Ban against....

[Raven]

They should be replaced with superhero masks. At least they would be entertaining then.

 

[Job]

I'm against banning it. People should be allowed to wear what they like for chrissakes.

Digs out SS uniform for next Germany trip.


Let's face it , we want to ban them because we think they're a bunch of bacKward sheep who are still following
some fairy story from the dark ages.

Publicly announcing your idiotic belief, when people are using same beliefs to justify terrorists acts kinda
rubs us up the wrong way, if they can believe that bollocks then WTF can they be bullshitted to believe next?

 

[Lakih]

Digs out SS uniform for next Germany trip.

I should be able to travel Germany in an SS uniform if i wanted to. Just as i should be able to wear jeans and a t-shirt, or a motorcycle helmet, a mankini or a burka. It shouldn't be anyones business but mine.

However, if i walked into your business (shop) wearing a burka, a motorcycle helmet or any other piece of clothing you dont want to see in your shop then you should have the right to deny me service unless i removed said piece of clothing.

Also, if you would happen to be wearing a piece of consealing clothing and someone (with the proper authority) would ask you for ID then you would have to remove that piece of clothing without much fuss, sure you can ask for some privacy if its requested by your religion but it shouldnt be to inconvinient for any of the involved parties.... sitting on a curve for a few hours waiting for a female officer is imo an inconvinience and not ok.

ANY fully covered face wear should be banned in public. Dont care what it is, if you cant identify a person in that clothing then it shouldnt be allowed. I see it as a public safety matter, and hate the fact that they can walk through airports without ever revealing their face, as such you can not be sure they are who they are meant to be.

If it "religious, then they can wear it in their sinegogs or whatever, but outside of there it should not be allowed!

Ofcourse you should have to ID yourself at an airport, but other then that.. a pulic safety matter!? Safety? for whom?

I happend to catch a rather scary documentory about knife violence in the UK yesterday (made by a UK film maker), in one of the cases they brought up there was a man injured by an unprovoked knife attack by a person who just hours earlier had killed a man with the same knife, also unprovoked. CCTV showed the attacker wearing blue jeans and a white t-shirt... its not the clothes that makes you dangerous - it's your mind and your actions!

/rant

 

[old.Tohtori]

I should be able to travel Germany in an SS uniform if i wanted to. Just as i should be able to wear jeans and a t-shirt, or a motorcycle helmet, a mankini or a burka. It shouldn't be anyones business but mine.

However, if i walked into your business (shop) wearing a burka, a motorcycle helmet or any other piece of clothing you dont want to see in your shop then you should have the right to deny me service unless i removed said piece of clothing.

Actually, you should consider germany a big old shop that doesn't allow nazi outfits, if your second statement is to hold any water.

Or, if you think it's wrong that germany denies you wearing it, do you believe that people should be allowed to walk around the streets wearing "Paedophilia rocks!" t-shirts without it being anyones business?

I personally go by any law given, if burkas are banned, so be it. I don't have to agree with laws for me to abide by them. It is the law in germany, so be it. A guy walking in that paedo t-shirt would get a second look from me, but that would be where i would leave it. I believe in the statement "wear what you want", jsut checking how tolerant people would -really- be about it.

 

[Corran]

Ofcourse you should have to ID yourself at an airport, but other then that.. a pulic safety matter!? Safety? for whom?

Public safety, in the manner that if they break a law whilst wearing a full facial cover then you have no way of identifying the person as there no way to see them, you got just the eyes to go on, and a voice if your lucky... nothing of use in trying to identify them.

"Yes, the person had brown eyes! please go find them!"

I think when you in a public space you should be able to identify who this person is with a look. But that is just me.

Im all for wearing what you want, but I do not agree in allowing anyone to having full facial covering.. be it religious or just for the hell of it.

But that just me

 

[Lakih]

Actually, you should consider germany a big old shop that doesn't allow nazi outfits, if your second statement is to hold any water.

Or, if you think it's wrong that germany denies you wearing it, do you believe that people should be allowed to walk around the streets wearing "Paedophilia rocks!" t-shirts without it being anyones business?

I personally go by any law given, if burkas are banned, so be it. I don't have to agree with laws for me to abide by them. It is the law in germany, so be it. A guy walking in that paedo t-shirt would get a second look from me, but that would be where i would leave it. I believe in the statement "wear what you want", jsut checking how tolerant people would -really- be about it.

