[RANT] BW are balanced!

[Pandemic]

I would have thought that you should use renown rank to determine which are the most OP classes. Thats after all the whole point of the game. Not sure on Europe as we dont have a full system up yet, but its on the us servers and its reasonably obvious from there which classes are leading or not

 

[Chronictank]

never saw any other class than bw represented by 5+ players in a scenario , that atleast gives people a unique opportunity to decide for themselves if they feel they are op

range rules all in scenarios in terms of safe rp gain, it is not a wonder that people are rolling ranged classes

In a game where the main focus is seige warfare why be melee when you can nuke/shoot of walls? or aoe for max rp gain

In addition to this order have no real high dps melee classes (comparitively speaking) we have great defence classes but no dedicated dmg dealers (bar wh which is a rogue not a dps tank)

 

[Xandax]

never saw any other class than bw represented by 5+ players in a scenario , that atleast gives people a unique opportunity to decide for themselves if they feel they are op

I've seen Witch Elves, Sorcerers, Mauraders, Shamans, Black Orcs .... my guess is that you just notice the BWs more then the others. But yes - the BW is played by many.

However the sheer number of BWs does not "proove" anything other then the Order classes aren't offering people as much interest as the BW does. Many people express that the Order classes are "boring", "bland" or some even start calling classes "gay".

If you want to play a non-healing caster, you only have one choice. Destruction have two.

If you want to play high DPS class, we comparative only have one. The Witch Hunter and the White Lion are sub par compared to the Destruction ones. The Bright Wizard has reputation of being more powerful then the Sorcerers, thus it will get "fotm" rerollers.

If you want to play human (or perhaps do not want to be elf or dwarf, but "have" to be Order) - you have the choice between healer, rogue or the Bright Wizard. Human have no tanks on Order, and I'm sure we're feeling that in the numbers of BWs.


Also no doubt that many whines cause people to roll it either for the heck of it, to see what it is about - or perhaps people got tired of being steam rolled by perceived overpowered Destruction classes and wanted to roll a high damage class.

All these things are amongst factors for why the BW is (over)played by many people.

A high population class does not equate "overpoweredness" by any logic train of thought.

 

[dub]

range rules all in scenarios in terms of safe rp gain, it is not a wonder that people are rolling ranged classes

In a game where the main focus is seige warfare why be melee when you can nuke/shoot of walls? or aoe for max rp gain

In addition to this order have no real high dps melee classes (comparitively speaking) we have great defence classes but no dedicated dmg dealers (bar wh which is a rogue not a dps tank)

i didnt mention safe rp or siege warfare or how people perceive whitelions , i just noted that luckily there are so many bw's that noone has to rely on hearsay but can instead form their own opion

 

[Xandax]

i didnt mention safe rp or siege warfare or how people perceive whitelions , i just noted that luckily there are so many bw's that noone has to rely on hearsay but can instead form their own opion

Whether the opinion is based on factual or biased foundation, is another matter

 

[dub]

I've seen Witch Elves, Sorcerers, Mauraders, Shamans, Black Orcs .... my guess is that you just notice the BWs more then the others. But yes - the BW is played by many.

However the sheer number of BWs does not "proove" anything other then the Order classes aren't offering people as much interest as the BW does. Many people express that the Order classes are "boring", "bland" or some even start calling classes "gay".

If you want to play a non-healing caster, you only have one choice. Destruction have two.

If you want to play high DPS class, we comparative only have one. The Witch Hunter and the White Lion are sub par compared to the Destruction ones. The Bright Wizard has reputation of being more powerful then the Sorcerers, thus it will get "fotm" rerollers.

If you want to play human (or perhaps do not want to be elf or dwarf, but "have" to be Order) - you have the choice between healer, rogue or the Bright Wizard. Human have no tanks on Order, and I'm sure we're feeling that in the numbers of BWs.


Also no doubt that many whines cause people to roll it either for the heck of it, to see what it is about - or perhaps people got tired of being steam rolled by perceived overpowered Destruction classes and wanted to roll a high damage class.

All these things are amongst factors for why the BW is (over)played by many people.

