Asylum Seekers; Yay or Nay?

[Bodhi]

So you would quite happily let the banks fail? Interesting theory, but then it sounds a great idea until you have to clear up the shitstorm that would happen afterwards. Bills, wages, invoices, none of that would get paid. You'd pretty much grind the country to a halt overnight. And the Super Rich that Scouse seems to have a hard on for would be absolutely fine - it's the man on the street who would suffer.

Clearly mistakes were made in the run up to the banking crisis (ABN AMRO anyone?), but letting them fail would have quickly led to anarchy. Just goes to show that building a booming economy solely on cheap credit was fucking retarded, and explains an awful lot of the mess we are in now.

 

[DaGaffer]

So you would quite happily let the banks fail? Interesting theory, but then it sounds a great idea until you have to clear up the shitstorm that would happen afterwards. Bills, wages, invoices, none of that would get paid. You'd pretty much grind the country to a halt overnight. And the Super Rich that Scouse seems to have a hard on for would be absolutely fine - it's the man on the street who would suffer.

Clearly mistakes were made in the run up to the banking crisis (ABN AMRO anyone?), but letting them fail would have quickly led to anarchy. Just goes to show that building a booming economy solely on cheap credit was fucking retarded, and explains an awful lot of the mess we are in now.

Except the shitstorm happened anyway; look at Ireland, protecting the banks at all costs probably caused as much damage as letting the worst offender (Anglo-Irish) fail altogether. The pain certainly wouldn't have lasted as long. It wouldn't be so bad, but the quid quo pro of saving the banks that should have happened (regulation with teeth) clearly hasn't. Look at HSBC.

 

[Scouse]

until you have to clear up the shitstorm that would happen afterwards

Bullshit.

Stop regurgitating the shit the rich pedal through their media mouthpieces tbfh.

 

[Scouse]

Nice auto-facepalm there @Bodhi. You didn't have time to read the article 'cause I'd not even finished when it came through.

 

[Bodhi]

I gave you Facepalm because mentioning Iceland is stock Scouse answer number 4 after rebalance, it's all the the fault of the rich, and Science bitches!

I do find it interesting that you keep bringing Iceland up as a shining example of how to do things, considering before the crash they were out on their own in terms of dodgy investments, promising rates of return far beyond anything they could considerably pay back. And then afterwards they told the people who had invested with them to go screw themselves. This included the British taxpayer, who's side I got the impression you were on.

 

[Ormorof]

What does the Icelandic government have to do with a group of privately owned firms that received investments from a foreign organisation?

 

[DaGaffer]

What does the Icelandic government have to do with a group of privately owned firms that received investments from a foreign organisation?

Well, in Iceland's case there was actually a vote to default, and there was a vote to "liberalise" the Icelandic banking system in the first place. It's one of the few times where the public and state have been a willing (and informed) partner in bankers' bullshit

 

[Poag]

What does the Icelandic government have to do with a group of privately owned firms that received investments from a foreign organisation?

Boop....welcome to TPP! Where Private organisations can pull rank over countries.


What a glorious world we live in.

 

[Scouse]

I gave you Facepalm because mentioning Iceland is stock Scouse answer number 4 after rebalance...

I do find it interesting that you keep bringing Iceland up...

Erm. I don't.

Lol!

I think I've mentioned them a couple of times in discussions about banks but that's it - and that's bound to happen when someone says "what happens when we don't bail banks out" - and you can show exactly what happens. In this specific case it's an excellent rebuff to your stock right wing media-fed opinion.

This included the British taxpayer, who's side I got the impression you were on.

I'm on the side of the little man whatever country he comes from. And if you were on the side of the british taxpayer you'd not be quite so eager to agree with the government's rush to bail out the already-rich with taxpayers money.

 

[Trem]

I would still live in Iceland in a heartbeat.

 

[Tom]

I've long fancied cycling around the entire coast of Iceland.

 

[Talivar]

Out of curiosity how much does everyone earn and where do they live?, Do we have a clear divide or do we have ppl on high income jobs defending the poor and ppl on low income jobs defending the rich ect

 

[Talivar]

For me i am in a public Sector Job on £21.5k, live in Grimsby and seem to lean towards wanting a change in government and have a mistrust of the super rich and Banks

 

[Raven]

I earn enough. Live in the Midlands (not the shit bit, I live in the East) and live reasonably comfy, more money is always good though. I don't particularly trust the Tories but I voted for them because they were by far and away less shit than Labour. That's pretty depressing in itself.