Ofcourse you have to follow the laws of the country I might not agree with the law but i would follow it. Laws of Disorderly Conduct included, so wearing a t-shirt with picture of an abused child and the text "paedo rox!" while in theory would be ok (freedom of speech etc) but would be offending and possibly against the law.

 

[Lakih]

Public safety, in the manner that if they break a law whilst wearing a full facial cover then you have no way of identifying the person as there no way to see them, you got just the eyes to go on, and a voice if your lucky... nothing of use in trying to identify them.

"Yes, the person had brown eyes! please go find them!"

I think when you in a public space you should be able to identify who this person is with a look. But that is just me.

Im all for wearing what you want, but I do not agree in allowing anyone to having full facial covering.. be it religious or just for the hell of it.

But that just me

So you wouldnt mind if they banned hoodies? I understand the problem of identifying criminals but there's alot more to go by but facial description.

"middle eastern looks, large nose and dark hair" isnt all that helpful to the police anyways

 

[old.Tohtori]

Public safety, in the manner that if they break a law whilst wearing a full facial cover then you have no way of identifying the person as there no way to see them, you got just the eyes to go on, and a voice if your lucky... nothing of use in trying to identify them.

"Yes, the person had brown eyes! please go find them!"

Then again, criminals tend to use the old "cover face" thing

Think you mean crimes of sudden violence.

 

[Thorwyn]

When the western countries invaded Iraq and found out that all the informations about weapons of mass destruction were false, they said "well, at least we brought them freedom! You know... freedom is important, because freedom is a basic human right".
So... we kinda like rescued them from the surpression and now they can walk around like they want to. Uhm.... ok, not *exactly* like they want to. We brought them the right to NOT wear burkas. And now we´re stripping them from their right to wear burkas.

 

[Ch3tan]

When the western countries invaded Iraq and found out that all the informations about weapons of mass destruction were false, they said "well, at least we brought them freedom! You know... freedom is important, because freedom is a basic human right".
So... we kinda like rescued them from the surpression and now they can walk around like they want to. Uhm.... ok, not *exactly* like they want to. We brought them the right to NOT wear burkas. And now we´re stripping them from their right to wear burkas.

well said.

 

[Corran]

When the western countries invaded Iraq and found out that all the informations about weapons of mass destruction were false, they said "well, at least we brought them freedom! You know... freedom is important, because freedom is a basic human right".
So... we kinda like rescued them from the surpression and now they can walk around like they want to. Uhm.... ok, not *exactly* like they want to. We brought them the right to NOT wear burkas. And now we´re stripping them from their right to wear burkas.

we aint stopping them wearing them in their own country (as you specifically talking about iraqi's) ... hell, they aint being stripped of it in the country of their religous origin either.

And Hoodies, if covering the face should face the same action that wearing a burka would. If you are in public and your face is not visable then action get taken, simple as.
Lakih, sometimes there people that actually aint useless are describing people and can actually give a decent account of what they seen beyond, "white, medium height, medium build, medium etc. And then you got the addition of the cctv that covers just about everywhere you ever step.

I have hoodies, plenty of them. But guess what, hood doesnt cover my face as it actually fits me and aint 10 sizes to big!

But hey, I dont make the laws and such a law aint gonna come to muslim central (britain)... and as such it doesnt matter.

 

[Thorwyn]

we aint stopping them wearing them in their own country (as you specifically talking about iraqi's) ... hell, they aint being stripped of it in the country of their religous origin either.

If there´s so much difference between "our" and "their" country, why the f*ck did we even bother going there? What kind of freedom did we bring them when they´re not allowed to practice and live that freedom wherever they want?

Either we ARE fighting for freedom (and that includes our countries as well), or we´re a bunch if hypocrites who are using the term "freedom" as a weak excuse for everything we want to do. You can not restrict it to national borders or anything. If I want to wear a burka tomorrow, it´s my goddamn right. And nobody, especially nobody who´s babbling about "freedom", has any right to tell me not to wear what I want to wear. It´s in our constitution, simple as that.

 

[tierk]

LOL always the same people spamming the same shit. I cannot remember at any time seeing a woman in a Burkha or a Niqab committing a crime, not even something stupid like spitting on the sidewalk. Yet here we are hearing the same crap arguments. Public safety, oh we should be able to identify them, what a load of rubbish.

