cure to cure all dots and increase its cooldown timer, well i dunno ) but in any scenario, if u see 4 or 5 sorcs, u only need 2 or 3 of them to take down targets pretty fast assisting each other, and i wouldnt call em overpowered.

    I really hope that, when bw's gets "toned down" and the new tank class in order gets on, we'll see some more tanks in order side, cause till now, i barely see any order tank in scenarios, while i see like 3 or 4 tanks in destru in every scenario or ORVR, and ofc, i wouldnt call tanks OP :D
     
  20. Turamber

    Turamber FH is my second home

    It is not "evidence" at all. Order have two caster classes, and one is a poncy elf who is supposed to heal and debuff too. People who want to play a DPS caster class have -one- choice.

    It also happens to be a human class, which also increases the player base that it appeals to.

    Personally I hated the look of the class. Red headed step children wearing skirts who kill themselves 50% of the time, and survive for micro seconds once the Destruction tanks get within reach of them.
     
  21. Xandax

    Xandax Loyal Freddie

    The sheer number of Destruction players must mean the faction as a whole is overpowered.
    Nerf Destruction.
     
  22. Roo Stercogburn

    Roo Stercogburn Resident Freddy

    The number of people playing BWs doesn't mean its overpowered. However, it is an indicator that it bears closer attention.

    I remember a comment from one of the team leads or devs back when most of us played DAoC that they acknowledged that the sheer number of people choosing to play Infiltrators gave a heads up that something was, as they said, "too good" about the class.

    Lets face it, for all people whine about what a Magus can do, you don't see people flocking to play it.

    Bright Wizards offer what many will consider a rewarding gaming experience because you kill lots of stuff and get lots of reward for it. Now before someone goes posting one of those endless screenshots of BWs getting less RP than others, bear in mind that most of them are farming the same people over and over again and getting reduced reward for it. Massive DPS results at the end of a scenario, less RP reward.
     
  23. Boggy

    Boggy Fledgling Freddie

    It does? You think Mythic were counting on more dwarves and elves signing up to play their own races?
     
  24. Jupitus

    Jupitus Old and short, no wonder I'm grumpy! Staff member Moderator FH Subscriber


    Well I don't play a dwarf!!!

    (Thought I'd better say it before someone else did!) :D
     
  25. Hufner

    Hufner Fledgling Freddie

    Just because you're old, doesn't make you a dwarf?
    And undead isn't an option in this game...
     
  26. Shike

    Shike Can't get enough of FH

    I have actually never ever seen that happen though :) Not soloers trying to get the most bang for the buck XPwise/Renownwise. And for the team sure, if you are IN the team, working with the team for the objective. Those who do that tend to be in groups and recieve heals. Its up to healers too imo, many healers ignore WE's for some weird reason, I do my very best to keep them up the best I can instead since i know how important they are and I usually tend to open up a dialog with them aswell letting them know I do my best to keep them up and 99% of them actually become happy over it and take more part in the team after that. It swings two ways, it always does. A solocaster though, just sneaking behind the tanks/healers etc and trying to maximise (sp?) their XP/renown, I just let them die even if I can save them and when they whine I explain why.

    The whole rewardsystem is borked up and I think Mythic need to do something about it very very quick before people alienate themselves even more, grouping should be rewarding. Going off the grid and actively trying to get the most out of the system just because its possible should be rewarding too, just less rewarding.
     
  27. Hawkwind

    Hawkwind FH is my second home FH Subscriber

    The number of them is a problem but the main issue is the fact that they can run up to nuke distance and waggle their arms and 2 secs later your taking 1k+ damage a tick. The DoTs should not all be Insta's. As keeps getting pointed out Sorc's do alot of damage to. However, to do that they have to be alot closer and on 3 sec casts. That in essence is the issue. Watching BW's in Serpents last night run up 3 shakes of the hand and run back. 3 or 4 of them and the healers can't keep up with it. The DoT's need addressing. Make 1 insta - same as Sorc and others on cast timer. Hardly nerfed but a hell of a lot more balanced.

    To repeat Insta and Range is the issue not just how many there are. The numbers are due to easymode playstyle imo. Bit like Whorecocks in DAOC. Valk and WL get created, 100 times as many WL's simply because the were totally OP.
     
  28. Muylaetrix

    Muylaetrix Can't get enough of FH

    yesterday in serpents coast i saw 4-5 bright wizards using a tactic that reminds me of a cantabrian circle. Cantabrian circle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    a bunch of bws who were running in a circle, staying out of range 50 % of the time and then poppin in range to throw a bunch of dots before running out of range again, while never stopping with moving.

    i found it almost impossible to counter with my slow casting spells which prevented me almost the whole time of landing more than 2 spells in a row on the same target.

    i`m not complaining about BW damage, i`m just complaining about how much they can do `on the run` compared to sorcs who, if they want to dish out good dps, have to remain stationary for prolonged time.
     
  29. Pandemic

    Pandemic Fledgling Freddie

    When (if lol) the Realm War for Europe page goes live are you still going to think BW's are overpowered if on your server there isnt a single one in the highest of all time 20 renown earners on order and only 1 or 2 in the top 50 ?

    I have no idea as to the actual figures for Europe but isnt it a bit hard to know how OP a class is without any realm renown chart?

    All the people that like to play OP classes are just going to look at this page and re roll those classes that consistently have the highest renown, and from the US realm war page BW are not one of those classes
     
  30. klasa

    klasa Loyal Freddie

    Good point. I think destruction has several mirror classes that are stronger in compariosn with the order mirror class. Yet they cry about the BW.

    I will only listen to a BW nerf when the destructionplayers crying for it suggest a nerf on one of their own classses.
     

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