Asylum Seekers; Yay or Nay?

[Scouse]

The thread title did.

Actually I'd say it was context and the thrust of @Raven's argument. But because he didn't actually use the word it gives him an opportunity to be disingenuous.

 

[Raven]

What argument?

Also, you do realise that only part of the latest influx are Syrian...right? Quite a lot of them are Iraqi, Afghan, north African etc...

To put words into your mouth (very popular lately) they are not "all the same"

 

[Gwadien]

What argument?

Also, you do realise that only part of the latest influx are Syrian...right? Quite a lot of them are Iraqi, Afghan, north African etc...

To put words into your mouth (very popular lately) they are not "all the same"

OP specifies middle east.

 

[Raven]

OP specifies middle east.

Thread has moved on to cover a wide range of topics.

Welcome to off-topic.

 

[Gwadien]

Thread has moved on to cover a wide range of topics.

Welcome to off-topic.

I set out a point to make this thread about the middle east and not about the economic migrants coming from North Africa since they're completely seperate incidents which have been nicely tarnished by the same brush.

You're one of the people which moaned about people taking threads off-topic, and since you're taking this off-topic to suit your agenda, it's pretty borked.

 

[Raven]

Go through the 23 pages, its gone off topic...a lot.

Please quote me moaning about threads going off topic, please do. Oh wait, you can't because I don't complain about things that don't bother me...because that would be weird.

Syria is not the only country in the Middle East and certainly not the only country to have people leaving by way of raft...you cannot just pick on the Syrians, the entire region is broken.

 

[Raven]

Its actually a shame that events like this cannot be discussed without people trying to imply racism or some sort of agenda. One of the major problems of addressing racism and fundamentalism in society is those unwilling to discuss something that goes against their closeted, naive world view.

Sadly, it has happened, getting all hand wringy over it will not help to resolve the fact that it has happened and will happen again, and again and again until the underlying issues are resolved. Getting pedantic will not resolve it either, neither will faux indignant outrage that someone dares comment on such events.

 

[Scouse]

It's easy to avoid a lot of what you dislike there @Raven - people should be more specific in their posts so it's clear exactly what they're talking about. I've called for this a lot.

 

[Raven]

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

Alternatively we remove the quite obvious attempt to keep education elitist and have more intelligent working classes

What's this got to do with Syrian refugees?

Taken from random pages in this thread.

 

[Raven]

It's easy to avoid a lot of what you dislike there @Raven - people should be more specific in their posts so it's clear exactly what they're talking about. I've called for this a lot.

Er, in a thread discussing immigrants and the pros and cons of them, a poster that has quite clearly stated over and over again that they should be helped where possible, comments on the darker side of some of their behavior in one of the most welcoming of countries and suggests that it won't help their cause. Just linking a news story and and raising an opinion. Not a lot of wiggle room for getting the wrong end of the stick, unless people are trying to get the wrong end of the stick so they can be OUTRAGED! which happens all too often.

I know @Gwadien gets his opinion from the student union and goes out of his way to see a slight against that weird view but come on, some posters here are adults, fully capable of growing their own opinion and capable of seeing that not everything is black and white.

 

[Gwadien]

Er, in a thread discussing immigrants and the pros and cons of them, a poster that has quite clearly stated over and over again that they should be helped where possible, comments on the darker side of some of their behavior in one of the most welcoming of countries and suggests that it won't help their cause. Just linking a news story and and raising an opinion. Not a lot of wiggle room for getting the wrong end of the stick, unless people are trying to get the wrong end of the stick so they can be OUTRAGED! which happens all too often.

I know @Gwadien gets his opinion from the student union and goes out of his way to see a slight against that weird view but come on, some posters here are adults, fully capable of growing their own opinion and capable of seeing that not everything is black and white.

Bore off

Its clear that you're a fucking mong if you can't distinguish between economic migrants and refugees and you're tarnishing them all with the same brush.

 

[Raven]

Nice chat, Tally Ho old bean.