A high population class does not equate "overpoweredness" by any logic train of thought.

you would have a point if i anywhere claimed that x population of y equals OP , but i didnt , i merely stated all has a nice chance to amke up their own mind.

im sorry that you think your dorf looks .. what is it you call it ? happy ? , but personally i never cared much about looks.

im sorry that you perceive order dps to be lackluster (wether its real or imagined)

why quote me and go on this longvinded tale that has nothing to do with what i posted ?

 

[Xandax]

you would have a point if i anywhere claimed that x population of y equals OP , but i didnt , i merely stated all has a nice chance to amke up their own mind.

im sorry that you think your dorf looks .. what is it you call it ? happy ? , but personally i never cared much about looks.

im sorry that you perceive order dps to be lackluster (wether its real or imagined)

why quote me and go on this longvinded tale that has nothing to do with what i posted ?

I never said that you claimed it. I used your anecdotal evidence regarding numbers as a foundation to tackle one of the usual arguments people put forth when people claim the class is overpowered.
Thus - I quoted you. No need to get paranoid or defensive because I respond to you, and go on a "long winded tale"

 

[Sharkith]

If you want to play high DPS class, we comparative only have one. The Witch Hunter and the White Lion are sub par compared to the Destruction ones.

White Lion has one of the higest DPS in the game when played right.

Witchunter has a lot more utility in terms of interrupts and general all round abilities. Like I said above its about a class being fit for purpose.

Most Order classes are more rounded than destruction - I have tried both and in fact as far as I can see destruction classes are for the most part not quite rounded out.

Shark

 

[dub]

I never said that you claimed it. I used your anecdotal evidence regarding numbers as a foundation to tackle one of the usual arguments people put forth when people claim the class is overpowered.
Thus - I quoted you. No need to get paranoid or defensive because I respond to you, and go on a "long winded tale"

please feel free to quote me whenever your gonna talk about "any usual argument" that i didnt put forth , doesnt confuse me a bit , not the sligthest , no sir ...

 

[Shike]

anyone wanna bet against me when I say BW will be toned down in 1.1 though? I'd say its a pretty safe bet that it will be. Regardless of what brightwizards say.

I think that putting the DoT's on channeling and make em not stack would be quite enough, PWF would need alittle modification aswell since its a quite silly ability. Hopefully Mythic doesnt overdo it totally

(from what I understand there was a very very active guy in beta who promoted BW tremendeously while Sorc for example had nearly no promotor at all, explains abit I think, the info about it is in some thread on WHA, dont remember which one.)

 

[Reno]

If they started with making hex/curse/ailment cures removing all instead of just one effect, PWF not proccing on every tick of a HOT ( but only 1 or the initial tick) and with proper immunity timers for CC, it would sure make a good start.
Any adjustments made after that might not have to be so big.

Danita

 

[Muylaetrix]

Copy and paste job straight from homepage description of BW:

" YOU will be the Empire’s greatest weapon! A Pyromancer! Your fire will incinerate the enemy, and purge the unclean! Do not! Be late! For class!"

Interpret how you want.

not much changed for you then since daoc

Burn the mofos

 

[Muylaetrix]

If you want to play a non-healing caster, you only have one choice. Destruction have two.

i wonder if you can technically call an engineer a caster...

i have played both in beta and appart from the completely different graphics, they play the same way... they are mirrors.

 

[Muylaetrix]

anyone wanna bet against me when I say BW will be toned down in 1.1 though? I'd say its a pretty safe bet that it will be. Regardless of what brightwizards say.

I think that putting the DoT's on channeling and make em not stack would be quite enough, PWF would need alittle modification aswell since its a quite silly ability. Hopefully Mythic doesnt overdo it totally

(from what I understand there was a very very active guy in beta who promoted BW tremendeously while Sorc for example had nearly no promotor at all, explains abit I think, the info about it is in some thread on WHA, dont remember which one.)

in beta there was a tactic that made sorcs (all DE`s in fact, it was a racial tactic) hit for 50 % more damage... it balanced things out with BWs who have a dot line that outperforms the mirror line of the sorc by a fair degree, but the tactic got dumped and we got `bathing in blood` instead. imho, this nerf to dark elfs just before release was maybe justifyable for the other dark elf classes, but made the sorc slightly less good than the BW.

