avalon

[Golena]

I've said it before & I'll say it again: I had many more flames from people for not adding or taking keeps than I've had for adding in all my DAoC time.

Your probably right.
If you look at who left the server over it i'd say that very few soloers left because people flamed them for not adding on someones fight, and the reverse might well be true of the newbies who got flamed for adding.

Neither side is right ofc, but if your looking at population lowering criteria, it's not just the frequency but the chances of it stopping someone logging on the next day.

 

[Zerubiel Propane]

If you people are worried about adding, getting added etc, then roll a caster or an archer.

Usually i just nuke everything within my range.
Except when i know my realm mate can handle it.

But its true.
If you add, people will call you adder,
if you don't, then people will call you x-realmer.

Its a lose lose situation, so why give a damn?

If you don't like, roll a stealther.

 

[Cromcruaich]

I think it's often slightly too easy to view abuse in the game as people yelling swear words. In many cases someone simply saying "nicely added" after a fight actually leaves a nastier feeling for a new player than getting a stream of abuse back where at least you can put it down to them simply being a foul mouthed idiot taking it too seriously (especially when it happens 80% of the time you attack something). Even if it didn't happen all the time in game, look at many of the FAO posts here and you'll see plenty of X is an adding mofo posts from many of the FG regulars. It's just as dishartning i'm sure to end a fun playing session, pop over here and find 12 people complaining you ruined their evening. I added the disclaimer in because i'm also aware that a large proportion of the 8v8 community didn't do it, in the same way that a large proportion of Albs have never stayed up until 4am to take a relic.

I feel your clutching at straws a bit here. And someone who gets truly offended by reading 'nicely added' really shouldnt be allowed to cross the road on their own, never mind use the internet.

Also, please point out the FAO posts from FG regulars. Links will do. Time when there were FAO posts from full groups was almost exclusively to do with other full groups and inter full group vendettas and nothing to do with the wider community. Also the fg faos died out about 1.5 to 2 years ago. If you think i'm incorrect on this then I await your proof.

In addition think FH and the whine actually provided a useful outlet, and the rivalries it actually generated were beneficial to the game - kept people playing, kept people keen to beat the protagonists - certainly did from my own experience - beating Synergy was so satisfying after the shit throwing on the boards.

I'd challenge you to provide an example of one person who left as a direct result of FH faos. As its something that is often cited, but frankly I think its complete rubbish, and will continue to do so until you meet this burden of proof.

 

[Cadelin]

I'd challenge you to provide an example of one person who left as a direct result of FH faos. As its something that is often cited, but frankly I think its complete rubbish, and will continue to do so until you meet this burden of proof.

I did.

 

[Gear]

Crom hit the nail i think (must spread some rep blah blah)

Like in a society where different worlds co-exist at the same time in which interaction between the members of different casts are kept to the minimum, the same thing applies in mmorps.

I could make a really long post involving socio-psychological theories about the whole issue but I gotta head out. Might pick up the task later on tho.

 

[Cromcruaich]

I did.

Which one(s)? Would like to know the FH fao that was the straw that broke the camels back for you.

And was it the solo fao whines or the full group fao ones?

If you dont back this up with evidence then looks to me like you are being flippant. Funny how its driven you out of the game, but not driven you out of the forum - would of expected you to leave the rvr forum rather than the game.

 

[Arethir]

certainly did from my own experience - beating Synergy was so satisfying after the shit throwing on the boards.

Haha yeah I remember when me and Sept had our fights on FH, he kicking me from the agramon channel etc Damn it was so nice to beat them back then, but damn it hurt when they beat us back! Was a fun challenge though, and the fights vs Maelstrom-Groove was always very emotional in terms of win/loose situations, making us try harder and harder

 

[Cadelin]

Which one(s)? Would like to know the FH fao that was the straw that broke the camels back for you.

And was it the solo fao whines or the full group fao ones?

If you dont back this up with evidence then looks to me like you are being flippant. Funny how its driven you out of the game, but not driven you out of the forum - would of expected you to leave the rvr forum rather than the game.

What exactly do I need to do to prove something to you? You can always say "I don't believe you, you are lying/making stuff up/playing devils advocate". I could search the forums, post a link and then you would demand that I need to provide explanations or more proof. What will actually satisfy you? Either accept what I say or just ignore it completely.

Freddyshouse contains plenty of other sections that just Dyvet RvR. I spend alot of time on the template section or on other forums. You will also note that this thread is entitled "avalon" which refers to the server I currently play on. That is primarily why I read and replied to it. Maybe you should move threads relating to other servers onto the correct forum. Then I would happy stop reading this particular forum.

