A Discussion

[liloe]

Why are AC raids so bad? Well, first of all I think that the whole concept of relics is badly planned, which then leads to AC raids.

Taking a relic nowadays merely means to get 3 different keeps and then take the relic out of the shrine. Sure, keeps have their own guards, but the PvE code is extremely bad in this game, thus keepguards quickly fall to an organized group. I say that AC raids are considered lame, because when few players are involved, chances are much worse to defend. How does this come? Well, the AC raids everyone talks about on the cluster is an organized group with some adds taking the relic, with a few defenders left. The point is, that the often poorly equipped defenders can never match an RR10+ group which has access to a full set of abilities. Having guards that act extremely stupid doesn't really help on that issue aswell. So for that part, AC'ing is lame because tactical advantages tend to disappear, thus negating crucial aspects of the game. The same situation doesn't occur when it's 100 vs. 100 people, cause then there will be good and bad people on both sides, seperated by walls that give a real tactical advantage in that case. In a low scale scenario, a single climb wall class healed from below can deal great havoc, whereas in a large scale scenario, the climb wall classes can just make the difference it takes to interupt/kill healers so the major forces can break in, which is more the intention of these classes I think.

Let's go on to the "it's useless anyways" point. I can agree with your there, cause most people feel it's just so useless to retake relics with an organized force, when a small number of people can just take it back in a glimpse. It makes people become more negative about the relic situation and lowers the fun for those who successfully organized the whole thing. Planning a relic raid at primetime takes lots of effort and spirit to motivate all the people and to keep them together, listening to your commands. Anybody who succeeds at this task deserves more respect than a simple nightshift and compared to OF there are much less well-known RR leaders now.

It prevents choice. Yes, it definately does. It's the AC crew that decides where the action goes next and - no offense to anyone or any guild meant - it seems to me like if albs were in that position more often than other realms. Albs are slightly more players and I think overall a more willing population to gather some numbers to actually do something. I don't think this is a special cluster problem, as I've seen this on other servers aswell, that it was mostly Albs who took the initiative. But still, no matter which realm does it most often, there will be one realm showing the direction to go, thus limiting the diversity of RvR. While I played more often on the cluster, it mostly started with Albion taking Crim, then proceeding for the relic at night. What you can see there is like a template that always repeats, which makes RvR boring, causing people to quit or going to other servers. A lot of people are tired when their bridge is the hot-spot for weeks, but there is nothing you can do if one dominating realm pushes there all day and night long. The day after the AC it's still the same thing, fights go on in the frontier of the realm that has now less or no relics anymore, making it even harder to get something started at primetime. So contarily to what you say, I don't think the hotspots move around, but they stay in the same area all the time. If you had to complete special tasks in other frontiers to take a specific relic, then this would be the case, but as it is, relic taking is too straight forward.

Imbalances from having a relic is also something that makes people hate AC raids. Like I said before, little effort is needed to get the relics, but a 10% damage boost is a LOT and you can definately feel the difference. So in that case, the work/effect ratio is just plain wrong. A small group can get a massive bonus for a whole realm and that's really not working as intended I think.

So there is the issue with people not being able to take part in late night defenses cause of other duties. While it is true that there are often situations where one can't take part in a special event, most of these events are things that can be done any time of the day. You will find artifact encounters, ML raids and RvR all day long, so no matter if you work or go to school, you can always fit something into your schedule if you want to. AC'ing on the other hand is a thing which the majority of the player base can not do anything against (or take part if you want to say so). It's an event that can't be re-scheduled, cause then the purpose would be void of course. Essentially it leave this kind of event to a few players that have no private obligations and value some relics over sleep. Sure you can say that everybody has their values, but an MMoRPG is also defined as a community which has mutual respect. If some players don't care for their health of any private things, then it shouldn't affect the other 95%+ in such a big way. There is a difference between hardcore gaming for the challenge and AC'ing relics simply because you can do it and nobody can hinder you. Ok, that point might be a bit of lesser interest some might say, but it's my personal view.

So one last thought about AC'ing relics. The big problem with DAoC is, that on the GOA servers we play in around 2-3 timezones at max. That's GMT, CET and EET. The maximum difference here is 2 hours, which is really not much. The game itself is from the US though, where the difference between the east and the west coast is 5 hours (if I'm not totally wrong). This means that the game was designed for a much more flowing chain of action, because when the late crew logs out on one side, the early crew on the other side logs in. The GOA servers thus have no means to provide a permanent flow of defenders and the weaknesses of the system are becoming very visible.

 

[Asha]

Raven.
I'm not going to endlessly debate this because it isn't the point of this thread. However you are incorrect on a number of assumptions. You assume that we had no direct logged evidence as to the motives of the peopel involved and that we only reacted because of complaints on the forum. I said it at the time and I'll say it again, if we did not have absolute evidence for the reason that those two individuals lowered Renaris we would have done nothing. We don't take 'confessions' on a forum into account and neither do we base policy on whine. We investigated using logs and tools from our systems and took action based on a clear indication that a definite line had been crossed. Regardless of why they felt they had to do what they did, their actions were wrong.