 

[Bodhi]

Er, in a thread discussing immigrants and the pros and cons of them, a poster that has quite clearly stated over and over again that they should be helped where possible, comments on the darker side of some of their behavior in one of the most welcoming of countries and suggests that it won't help their cause. Just linking a news story and and raising an opinion. Not a lot of wiggle room for getting the wrong end of the stick, unless people are trying to get the wrong end of the stick so they can be OUTRAGED! which happens all too often.

I know @Gwadien gets his opinion from the student union and goes out of his way to see a slight against that weird view but come on, some posters here are adults, fully capable of growing their own opinion and capable of seeing that not everything is black and white.

Dude, this is all very well, but you're debating something with a modern student - this post needs more trigger warnings, maybe allude to a safe space or two. You know what Generation Snowflake are like, say something they don't agree with they get all pissy and try to stop you debating them in case they get offended.

 

[Gwadien]

Again, bore off with the student shit, its like calling you all daily mail injecting Nazis, I don't 'feed' off student politics I don't discuss politics at uni, the only ones I do are right wing, but hey, that won't stop your ignorance.

Its called having context and a scope for a discussion, overlapping subject matters will create the discussion to be inconclusive ands its particularly evident that this is the case here since there's barely been any evidence of the targeted subject matter causing a great deal of bother post asylum seeking. Its just the economic migrants from Africs

 

[Scouse]

Don't rise to the Generation Snowflake shite - it's just Bodhi's way of coping with the fact you have differing opinions than him, so rather than engage he prefers to belittle you and discount your opinions out of hand (with a dig at Uni too, because, you know, attempting to educate yourself is something he's not really that much of a fan of).

Notice he doesn't do the same to DaGaffer, though he made the original point...

 

[Gwadien]

Don't rise to the Generation Snowflake shite - it's just Bodhi's way of coping with the fact you have differing opinions than him, so rather than engage he prefers to belittle you and discount your opinions out of hand (with a dig at Uni too, because, you know, attempting to educate yourself is something he's not really that much of a fan of).

Notice he doesn't do the same to DaGaffer, though he made the original point...

Yes, so much yes.

Same applies for @Raven

 

[Bodhi]

See what I mean?

 

[Gwadien]

See what I mean?

I refuse to debate something irrelevant to the subject matter.

It's you and Raven who has brought 'wah wah wah studenty types' into it.

I'll engage in this debate if you debate with me that not allowing them all into our country is just like not letting the jews during ww2 into your country.

 

[throdgrain]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...r-young-women-to-prevent-future-assaults.html

First part of Sharia law

 

[Raven]

I refuse to debate something irrelevant to the subject matter.

It's you and Raven who has brought 'wah wah wah studenty types' into it.

I'll engage in this debate if you debate with me that not allowing them all into our country is just like not letting the jews during ww2 into your country.

...we aren't saying they shouldn't be allowed in...or, well, I certainly am not.

What I actually said was, being a bit rapey is not going to help convince a country that you should be allowed to stay (whoever that might be) which is pretty fucking obvious really.

 

[Scouse]

being a bit rapey is not going to help convince a country that you should be allowed to stay (whoever that might be) which is pretty fucking obvious really.

Two questions:

1) What percentage of asylum seekers do we allow to be "a bit rapey" before we throw the whole job lot of them out of the country (regardless of innocence) back to somewhere they themselves will get shot at and raped?

2) Do we even wait to find out if they're guilty in a court of law before we chuck 'em out / deny entry to others?

oh, and,

3) Do you see how unjust, silly (and dangerous) your (sorry) the right-wing press's train of thinking is?

 

[Raven]

Two questions:

1) What percentage of asylum seekers do we allow to be "a bit rapey" before we throw the whole job lot of them out of the country back to somewhere they themselves will get shot at and raped, regardless of innocence?

2) Do we even wait to find out if they're guilty in a court of law before we chuck 'em out / deny entry to others?

oh, and,

3) Do you see how unjust, silly (and dangerous) your (sorry) the right-wing press's train of thinking is?

Failure to comprehend, again.

Read what I said again.

I said that this sort of action will end up getting the backs up of the people of Germany, which it will, which will end up with all immigrants having a hard time, which it will, fucking obviously.