 

[Arethir]

Well, just a wild guess here ofc, but if you posted a link, with someone from the "fg crowd" or whatever, whining at you for adding, and says, this made me upset, so I left, that could be one way of doing it... Just an idea ofc, since that's what he's asking you to do...

 

[Cromcruaich]

What exactly do I need to do to prove something to you? You can always say "I don't believe you, you are lying/making stuff up/playing devils advocate". I could search the forums, post a link and then you would demand that I need to provide explanations or more proof. What will actually satisfy you? Either accept what I say or just ignore it completely.

Freddyshouse contains plenty of other sections that just Dyvet RvR. I spend alot of time on the template section or on other forums. You will also note that this thread is entitled "avalon" which refers to the server I currently play on. That is primarily why I read and replied to it. Maybe you should move threads relating to other servers onto the correct forum. Then I would happy stop reading this particular forum.

When did you stop playing roughly?

 

[Cadelin]

Well, just a wild guess here ofc, but if you posted a link, with someone from the "fg crowd" or whatever, whining at you for adding, and says, this made me upset, so I left, that could be one way of doing it... Just an idea ofc, since that's what he's asking you to do...

If it was that simple I would have already done it. People attitudes changed due to the forums. I would often try running PUGs but it became increasing difficult to find people who would work together and people would often refuse to group with others simply because of a reputation they had got from FH. I could give examples but I am sure somebody would come along and say "lolz they are all idiots, I can't believe anyone would group with them" etc. This would actually prove my point but I don't want to spend time defending friends from the FH morons.

In general I play the driver, either on pac healer or bard (although I also play druid). I decided what to fight and in general I recieved very little whine.

Crom: I stop playing Dyvet about a year ago. Its difficult to say exactly because it was a gradual change over. The last time I ever logged in to Dyvet was about 6 months ago though.

 

[Cromcruaich]

If it was that simple I would have already done it. People attitudes changed due to the forums. I would often try running PUGs but it became increasing difficult to find people who would work together and people would often refuse to group with others simply because of a reputation they had got from FH. I could give examples but I am sure somebody would come along and say "lolz they are all idiots, I can't believe anyone would group with them" etc. This would actually prove my point but I don't want to spend time defending friends from the FH morons.

In general I play the driver, either on pac healer or bard (although I also play druid). I decided what to fight and in general I recieved very little whine.

Crom: I stop playing Dyvet about a year ago. Its difficult to say exactly because it was a gradual change over. The last time I ever logged in to Dyvet was about 6 months ago though.

Gosh sorry to hear that, its not something I recognise at all. Can't believe (dont mean i dont believe you!) that people recruited based on FH reputation. Go on, name and shame them.

I have certainly experienced elitism within groups (nolby pride wouldnt even deign to talk to you in OF times), from the days before I even used FH, but personally never had anyone mention fh and fh reputation as a reason for not grouping with someone. Some people just latch on to anything to kick others with though.

 

[Cadelin]

Gosh sorry to hear that, its not something I recognise at all. Can't believe (dont mean i dont believe you!) that people recruited based on FH reputation. Go on, name and shame them.

I have certainly experienced elitism within groups (nolby pride wouldnt even deign to talk to you in OF times), from the days before I even used FH, but personally never had anyone mention fh and fh reputation as a reason for not grouping with someone. Some people just latch on to anything to kick others with though.

The obvious example is Golden Age. I defended Shivhae's because I didn't think she was being punished fairly. Some people assumed that made me a cheater too.

Bradlex stopped grouping with me for a while which he said was because people stopped treating him like a soloer. I am sure you can find a few threads on here involving whines about Bradlex getting healed.

There are a few more example but most just involve xxxx not grouping with anyone in yyyy guild because someone on FH said they were lame.

There were still enough people playing Dyvet when I left to form PUGs but there just wasn't the will. Fortunately on avalon most people seem to judge others on what they are actually like rather than what FH says about them.

 

[Golena]

I feel your clutching at straws a bit here. And someone who gets truly offended by reading 'nicely added' really shouldnt be allowed to cross the road on their own, never mind use the internet.

It's not about being truly offended. It's about making something that should be fun not as fun anymore.
Many people play the game as something fun to do after work to get away from real life. If it stops being fun, and comments like that do leave a rather bitter taste, then you just eventually stop doing it.
I'm not suggesting people are going to break down crying over it, but it certainly doesn't enhance the "i'm enjoying playing the game" feeling. Casual players play MMPORGS for the interaction with other players. When the majority of those interactions are negative (even if not utterly insulting) then why play?