I think the public sector is still a bloated waste of tax payers money, for the most part. Far too much management, far too much bureaucracy. Obviously parts of it do an essential job, when they are allowed to get on with it. I am also fed up of them moaning about pay rises. Most in the private sector miss out lately too. Personally my wages have gone up around 10k-15k in the last few recession years but that's because I have gone out of my way to be essential to the business by taking on various internal projects etc, pretty much the same position (same fucking desk!) as when I started at this company 8 years ago. Generally speaking the annual rise has been 1-1.5% for other staff.

I am now thinking of changing jobs in January and I reckon I can stick another 10k on my expected salary, from looking around at whats available.

 

[DaGaffer]

I just looked it up and for household income we'd be considered well off in Ireland (top 4%), slightly less for disposable income (top 5%). Don't actually consider myself "rich"; don't drive a fancy car, not taking expensive holidays, but that's partly because I'm the sole breadwinner with two young kids right now so I'm kind of risk-averse about taking on unnecessary debt. My attitude would be very pro-progressive taxation and I don't think I, or anyone in Ireland pays the taxes appropriate to the level of public services they expect; they want Scandinavia on American tax levels and they can't have it. Having said that, I'd be less generous with social welfare, and invest more in healthcare. In particular I'd also take a shitload out of social welfare to put into childcare; we have, by quite a long way, the most expensive childcare costs in Europe, which coupled with the social welfare payments means that women can't make going back to work pay unless they're earning ridiculously high salaries (e.g. nearly 40 grand in Dublin!). It's absolute madness, but that's true about a lot of policies in Ireland, its all very incoherent and inconsistent.

 

[Raven]

We have expensive childcare yet the staff barely make minimum wage. Its a shit industry to work in and thankfully my wife is on her way out (into teaching so only marginally better) My wife has a list of qualifications as long as your arm, including a degree, senco (special needs stuff) qualifications, 2 HNDs and is currently studying for her teaching qualifications. She gets paid about 16k for looking after 2-4 year olds, most of whom come from a disadvantaged back ground, most don't speak English and have behavioral issues of some sort or another. She has been doing that about 20 years now. The amount of stress involved is silly.

 

[Moriath]

Not just child care thats expenssive. Elderly care and any social care is expensive. I would want more money into those to make them cheaper rather than child care. You should plan and budget to have children these days. Its optional how many you have etc. I cant escape getting older and inless i die early will have no choice about paying care costs as infirmity takes hold.

 

[Gwadien]

We have expensive childcare yet the staff barely make minimum wage. Its a shit industry to work in and thankfully my wife is on her way out (into teaching so only marginally better) My wife has a list of qualifications as long as your arm, including a degree, senco (special needs stuff) qualifications, 2 HNDs and is currently studying for her teaching qualifications. She gets paid about 16k for looking after 2-4 year olds, most of whom come from a disadvantaged back ground, most don't speak English and have behavioral issues of some sort or another. She has been doing that about 20 years now. The amount of stress involved is silly.

Expensive childcare is because of the ridiculous ratios which Nurseries require - I think it's 2 kids to 1 staff or something, so you're basically going to pay half a wage & costs, it's quite ridiculous.

I remember watching a thing about life in Germany, could have been niche, but some Nursery or Kindergarten had like 30 odd kids between about 5 adults, they took them out to the forest to fuck around, if they hurt theirselves, it was a learning experience, get on with it.

Not just child care thats expenssive. Elderly care and any social care is expensive. I would want more money into those to make them cheaper rather than child care. You should plan and budget to have children these days. Its optional how many you have etc. I cant escape getting older and inless i die early will have no choice about paying care costs as infirmity takes hold.

I disagree, but that's probably us being selfish on both of our parts - You don't have kids, and I intend on having kids one day.

expensive childcare means that people stop working - you stop working - you have more benefits - more strain on the country - and less people in work.

It makes sense from all perspectives to have cheaper childcare.

EDIT - You could put both into the same category by saying why don't families do more to help?

EDIT x2 - Also, can't you argue that you knew you were getting old, so you should have saved & budgeted for that?

 

[DaGaffer]

Not just child care thats expenssive. Elderly care and any social care is expensive. I would want more money into those to make them cheaper rather than child care. You should plan and budget to have children these days. Its optional how many you have etc. I cant escape getting older and inless i die early will have no choice about paying care costs as infirmity takes hold.

You can plan and budget all you like, but if the cost of child care means it makes more economic sense to stay at home, there's something wrong with the system. The point of childcare should be to encourage women into the labour force; in Ireland it does the opposite.

As for care of the elderly etc. that's actually a separate argument; childcare is actually a straightforward economic argument, social, and in particular, care of the elderly, is a societal argument. You can make the childcare costs pay back to the economy and they should be considered in that way.

 

[Job]

There literally are people, I know 2 myself, who's entire wife's wages go on childcare, so the kids can be brought up by someone else.

