Asylum Seekers; Yay or Nay?

[DaGaffer]

You should try a little time living in a 60% muslim area. The only thing they're a threat to is animal cruelty laws, and their kids are already coming round to our way of thinking...

Well, they were. The last decade or so of the War On TerrorTM has put a large dent in the assimilation process.

 

[throdgrain]

They have a big post-Ramadan praying session at the bottom of my road in the park. I had a walk past a few years ago, there were hundreds of people. The bloke was berating them all over loudspeakers that they would go to hell if they didn't obey the Koran. If woman didn't cover up, hey would go to hell. If men listen to western music they would go to hell. And on and on.

But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of internet principled arguments.

 

[Gwadien]

Your problem Scouse is that you set high standards for yourself, and automatically assume that every one else will abide by them. The idea that you can allow 1 million poor , mostly Muslim, mostly male people into your country, then assume they will behave as you want, is rediculous.

They're not poor.

Syria was a wealthy country prior to the war, a lot of these people have a lot of possessions, hence why people get pissed that they've photographed as being well built and having smart phones etc.

The problem is that Germany hasn't set up a proper infrastructure to have these people, sure, put them in concentrated 'camps' (although that may be controversial) but do it so it's easier to regulate and so they can actually cope with the numbers.

Saying that 1 million migrants is a problem is ridiculous, look at Lebanon and Jordan, Lebanon has a population 4.6 million and Jordan has a population of 6 million, and they each have a million refugees each, I don't know much about Lebanon these days, but Jordan prides theirselves on being a very 'western-esque' nation, they have extremely good infrastructure, the highest literacy rates (For all genders) across the middle east, they respect other religions, and yes, they do get attacked.

How can they cope with such a huge influx of migration and we can't? Is it because they're getting the good eggs and we're getting the bad eggs?

 

[Shagrat]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35280386

This whole situation is playing right into Pegida and other groups hands.

 

[Scouse]

You couldn't see reality if it hit you in the face. And so you have to, by instinct go against what most people think, unconsciously no doubt to make a better impact. Islam will change this country. For the worse. Even moderate hahaha Muslims still believe in their religion first, above all else. You see less burkhas? Where do you get that from? Since when ? There were no burkhas at all in the 80s and now I see more and more every day.

You live in white white crawley. Muslim immigration has increased so you're seeing more burkhas - but I've lived in brown brown Bradford (and now live in Nottingham - which is such an ethnically diverse place that British companies tend to do all their market research here) and have seen how muslims integrate.

I've lived on the white white Wirral - never saw black skin at my school of 600 until I was 15 and the first black guy arrived - and promptly started to steal things off people and beat people up before being rapidly expelled. So I've lived each side of the equation. - If you live in a white area and ninjas start turning up everywhere then you're bound to think, on an emotional knee-jerk level, that "things are changing" - because they are.

But the whole place isn't going to pot. The idea that that's happening is as much of a crock of shit as the old English fear that niggers were going to corrupt all our white girls.


White white England is already dead. Religion is dying in the face of education, capitalism and scientific progress. It's going to be a bumpy ride - but humans in 1000 years (if we're still around) are all going to be cadbury's milk-chocolate brown. And looking back they'll wonder how we could all be so retarded to even worry about it, before jumping on their solar-powered atheist space-planes to dine at an orbiting vegan restaurant before partaking in the traditional all-in gender-free orgy / dessert.

Islam'll be nowhere to be seen, along with all the other crackpot shite that currently pollutes our stupid monkey minds...

 

[Scouse]

Well, they were. The last decade or so of the War On TerrorTM has put a large dent in the assimilation process.

Yeah. Idiot fundamentalist christian white people doing their best to fuck up what was working very well, thankyouverymuch, stirring up racial hatred and creating divisions between humans where previously those divisions were becoming more and more opaque

 

[Scouse]

They have a big post-Ramadan praying session at the bottom of my road in the park. I had a walk past a few years ago, there were hundreds of people. The bloke was berating them all over loudspeakers that they would go to hell if they didn't obey the Koran. If woman didn't cover up, hey would go to hell. If men listen to western music they would go to hell. And on and on.

There's a constrant stream of christian whackos on megaphones who stand on boxes in the town square in Nottingham spouting the same shit.

And you know what? Living in Blighty means that they're becoming more and more marginalised and less and less relevant - huge swathes of people ignore them and/or ridicule them. And the same thing is happening with Islam - they're just a bit behind christianity, is all.


What do you expect? Do you want to fuck over islam or not? If you do - then bring them here - we're a religion-destroying society.