I'd challenge you to provide an example of one person who left as a direct result of FH faos. As its something that is often cited, but frankly I think its complete rubbish, and will continue to do so until you meet this burden of proof.

I didn't leave as such, but I certainly started playing on other servers more because of it. I used to live with 2 other people that played DAoC, so naturally we tended to want to group when we went out to RvR. Now this sort of left us with a problem. We either ran into soloers or full groups. Full groups would steamroll us happily because we wern't soloers, so obviously adding scum, and soloers would whine bitterly if you steamrolled them as a trio. So we either didn't go out and RvR as we might of wanted to, or accepted that everyone we played with would treat us the same way people currently view CM.

Someone asked in another thread why Sorin keeps coming back with new accounts here when everyone thinks he's a tit. Why would you play on a server when everyone you were playing with/against also thought you were a tit? For some people it's just not fun if the people your playing with arn't happy to have you there, and coming here to read whines about people playing with the same or a similar playstyle certainly leaves you with that impression.

 

[Golena]

Also, please point out the FAO posts from FG regulars. Links will do. Time when there were FAO posts from full groups was almost exclusively to do with other full groups and inter full group vendettas and nothing to do with the wider community. Also the fg faos died out about 1.5 to 2 years ago. If you think i'm incorrect on this then I await your proof.

Ok, maybe not FAO's, but go read some of the gratz threads (the pre-edited ones) and see what comments people such as Staj made about the achievement of the individual.

I do agree that the inter group stuff was probably also beneficial to the game, so it's a rock hard place scenario.
I've pointed this out before in another thread as well, but I think most of the problem with the whines occured when TOA was released. Before that FH really could be the land of the people who actually wanted to fight and whine and enjoyed that. With TOA every casual player had to come here as well to find out when the raids were being held, so simply ignoring it became much harder. And since the whiners knew the casuals were therefore reading, went out of their way to go bait them at every opportunity.

 

[Arethir]

There are a few more example but most just involve xxxx not grouping with anyone in yyyy guild because someone on FH said they were lame.

Well, then answer this! I grouped with PE (that's Public Enemies, the "leet" OF group from prydwen, in case you didn't know), both when I was in Knights of The Round Table (the roleplaying guild that detested anyone in PE), and in Kupo Flux (which has later become known as "adders" on FH). Nothing that my guild or any FH reputation did kept me from doing it.

I could give examples

Dude, if you want to proove something, you need proof. I mean, seriously, you can't simply say "there are examples, but I just don't want to show them to you..." Crom said none left because of any FAO threads on FH from leet people whining at them for adding. You said you did. Then show us those horrifying FAO threads that made you quit imo! Because I simply can't believe anything like that happened. That would simply be stupid. You can stick up for yourself, you pay the subs, you can do what you want, you could ignore them, you could stop reading FH. There's alot of better options than quitting.

 

[Arethir]

Someone asked in another thread why Sorin keeps coming back with new accounts here when everyone thinks he's a tit. Why would you play on a server when everyone you were playing with/against also thought you were a tit? For some people it's just not fun if the people your playing with arn't happy to have you there, and coming here to read whines about people playing with the same or a similar playstyle certainly leaves you with that impression.

Sorry, haven't had the time to read all of your posts and reply to them(need to sleep), but I just wanted to say this.

If "all" the players ingame thinks you're a tit, then imo, you should stop playing, cause that sounds utter shit But, in this case, it's only the "leet, non-adding" people that thinks you're a tit, ain't it? And that certainly doesn't classify as "all" imo.

And well, it's a known fact that some people play this game to be able to be the best. They want to defeat everyone, fightning them 1v1. If you come along and jumps in, and thereby ruins the point of the fight, which is to proove your skill to your opponent and get respect and fear, you will dislike that action. When it happens several times, you will dislike it more. Eventually you will get so angry, that you might say "well added twat", or something similar. Maybe even make a FAO thread on FH about it.

 

[Cadelin]

Well, then answer this! I grouped with PE (that's Public Enemies, the "leet" OF group from prydwen, in case you didn't know), both when I was in Knights of The Round Table (the roleplaying guild that detested anyone in PE), and in Kupo Flux (which has later become known as "adders" on FH). Nothing that my guild or any FH reputation did kept me from doing it.

Prove it. I need screen shots of this at the very least, otherwise you are just making it up.

Dude, if you want to proove something, you need proof. I mean, seriously, you can't simply say "there are examples, but I just don't want to show them to you..." Crom said none left because of any FAO threads on FH from leet people whining at them for adding. You said you did. Then show us those horrifying FAO threads that made you quit imo! Because I simply can't believe anything like that happened. That would simply be stupid. You can stick up for yourself, you pay the subs, you can do what you want, you could ignore them, you could stop reading FH. There's alot of better options than quitting.