 

[Tallen]

i wonder if you can technically call an engineer a caster...

i have played both in beta and appart from the completely different graphics, they play the same way... they are mirrors.

Archmage can be played as a caster as well

 

[swifteagle]

Archmage can be played as a caster as well

Don't tell them that its hard enough getting any healers on order as it is at least on the server I play on

 

[Boggy]

Most of the examples given here Peat are GG's against a disorganised zerg. So they are not good examples especially to go calling for a class nerf.

I also think people often confuse tactical advantage with being overpowered. In many of the situations that BW and other casters are seen as being especially overpowered people are simply encountering them at their best and of course when at their best they really do a lot of damage.

Now take a class that has a high DPS and place it at range and see a tank or other melee class try to kill it and it is not going to happen. Take the same class drop it in a situation where its tactical advantage is wiped out (no range and no ability to target i.e. against a stealthed opponent) where it has to go toe to toe against another class that if it is played well that person can tip the tables.

For a class to be overpowered it has to find itself 95% of the time in a winning position - despite the tactical situation. With Mages in WAR I have yet to see one that is tactically overpowered to that extent. Sorry but thats how it is.

Finally as far as I can see this is a classic case of people arguing that all classes should be equal. All classes are not equal. Some are more equal than others. Not all classes should be equal. Its about purpose and if the class is fit for purpose.

This is a very different thing to claiming that a class is overpowered.

Nat

I find that a funny way of looking at it, Shark, for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, there's no contextualisation of "tactical advantage". What if the tactical advantage where a particular class shines occurs more frequently (or is easier to make happen) than the tactical advantage of another class. One could argue that standing at the back of your own group unobtrusively (ranged DPS strong tactic) is easier than trying to wade to the back of the opposing group to find squishies (melee DPS strong tactic).

Secondly, why do you have to get to 95% win rate unadvantaged to be OP? Surely anything over a 50% win rate is OP and from then upwards it's a matter of degree?

Talking about win rates is a bit dubious anyway, I think, since this is not 1v1. Better to talk about impact on battle in my opinion.

 

[Xandax]

anyone wanna bet against me when I say BW will be toned down in 1.1 though? I'd say its a pretty safe bet that it will be. Regardless of what brightwizards say.

I think that putting the DoT's on channeling and make em not stack would be quite enough, PWF would need alittle modification aswell since its a quite silly ability. Hopefully Mythic doesnt overdo it totally

(from what I understand there was a very very active guy in beta who promoted BW tremendeously while Sorc for example had nearly no promotor at all, explains abit I think, the info about it is in some thread on WHA, dont remember which one.)

It is very possible that the class will be nerfed -whether it is needed or not, and whether they'll target the Sorcerer at the same time or not.
Simply because of the amount of people who complain on the most played factions side it is a very realistic scenario. It is too large a player segment to risk loosing to other games because they loose some fights in-game.

 

[Tallen]

It is very possible that the class will be nerfed -whether it is needed or not, and whether they'll target the Sorcerer at the same time.
Simply because of the amount of people who complain on the most played factions side. It is too large a segment to "risk loosing" because they loose some fights in-game.

I can see what you are saying and it is something which happens a lot in mmo's, again DAoC was a prime example of how not to balance and nerf classes based on the playerbase feedback.

In all honesty if they cork the BW, they have to dumb-down WE's and Marauders as well, both of which and are easier to play than their mirrors and slightly outperform them because of this. In the same vein arguably the Magus could use some loving and the RP could use a make-over so all it's armour doesn't look painted-on making it look like a joke compared to it's mirror, the Zealot, which looks awesome, but things never work this way.

 

[Xandax]

I can see what you are saying and it is something which happens a lot in mmo's, again DAoC was a prime example of how not to balance and nerf classes based on the playerbase feedback.
<snip>

Indeed. We do know from DAoC that Mythic did at times go overboard with the "balancing" and a lot of it was apparently because it came from large segment players. Sure classes might need balancing, but I do fear somewhat that Mythic falls into the "overboard" category once more. They have said they carry statistics, I just hope those statistics get used correct and not just "this class does X damage" while ignoring all other factors as to what/why it happens.

I guess we'll see. The "big patch" will be a huge indicator of how Mythic will handle the community's "comments".
I also think it'll make or break the game for a number of players - especially if they just react to the squeaky wheel.