You just think I said SEND UM ALL HOME because you just can't help being offended, you go out of your way to be offended, or try and twist what people say so that you can be offended. You are just as bad as the EDL, Britain First lot.

Anyone says anything that it's always the same OMG OUTRAGE!

Or maybe we should just agree that mobs of up to 100 people not of German origin rampaging about the place assaulting women will mean the people of Germany will welcome them with open arms, will that do?

 

[Bodhi]

I refuse to debate something irrelevant to the subject matter.

It's you and Raven who has brought 'wah wah wah studenty types' into it.

I'll engage in this debate if you debate with me that not allowing them all into our country is just like not letting the jews during ww2 into your country.

Well no, what I'd quite like us to do is go and get the refugees most in need and resettle them back in the UK that way, rather than let them face much peril crossing the med and have their plight hijacked by a large amount of chancers, thugs and surprise sex enthusiasts. However I don't think anyone is remotely suggesting sending them all back because some of them are a bit rapey, maybe just take a bit more care so we don't let all the rapey ones in?

 

[Scouse]

maybe just take a bit more care so we don't let all the rapey ones in?

Ooh ooh yes! We could setup a questionnaire asking 'are you a bit rapey' and if they say yes then not let em in!

Good thinking that man!

Reminds me of the Monty Python Secret Service sketch, that I can't find right now.

 

[Bodhi]

I was thinking more of a questionnaire, and if under Hobbies they put "Rape and Pillage" then we send them off on the next boat back yes?

 

[SilverHood]

Scouse, if you had a bowl of 1000 identical M&M's, and you knew 1 was poisonous, would you eat any, and if so, how many would you consider safe?

 

[Job]

Two questions:

1) What percentage of asylum seekers do we allow to be "a bit rapey" before we throw the whole job lot of them out of the country (regardless of innocence) back to somewhere they themselves will get shot at and raped?

2) Do we even wait to find out if they're guilty in a court of law before we chuck 'em out / deny entry to others?

oh, and,

3) Do you see how unjust, silly (and dangerous) your (sorry) the right-wing press's train of thinking is?

Everything right wing tends to be kneejerk, and lefty thoughtful sensible thinking is all very good, but it doesn't work because it nearly always originates from someone watching comfortably from an armchair.

 

[Scouse]

Everything right wing tends to be kneejerk, and lefty thoughtful sensible thinking is all very good, but it doesn't work because it nearly always originates from someone watching comfortably from an armchair.

Are you saying that right-wing thinking originates from boots-on-the-ground sympathetic realism then?

At least lefty thinking is actual thinking...

 

[Gwadien]

Well no, what I'd quite like us to do is go and get the refugees most in need and resettle them back in the UK that way, rather than let them face much peril crossing the med and have their plight hijacked by a large amount of chancers, thugs and surprise sex enthusiasts. However I don't think anyone is remotely suggesting sending them all back because some of them are a bit rapey, maybe just take a bit more care so we don't let all the rapey ones in?

Isn't that fairly obvious?

The issue here isn't that a couple are rapey so we should stop them from entering.

The problem is that stories like these are the ones which stop all of them from entering.

I went to Auschwitz a couple of days ago and the treatment of 'others' hasn't changed in order to justify it to the masses - its always the same, obviously the Nazis wanted to exterminate the Jews/poles but by having one German murdered in a Jewish area justified it for the rest of the Germans because as a result ALL the Jews were German murderers

 

[Raven]

a couple are rapey so we should stop them from entering.

The only people to have said that are you and @Scouse.

The problem is that stories like these are the ones which stop all of them from entering

That is what I keep saying, and you and Scouse keep moaning about me saying it. Its not only the news story, it is the fact that it has happened that will make Germans less likely to be accepting of immigrants.

The facts are;

Up to 1000 people rampaged through a town, numerous sexual assaults occurred, including rape plus loads of muggings and other assorted physical assaults.

These assaults were carried out by immigrants (it doesn't fucking matter where from)

This was reported in the news.

I commented on the fact that this would lead to German people being less likely to accept refugees.

You, scouse and the usual hand wringing lefties accused me of wanting to send them all home.

So we come full circle where there is no point discussing it because you lot are so desperate to have something to be offended about.