I don't need to prove anything to you. If you don't believe me I don't really care. I gave you enough information to illustrate my point and you can certainly check that what I said actually happened and find the various threads that relate to the issues if you spend enough time.

 

[Arethir]

Prove it. I need screen shots of this at the very least, otherwise you are just making it up.

Rofl. Well luckily for me, I CAN.

I don't need to prove anything to you. If you don't believe me I don't really care. I gave you enough information to illustrate my point and you can certainly check that what I said actually happened and find the various threads that relate to the issues if you spend enough time.

Right. Because if you prooved it, I really wouldn't believe you. True story mate! NOT! Seriously man, get a reality check! Proove something and it will be true! If you say you left due to THIS particular thread, then that is proove aswell, because it is your opinion, and noone can argue against it. But if you say that, ofc I could argue you're an idiot, but you'd still proove that you left because of a thread on FH. As said by the great scott: "It's not f***ing rocketscience you know!!"

 

[Swed]

rofl.. did someone stop playing DAoC because of a FOA thread? hehe thats funny

its only a game omg.. not a lifestyle

 

[Cadelin]

Rofl. Well luckily for me, I CAN.

Unfortunately that screenshot proves nothing. The screenshot needs to show what guild you are in, otherwise you are lying. I also need the evidence to show that this guild you "claim" to have been in really hated PE. You have also failed to show yourself grouping with Kupo Flux so you are clearly lying about that too.


As I explained to Crom before you could not pinpoint an exact thread post that made me leave Dyvet. Many posts slowly over time caused the problems that I encountered.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Fair enough gol, dont think are views are a million miles away from each other on this.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Unfortunately that screenshot proves nothing. The screenshot needs to show what guild you are in, otherwise you are lying. I also need the evidence to show that this guild you "claim" to have been in really hated PE. You have also failed to show yourself grouping with Kupo Flux so you are clearly lying about that too.


As I explained to Crom before you could not pinpoint an exact thread post that made me leave Dyvet. Many posts slowly over time caused the problems that I encountered.

I asked the question because of your initial response - it was quite a definite 'i did'. This immediately made me think you were very definite that an fao thread was the reason you left.

Now I think, its going down the fuzzy road of a general maliase with the game and the dyvet scene, also coupled I imagine with the reasons most of us left - because the action was pretty poor. Termed that way, I cant argue with you.


Oh, the point about brad wasnt really relevant - it didnt demonstrate that brad didnt group because of owt to do with FH - its just because he wanted to maintain a solo rep - Jamiesmallicus was the same - he rarely used FH but for long periods wouldnt group. Maeloch wouldnt even group as he was after solo title.

 

[Cadelin]

Oh, the point about brad wasnt really relevant - it didnt demonstrate that brad didnt group because of owt to do with FH - its just because he wanted to maintain a solo rep - Jamiesmallicus was the same - he rarely used FH but for long periods wouldnt group. Maeloch wouldnt even group as he was after solo title.

This is exactly why I have not been bothering to explain in detail. You don't know what people said to me ingame about things they had heard on FH. For all you know I might have been told: "I am not grouping with you because of that thread on FH" but I am not horner, I don't take a screenshot everytime someone sends me a PM. I can't remember exactly who said what to me ingame around a year ago and even if I did some people probably wouldn't be happy until I produced GOA servers logs and a sworn testmenant from all those involved.

I am supporting some of the things Golena said because it did reflect my personal experience. Choose to accept it or not but I know I am not going to change anybodies mind with more "evidence" or "proof".

 

[Arethir]

Unfortunately that screenshot proves nothing. The screenshot needs to show what guild you are in, otherwise you are lying. I also need the evidence to show that this guild you "claim" to have been in really hated PE. You have also failed to show yourself grouping with Kupo Flux so you are clearly lying about that too.


As I explained to Crom before you could not pinpoint an exact thread post that made me leave Dyvet. Many posts slowly over time caused the problems that I encountered.

Ok, in one of those pictures, I am in a PE/AD group. If you look at the emblem on my cloak, and then at the emblem of the guy 2 feet away from me, you'll see they are the same. It says Kupo Flux over his head. I'd say that prooves I was in Kupo Flux. Esp since I've been their GM for a very long period of time and I can get very many people to testify to that.
We ran guild groups on a regular basis. I have screenshots of these to. Like this

If you want to see threads where people call Kupo Flux adders, see here.
See, it's not really that hard, now is it?