Or you could leave them out in the cold - to become more and more radical in the face of wars that are killing their families - whilst looking overhead at our drones and fighter planes...

 

[Raven]

Yeah. Idiot fundamentalist christian white people doing their best to fuck up what was working very well, thankyouverymuch, stirring up racial hatred and creating divisions between humans where previously those divisions were becoming more and more opaque

Please, please, stop using the race card, this has nothing at all to do with race. Islam is not a race.

 

[DaGaffer]

So, blame anyone else except the people who actually did it lol

Nothing of the sort, I'm pretty sure I said they should be arrested and deported; but to do that you actually have to make some arrests. And you're right, its not brilliant when they police a demo with water cannon but can't police a large scale public event at all (its not like 31st of December is a random event). How many cops would you see in Trafalgar Square on NYE?

 

[Scouse]

Please, please, stop using the race card, this has nothing at all to do with race. Islam is not a race.

Racism as a simile for something we don't really have an alternative word for - i.e. the hating of people because they're different in some way to us.

You don't hate muslims because they're brown - that's absolutely fine and I accept that. You hate them because they're muslim.

Well newsflash - it doesn't really matter because, structurally, it's the same fucking thing as racism, apart from it's not about colour.

 

[Raven]

So nothing at all about race then. Great, now you can stop using it.

I don't hate them personally, I hate their religion and pity anyone stuck with what is essentially a mental illness.

 

[Scouse]

I don't hate them personally, I hate their religion and pity anyone stuck with what is essentially a mental illness.

Then show pity. Support bringing them here, help them assimilate, cure them of their religiously inspired mental illness.


But no. We'll treat all of them them in exactly the same manner - like they're a separate race and we're racist. In the absence of a better term, if you hate an entire group of people for <meh> then that's racism.

If you don't that term being used to describe, very accurately, that sort of opinion then provide a credible alternative. Otherwise, stop trying to get off on a technicality and take a good look at the opinion which it so accurately describes.

 

[throdgrain]

Who organised 1000 young men to go on a rampage on New Years Eve? That's what I'd like to know. To attack only females. Next year I wonder if there will be less women and girls out partying on NYE. And then we have our first bit of Sharia "education". You should all be so pleased

I hate Islam. It stands against everything I, and you @Scouse , believe in.

 

[Raven]

Then show pity. Support bringing them here, help them assimilate, cure them of their religiously inspired mental illness.


But no. We'll treat all of them them in exactly the same manner - like they're a separate race and we're racist. In the absence of a better term, if you hate an entire group of people for <meh> then that's racism.

If you don't that term being used to describe, very accurately, that sort of opinion then provide a credible alternative. Otherwise, stop trying to get off on a technicality and take a good look at the opinion which it so accurately describes.

Wait a minute. You still seem to still be under the impression I don't want them here, despite me repeatedly saying otherwise...

You then go on to say I hate a group of people when I quite specifically said I didn't.

You also keep going on about me saying they are all as bad as one another when again, if you actually read what I said, I have said over and over that it is a minority of people causing problems for the majority.

It really is odd. You seem to be completely incapable of reading or comprehension, is there an underlying issue we don't know about here?

 

[DaGaffer]

Who organised 1000 young men to go on a rampage on New Years Eve? That's what I'd like to know. To attack only females. Next year I wonder if there will be less women and girls out partying on NYE. And then we have our first bit of Sharia "education". You should all be so pleased

I hate Islam. It stands against everything I, and you @Scouse , believe in.

Twitter. Probably. Or BBM. Remember the London riots?

 

[Scouse]

Who organised 1000 young men to go on a rampage on New Years Eve? That's what I'd like to know. To attack only females.

I hate Islam. It stands against everything I, and you @Scouse , believe in.

Agree with this completely. It's worrying that it's organised.

And yes, I absolutely detest Islam. But hate the religion, not the people. That's a really important thing.

Next year I wonder if there will be less women and girls out partying on NYE. And then we have our first bit of Sharia "education". You should all be so pleased

That's a bit tin-foil hat tho, don't you think?

 

[Scouse]

It really is odd. You seem to be completely incapable of reading or comprehension, is there an underlying issue we don't know about here?

The explanation is that I'm not paying too much attention to your posts to be honest...

 

[Tom]

You're not going to educate Islam. It's going to educate you.

You don't educate Islam, you educate it's followers. Who, in time, will realise what a load of old bollocks religion is.

 

[Raven]

Agree with this completely. It's worrying that it's organised.

And yes, I absolutely detest Islam. But hate the religion, not the people. That's a really important thing.