 

[Shike]

It is very possible that the class will be nerfed -whether it is needed or not, and whether they'll target the Sorcerer at the same time or not.
Simply because of the amount of people who complain on the most played factions side it is a very realistic scenario. It is too large a player segment to risk loosing to other games because they loose some fights in-game.

I think both mentioned classes are in need of a slight adjustment since I find them too easy to play successfully in comparison to the other archetypes Simple as that.

 

[exponentiaL]

Just make dots 2 sec cast like caba's 'n sorcs, problem solved.

 

[Shike]

I can see what you are saying and it is something which happens a lot in mmo's, again DAoC was a prime example of how not to balance and nerf classes based on the playerbase feedback.

In all honesty if they cork the BW, they have to dumb-down WE's and Marauders as well, both of which and are easier to play than their mirrors and slightly outperform them because of this. In the same vein arguably the Magus could use some loving and the RP could use a make-over so all it's armour doesn't look painted-on making it look like a joke compared to it's mirror, the Zealot, which looks awesome, but things never work this way.

If they fuxor the BW up totally then yea, we have a problem. I dont think they will do that though. DAoC had parameters that doesnt exist in WAR at all, I sometimes felt as if Mythic wanted to shaft some classes when they brought out the nerfbat too, some "fixes" they did sure as hell wasnt balanced at least and I think a part as to why was the IDIOTconcept with teamleaders. I thank the gamingods that they doesnt reuse that concept again and I hope they never will. One of DAoCs flaws was the multitude of classes, WAR doesnt have that problem at least, hopefully that makes it easier for Mythic to balance things better than they did with DAoC.

 

[aika]

Just make dots 2 sec cast like caba's 'n sorcs, problem solved.

give me a nuke then

 

[Boggy]

Just out of interest is anyone, people who think BWs OP, not OP, BWs AND Sorcs are OP, not OP, etc etc saying they think this is having a huge impact on the game?

I suspect both BWs and Sorcs need a tweak, but I wouldn't say I've noticed huge problems resulting from current balance. They do a bit more than they should, and the usual easy-moders are therefore rolling them, but they are not actually changing scens in any meaningful way for me.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Bright Wizards are performing exactly as intended - they are getting rp horny kids to play Order, leaving the rest of us in peace. Yes, there are a few good players that have rolled BWs, but mainly its just rp muppets. Its a hoot getting them to kill themselves in scenarios though more often than not the sheer number of people playing the class in scenarios can outweigh anything we can throw against them.

They will not be nerfed for quite some time if you consider their job to be convincing people to play as Order

 

[AngelHeal]

Bright Wizards are performing exactly as intended - they are getting rp horny kids to play Order, leaving the rest of us in peace. Yes, there are a few good players that have rolled BWs, but mainly its just rp muppets. Its a hoot getting them to kill themselves in scenarios though more often than not the sheer number of people playing the class in scenarios can outweigh anything we can throw against them.

They will not be nerfed for quite some time if you consider their job to be convincing people to play as Order

right coz a sorcerer cant do dmg..

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

right coz a sorcerer cant do dmg..

While you quote me you don't answer anyhing in the post. Its just a random snotty comment for internet win

 

[Boggy]

Bright Wizards are performing exactly as intended - they are getting rp horny kids to play Order, leaving the rest of us in peace. Yes, there are a few good players that have rolled BWs, but mainly its just rp muppets. Its a hoot getting them to kill themselves in scenarios though more often than not the sheer number of people playing the class in scenarios can outweigh anything we can throw against them.

They will not be nerfed for quite some time if you consider their job to be convincing people to play as Order

Had a BW in a scen earlier who changed group twice to be on his own. Not sure if this is something to do with trying to get more RPs? I assumed it was, so kep changing groups to follow him. Not for the RPs, but just to show I'd noticed.

 

[exponentiaL]

Had a BW in a scen earlier who changed group twice to be on his own. Not sure if this is something to do with trying to get more RPs? I assumed it was, so kep changing groups to follow him. Not for the RPs, but just to show I'd noticed.

If he was on his own he's a complete retard as he doesn't even have to join a group to get exp/renown solo. BWs and brains.