 

[DaGaffer]

There literally are people, I know 2 myself, who's entire wife's wages go on childcare, so the kids can be brought up by someone else.

My missus had to make that call only the other day, job was interesting, she wants to go back to work; money meant she'd literally be working for nothing (it was like €100 a month positive), and a couple of late nights delays picking up the kids and we'd be making a loss. And that's just absurd; its not like she was going for a job stacking shelves, it was management level.

 

[Gwadien]

My missus had to make that call only the other day, job was interesting, she wants to go back to work; money meant she'd literally be working for nothing (it was like €100 a month positive), and a couple of late nights delays picking up the kids and we'd be making a loss. And that's just absurd; its not like she was going for a job stacking shelves, it was management level.

I suppose depends on if she wants to sit at home doing fuck all or progress in a career earning fuck all, but by the time she leaves she might be at a higher level, or not.

 

[DaGaffer]

I suppose depends on if she wants to sit at home doing fuck all or progress in a career earning fuck all, but by the time she leaves she might be at a higher level, or not.

Try telling a mother of two kids under 5 she's sat at home doing fuck all. Go on, I dare you. I double dare you. I'll call the ambulance now. Going back to work only makes sense if there's a financial benefit, because it actually creates a buttload of other problems.

 

[Gwadien]

Try telling a mother of two kids under 5 she's sat at home doing fuck all. Go on, I dare you. I double dare you. I'll call the ambulance now. Going back to work only makes sense if there's a financial benefit, because it actually creates a buttload of other problems.

I meant fuck all in progression in any career and such.

I'd imagine you're not married to the kind of person that puts on facebook that she's a full time mummy.

 

[Trem]

I earn nothing and have nothing coming in, no benefits, nada. My wife works and pays everything but I pay £50 per week into the joint account from my savings. We have no mortgage. I live in glorious Newcastle-under-Lyme which is basically Stoke (North Midlands).

Not sure how that is useful to anything though.

Edit - Oh and what @DaGaffer said, childcare is a million times tougher than any job on so many levels, you don't get a break for starters, it's the most valuable thing you will ever handle etc. Women and men who do it with pre-school kids need a medal, but only those that do it to have kids for the right reasons, not the scum that pop them out for monetary reasons, they can fuck off because their primary reason is to sit in front of Jeremy Kyle daily while the child shits and screams and gets ignored

Edit 2 - Then....FUCKING THEN when they send their brood off to school they are still so bastard idle they simply *must* be within 7 cm of the school gates to collect their Rihanna or Rylan, honestly I see it every morning and night. Theres this one cow who can't walk right because her thighs touch so she has to walk like she has planks of wood in her trousers, she does about 70mph along the road to get the best space EVERY DAY. Then I was walking behind another one the other week and she had a vest on and she had an actual arse on her back, a proper pair of back buttocks.

Fucking DaGaffer always pushes my buttons the bastard

 

[DaGaffer]

I meant fuck all in progression in any career and such.

I'd imagine you're not married to the kind of person that puts on facebook that she's a full time mummy.

Its all well and good but "investing" in your career shouldn't have to be at someone else's expense (e.g. mine) FWIW I don't believe in internships either, and for similar reasons.

 

[Job]

The woman across the road does child care, all registered and that. I see the women dropping off the kids, every single one of them looks totally frazzled.

To see how things have changed, my mother was working for the dick board when she was carrying me, one of the managers complained he was repulsed by her pregnant belly, she was fired a week later because she was deemed unfit for work.

 

[Gwadien]

The woman across the road does child care, all registered and that. I see the women dropping off the kids, every single one of them looks totally frazzled.

To see how things have changed, my mother was working for the dick board when she was carrying me, one of the managers complained he was repulsed by her pregnant belly, she was fired a week later because she was deemed unfit for work.

I'd be repulsed if I saw someone pregnant with you though.

Harsh

Sorry

xx

 

[DaGaffer]

The woman across the road does child care, all registered and that. I see the women dropping off the kids, every single one of them looks totally frazzled.

To see how things have changed, my mother was working for the dick board when she was carrying me, one of the managers complained he was repulsed by her pregnant belly, she was fired a week later because she was deemed unfit for work.

"dick board"? What?

 

[Moriath]

Having children is a choice, most times. Planned and budgetted for, if you are responsible. If you want a career and children then you have to pay for it. The carers need to make moneyto live on too.

Its not necessary that both parents work. Its a choice that you make and budget for. If your pay doesnt allow it then you cant do it. So choose children or career.

Wah its not fair i want everything. Lifes not fair.

I have two step children 21 and 16. And part of what i earn goes to them even though they dont live with us full time.