I disagree, you really should detest Islam, not the people who follow it.

Spoiler

baffling isn't it? making stuff up and putting words into people mouths is no way to have a discussion

 

[throdgrain]

Agree with this completely. It's worrying that it's organised.

And yes, I absolutely detest Islam. But hate the religion, not the people. That's a really important thing.




That's a bit tin-foil hat tho, don't you think?

I'm not sure. I hope so.

 

[Raven]

The explanation is that I'm not paying too much attention to your posts to be honest...

Well, maybe you should stop insinuating I am racist then?

 

[Scouse]

I'm not sure. I hope so.

Even if it was true it'd only backfire. It'd be a feeble-minded and counterproductive attempt that plays against themselves.

If that's the best people can come up with then I'm actually comforted by their incompetence.

If we're going full tinfoil I'd say it's much more likely to be far-right organised as it plays to their agenda rather than Islam's.

 

[throdgrain]

Even if it was true it'd only backfire. It'd be a feeble-minded and counterproductive attempt that plays against themselves.

If that's the best people can come up with then I'm actually comforted by their incompetence.

If we're going full tinfoil I'd say it's much more likely to be far-right organised as it plays to their agenda rather than Islam's.

We'll see I guess. Allow me to say I told you so next time I see you in the Mosque though

 

[Scouse]

Well, maybe you should stop insinuating I am racist then?

Raven, the reason I'm not following your posts very closely is because for the past few months you've been absolutely impossible to have any sort of worthwhile discussion with - a discussion involves nuance and give-and-take - for example, I concede there's likely to be a higher level of criminality amongst imigrants and you concede on another point and together we hammer out a better, more nuanced and comprehensive view.

But it just ain't happening, so I've kinda caricatured you and I respond in kind. Yeah, it's probably an innacurate caricature, but in the absence of an alternative it's all I can be arsed with

 

[Bodhi]

Not sure I'd entirely agree with that, I've heard from multiple sources ISIS are quite keen for us westerners and the refugees to fall out, as it's more recruits for them....

 

[Job]

As I keep repeating, it doesn't matter how many peaceful, western muslims live here, history proves, again and again that a few idiots can stir up chaos, do you really think, that on any level the German people from the top to the bottom are objectively looking at this, no they are freakin batshit furious and have a certain history of organising a response.

 

[Scouse]

Not sure I'd entirely agree with that, I've heard from multiple sources ISIS are quite keen for us westerners and the refugees to fall out, as it's more recruits for them....

Actually, that's not a bad bit of hattery there @Bodhi old bean.

If the west goes from compassionate aid-givers to refugee-hating islam-bashers then ISIS is massively strengthened.

But it does shine a light on the solution to that problem - more help from Europe for the desparate and downtrodden refugees - and acknowledgement and acceptance that with refugees come some social problems, along with a refusal to give up on them because of these problems...

 

[Scouse]

Ado you really think, that on any level the German people from the top to the bottom are objectively looking at this

Yes. I do think that the vast majority of well-educated people are looking at this rationally and objectively.

Merkel's to be applauded. She's taken the stance that what happened is criminal in nature and has proposed strengthening the law so as to expidite criminal process. She hasn't put a ban on taking in immigrants, like the poorly educated knee-jerk mob want her to.

Nice, rational and considered.

 

[Raven]

I think you ought to reread what has been posted sine the link...

I have every right to defend myself when you say I am racist posting a news story and then go on to say I hold an opposite view of what I have repeatedly stated.

 

[Bodhi]

Actually, that's not a bad bit of hattery there @Bodhi old bean.

If the west goes from compassionate aid-givers to refugee-hating islam-bashers then ISIS is massively strengthened.

But it does shine a light on the solution to that problem - more help from Europe for the desparate and downtrodden refugees - and acknowledgement and acceptance that with refugees come some social problems, along with a refusal to give up on them because of these problems...

Completely agree, however we cannot ignore the long nosed mammal in the room - not everyone who made the walk to Germany was a poor downtrodden refugee, there were an awful lot of economic migrants and chancers came along as well - and it's those who concern me, not the refugees. Given the lack of secure border between Greece and Turkey we have no idea who's come along as well, but the long lines of young males in the queues to get in is a slight concern I will be honest - mainly as if conditions in Syria are so bad (and I'm prepared to believe that they are), what the hell were they doing leaving families behind?

I think that's where we differ on the different approaches from the UK and Germany - sadly the Germans have left themselves wide open to abuse (pun not intended), whereas the UK can help those most in need and discourage the "others" from making the trip.