And fgs man, wtf are you on about? Noone wants you to post GoA reports and whatnot, who gives a shit. As I said, this is YOUR fucking opinion. You're allowed to claim any reason whatsoever as to why you quit. And to repeat myself. It's not f***ing rocketscience you know! Just try to tell us, what excactly in these posts and threads made you so upset that you simply couldn't stand playing any longer? Did it ever cross your mind to simply not read FH? Lets assume it didn't. What was so devastating that you gave up on the game? Because it really sounds to me like you have no explanation whatsoever, and that you're simply trying to flamebait or make an arguement out of nothing.

In short, we're not expecting rocketscience, just your opinion. And that can not be so damn hard to give. How could this forum kill your ingame time? Or did everyone ingame /rude you aswell as the ones on the forum?

 

[Cadelin]

Arethir I have explain before but you clearly missed it. The threads did not affect me directly, they changed other peoples attitudes towards me and some of the people I played with. It wouldn't have mattered if I had stopped reading FH because other people still did and they based their judgements on what they read on FH.

Ok, in one of those pictures, I am in a PE/AD group. If you look at the emblem on my cloak, and then at the emblem of the guy 2 feet away from me, you'll see they are the same. It says Kupo Flux over his head. I'd say that prooves I was in Kupo Flux. Esp since I've been their GM for a very long period of time and I can get very many people to testify to that.
We ran guild groups on a regular basis. I have screenshots of these to. Like this

If you want to see threads where people call Kupo Flux adders, see here.
See, it's not really that hard, now is it?

Ok so, so far you have proved that you once grouped with PE and that you were in Kupo Flux. And that Kupo Flux got whined at. The fact is that Get A Life play frequently enough to not rely on FH as a useful source of information but unfortunately some people do believe whats written on FH.

 

[Vodkafairy]

why even bother, arethir?

 

[Arethir]

why even bother, arethir?

I don't know. I really don't know
I guess I must be very boored irl, because this is just laughable. I guess that some times, I will just have to accept, that some people are beyond saving. Though it is hard to do :/

 

[Genedril]

I don't know. I really don't know
I guess I must be very boored irl, because this is just laughable. I guess that some times, I will just have to accept, that some people are beyond saving. Though it is hard to do :/

It's not true everyone can be saved; I do believe that Shark once entered into a reasoned & open debate with Muly (no I don't have links but it did happen - if you believe it didn't then use the search option on the forum if you really care that much ).

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

I'd challenge you to provide an example of one person who left as a direct result of FH faos. As its something that is often cited, but frankly I think its complete rubbish, and will continue to do so until you meet this burden of proof.

I was about to leave the game due to the hostilities from arrgant assholes being on top of the food chain AND not living up to their own standards/principles for a few times. I am quite sure some others left for good but those people are not on here and I suppose they didn't make a big drama about it - when they left.

You really fail as the protector of the wannabe leet players who think that they achieved something by running in a group of 8 and that it gave them the right to abuse others - "no one killed himself because of the abuse, so it was allright mates!" is just a piss poor argumentation.

DAoC's RvR was always without any risk, no death penalty (as in losing assets), no ladder place/tournament one could fuck up and unbalanced at the same time (group setups, RRs). It's quite funny to see the ones like you asking other groups who play for fun to "earn some proper respect" and defend the ones flaming the other groups by saying they didn't hurt anyone because no one left.

DAoC was always designed as a game for a lot of different player types, you can get this by looking at 3 different realms, lots of different classes and the possibility of PvE, PvP and both at different levels of difficulty.

I have yet to see someone who farmed Danos or some other harder mobs alone or who used his ML9 Cabby to pull whole PoC rooms making some FAO threads about the people who enjoyed for example killing yellow con mobs.

For some reason a few players felt that need to show others that their playstyle is superior AND that they are superior at mastering their playstyle.

That being said I can only come to the conclusion that most of the guys posting that kind of FAO threads suffered from some serious inferiority complexes.

Looking at the age of some here and at the way they always responded when faced with their double-standard behaviour in game I am not really suprised.

Some of the better FG players on Dyvet and this particular forum section make the higest idiot density pro squaremeter of virtual place I have seen in a game so far.

The sad thing about all this, I have been a huge fan at first of the usual suspects and had big respect. In other games I know like for example EVE even the worst in game/forum enemies used to show each other respect after a good battle and the top of the PvP'ers there were always respected and always will be even if they left long time ago.

Maybe because they didn't feel the urge to make some really pathetic theads insulting people who they considered cannon fodder. They knew who was good and who not and they prefered to praise and memorize a good battle. If they slaughtered some noobs, they made a movie.