The poor sods that wear the Niqab and Burkha actually get so much abuse from people with the same negative mindset as some of the people posting on here, in the street. In my time in London, I have seen them spat on, attacked and generally harassed - with no support from the authorities when the people committing the offences were apprehended either. It reached the point where if I caught up with a prick acting this way they would get a good kicking and sent on their way instead of calling the police.

Personally, I do not like the Niqab or Burkha for that matter, as I was brought up in a family that always looked on it as over the top. However, it does not mean I have a right to dismiss someone else’s belief, nor to take away their right to practice their religion, regardless of me liking disliking, agreeing or disagreeing with it.

People talk about cases of some women not being able to leave the house without a suitable companion if this law is implemented it will only make that situation even worse. At least they could go out wearing the Niqab before the law.

 

[Raven]

There are certain times and places that they should have to remove them, banks, schools, basically anywhere that you aren't allowed to wear a crash helmet, places where identification is necessary. Banning them is wrong though, if someone wants to wear one then they should be allowed to wear one. Personal freedom and all that.

 

[liloe]

I must say that this is a pretty controversial discussion. On the one hand people say that it's their right of religious freedom that allows them to wear full cover, but then again there are so many women who are being forced by their families to wear that stuff … so now there is the religious freedom here?

The basic question is: Can we forbid religious freedom in some areas to help enforce personal freedom for some?

And how far does religious freedom go when it comes to safety?
My ROW has been taking by fully covered women a lot where I live (lots of Muslims live here), so this is where my personal safety comes into play. If they crash into me, I don't give a shit about their right to wear whatever. If I drive around with a blindfold for religious reasons, then the police is gonna kick my ass kinda hard.

Instead of all the forbidding, there should be the right care for people from other cultures. We let them in and just throw them into a new culture. So of course they will stick together and this will create a melting pot of conflicts. What we need is cultural and language education for all strangers where they (and that goes especially for women) get told where they can seek help if they're feeling oppressed. It's a really hard situation, though. Imagine you live in a country where you don't know anybody except your family. Either you do what they want, or you're on your own.

 

[Chronictank]

I must say that this is a pretty controversial discussion. On the one hand people say that it's their right of religious freedom that allows them to wear full cover, but then again there are so many women who are being forced by their families to wear that stuff … so now there is the religious freedom here?

It's not really religious freedom, its personal freedom that is the issue here.
The only reason religion is even made the issue is because of the 'backward' members of this forum who want another pop at muslims/immigrants/religion in general or whatever hate figure is in the Sun nowadays
The fact of the matter is the vast majority of people who wear burka's will remove them when asked if security is at risk, when i visited Qatar they had a screen to a side where women were searched, and a separate queue for people who wanted to go there instead of the general ones (which were quicker). In fact i believe they have a screen on the side in Heathrow for this very reason, if someone gets past security wearing a burka it is because whoever is on the security desk hasn't done their job correctly..

And how far does religious freedom go when it comes to safety?
My ROW has been taking by fully covered women a lot where I live (lots of Muslims live here), so this is where my personal safety comes into play. If they crash into me, I don't give a shit about their right to wear whatever. If I drive around with a blindfold for religious reasons, then the police is gonna kick my ass kinda hard.

You mean a mask?, as for the police they could have just as easily (and probably did) given the woman that form where you have to take your liscence to the police office?, you do not have to carry a driving licence so it wouldn't have changed your situation at all

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's not illegal to drive with a race helmet on, so how would any other be a problem.

Obviously they see where they are going.

Not about freedom of religio9n but freedom to choose to follow a religion and it's teachings.

If i chose the religion of hippityscotchy and chose to follow ti's teaching of a afternoon drink of scotch, if it interfered with no one else (like clothing doesn't), it's my thing.

 

[tierk]

There are certain times and places that they should have to remove them, banks, schools, basically anywhere that you aren't allowed to wear a crash helmet, places where identification is necessary. Banning them is wrong though, if someone wants to wear one then they should be allowed to wear one. Personal freedom and all that.

I agree with pretty much all that you have said above. It is reasonable to expect at certain times to be able identify people. The only minor issue i have is the idea of in schools. I am assuming you are talking about the age of 7-14 (ish) by schools?

The reason i ask is because - correct me if i am wrong - it is not obligatory for young children to wear Hijab from a really early age and i am pretty sure that there is no exact age given for it to become obligatory (from a religious sense).

I also would expect that a person at the age of 16 would /should be able to make that decision for themselves and should therefore not be obliged, if they choose to wear one, to remove it in 6th form college for example.

Aside from this i think your post is spot on.

 

[Raven]

Well, I wasn't really thinking about the students tbh, more the parent collecting the children.

 

[tierk]

Well, I wasn't really thinking about the students tbh, more the parent collecting the children.

Why would that be a concern?

 

[BloodOmen]

Agree with what Raven said tbh, theres a time and place for them and if they refuse to remove them under certain circumstances people should have the power to remove them by force or ask them to leave (just like they would with helmets or halloween masks etc) touchy subject is touchy tho and if it does go ahead they will just scream racism anyway like they always do when people try to change things they don't like.

 

[Raven]

Why would that be a concern?

Simply because of the fact the teacher needs to identify that the correct person is taking the child, anyone could hide under a burka and the teacher would be none the wiser.

 

[Chronictank]

Simply because of the fact the teacher needs to identify that the correct person is taking the child, anyone could hide under a burka and the teacher would be none the wiser.

in the same sense anyone could turn up claiming to be a aunt/uncle/friend of the family

The child will know straight away they aren't who they say they are as they will grow up around it

 

[Lamp]

At my niece's nursery, when you register your kids there, you have to give them a photo of authorised picker-uppers. Anyone without a photo on their file is not allowed to collect the child no matter who they say they are

 

[Lamp]

French parliament votes to ban the burka - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[megadave]

How about a motorcycle helmet with your face printed on it?

Just like this

haha must spread rep, and it's reminded me to watch the new ep

Haha, almost sounds south park - despite the obvious vic reeves thang ;d

YouTube - If you don't like america, you can git out

 

[Zede]

Ban the ideology that indoctrinates these women into thinking its 'ok' to wear these hideous things in the first place. Human beings have free will, or should, it is what makes us human after all.

 

[Ezteq]

it really does not bother me at all what people want to wear for their own reasons, so long as they are happy to do it and it's their own choice so be it. I think banning peoples right to express themselves through clothing or personal style is actually more dangerous than someone wearing a face covering tbh.

One thing I think though from working with the public and I work with a lot of foriegn students who come in and sometimes when they are trying to explain something I get more udnerstanding about whether they understand me or if I am on the right track or not by their facial experissions than what they actually say (mainly because I have trouble hearing anyway and unconfident students tend to speak veeery quietly lol)

Mind you saying that, from the muslim women I have dealt with in previous jobs who wore the full face covering I did not have a problem because they spoke perfect English.


The only thing I do have a problem with is there is a guy down here who goes about dressed as a clown, he came to ask me something once when I worked at the supermarket and I ran away lol, I did warn them at the library that if he comes up to me there I will not serve him and will hide until he is gone...yes, I think they should ban clowns, I am not ashamed to admit it, I am a clownist!


am thinking of starting an anti-clown movement called the Ku Klux Klown...hmm maybe not!!

 

[Ezteq]

Ban the ideology that indoctrinates these women into thinking its 'ok' to wear these hideous things in the first place. Human beings have free will, or should, it is what makes us human after all.

On that token crocs should be banned, so should the vast amount of clothing designed for small people but worn by really big people, fake tans, french tipped manicures and corn rows on blondes.

Just because the ideology comes from fashion magazines rather than cultural/religious belief doesn't make it different, people (ok women in particular) will wear unattractive, impractical things for a number of reasons, I think wearing something impractical or unattractive for religious reasons is less marginally less silly (sorry, am an athiest but do respect religion...however I respect comfort more) than crippling yourself for the purpose of getting a shag Oo

I have to say I don't find the native tribal lip plates too appealing but its is their cultural ideology that leads them to thnk they are attractive accessories to be worn, what ever floats your boat tbh it's not hurting anyone else.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ban the ideology that indoctrinates these women into thinking its 'ok' to wear these hideous things in the first place. Human beings have free will, or should, it is what makes us human after all.

We should ban a lot more with that thinking.

Pokemons, those hole shoe things everyone seems to have, MMOs, smokes, drinks, weed, drugs etc etc.

Kids?