This is fucking hilarious. First the fact that you take it to be grief play when there is NO OTHER course of action that could possibly be taken other than QUITTING Albion (which has now happened with all parties involved, meaning one less group on the server, which had a domino effect on several other groups of very active players). Second that you have all this "evidence", which I take to mean some chat log. Do you go through all chat logs and determine that someone has a bad "motive" ... without even bothering to talk to the people involved... wtf is going on here?

 

[Asha]

true they weren't but with more and more access to the internet they are discovering online play. with any mmo it has to evolve more often than not this means adding more content to keep existing players interested and advancing their toon/s. wow appeals to casual players too as its a pve focused game. i think if daoc was released now and was advertised it would blow wow away, if mythic get it right they will do this with WaR (its a big if)

yes but so many people have been exposed to mmorpg's since wow was such a big hit, also there are young people who wouldn't have been able to play daoc when it first came out... they have not advertised in ages and ages.... in the usa I noticed that daoc isn't even in the generic stores anymore (I am sure it's in game stores). Seems weird because much older games are there...

I just wish they would advertise (not online) more in English speaking Europe...

 

[kirennia]

I have to ask, at what level would lowering a keep be considered as 'greif play'? If a guild were to lower it to level 9 and then say 'har, that'll teach these albs that we don't like AC raids!' would they be banned for intent to greif? If not then what about level 8, level 7 etc etc... And if they would then what about ANYone using the /rude command as its intent is to simply annoy/grief those who they do the command to.

That's the point, no boundaries were set prior to this and rather then posting on the homepage saying 'sorry guys but you can't just do this', you simply temporarily banned two players after having said previously that lowering the level of a keep was ALLOWED!

Shike.
You're partially right about the reasons we don't declare AC raiding is grief play. If we did make that call then we'd need a transparent policy to back it up. There would have to be clearly understood lines that denoted whether a particular raid was 'griefing' or not. The criteria aren't clear. How do you define an AC raid from the point of view of the CoC?

If that is true then why are there absolutely NO transparently clear guidelines on what you do with keeps being determined as greif play? There isn't even a rough guideline and the ONLY thing said about lowering keeps levels was in freddyshouse and to 2 players. If sollers had not of come here and said anything, the community would not have known any different.

If forums can't be actively used against a player if they do something wrong, then why has nothing been said about lowering keeps in the news or in the code of conduct which people seem to quote everytime some guideline is unclear.

This is one big greivance I've had over the whole situation...

 

[knighthood]

Were Dooooomed captain mainwaring.... Doooomed

 

[Kagato]

Ok, first of, and I probably should of said this earlier, I'd like to thank Requiel for actually taking the time and effort to make this thread and giving the general player base some sign of interest from GOA's part in the atmosphere and health of the cluster, despite the obvious flaming he's opening himself up for.

Now back on topic, whilst theres several minor points I disagree with him on, the grief play is not one of them.

I don't think AC raids can fairly be regarded as griefing, whatever the motive.
For a start, you'd need to correctly define AC raids, and there hasn't been a true AC raid since Old Frontiers, AC raids are Alarm Clock raids, and its been years since anyway has cared so much that they have actually organised a full relic force to get up at a set time and raid a relic keep in the morning. The majority of what people call 'AC' Raids now are just groups of people that have stayed up RvRing later then most other players, alarm clocks not involved.
Secondly, some people seem to be saying that these raids are griefing because the raiders only want to piss of the enemy realm.
Whilst its true, as I stated in my first post, that pissing of the enemy can and may be a big incentive, it is not the only incentive. There is always going to be a big or small reward for the raid (depending on what value you place on the relic) besides whatever emotions you wish to inflict on the enemy.

I stated before in my first post that I wanted piss of the mids, which is true, but I also had a large incentive in wanting to avenge the Renaris incident (a seperate debate im not going to get into) which would in fact be counter-griefing.
But I also only needed 1 more relic to earn my Relic Soldier title, which was a huge incentive for raid too, as I like having rare titles.
And wether I care about relics or not, its still worthwhile stopping mids from having +10% melee.

Thats 4 goals to go ahead with the raid, without even considering the fact that I did not ever expect to actually succeed until we had finally killed the lord.
So how can anyone realistically say without doubt that the raid would be only a griefing raid when theres so many incentives besides pissing of the enemy to do it?

Nearly every single siege you take part in, theres going to be a part of you saying "this'll piss those albs/hibs/mids off ! "

Its part of being at war with each other, and to be honest, since most of us now play on 2 or even 3 realms on the same cluster, and do actually have to talk to the enemy whom normally we'd never have to face, i'd say the attitudes to one another are probably better then they ever have been.

 

[Caylan Raal]

To your other point about upping relic guards or putting in additional mechanisms, that boils down to the 'go tell it to Mythic'

I think the player base in general has a feeling that keep guards should be able to deal with 1 or 2 grps. How to go about that is hard to say ... suggest more guards ? higher level guards? Maybee have it so that most current guards alive in the keep congregate in the courtyard once the outer door is down, or any other ideas apparant. But as a player putting forth a suggestion to mythic is likely to be ignored unless the majority of players accross the majority of servers are of the same mind .

As to people putting forward their ideas in this thread which you created... I beleive its in the hope that maybee should we convince GOA, then could GOA not put the views to mythic ? The difference between a player making a point and mythics partner in eurpoe making a point on behalf of the collective playerbase, is simply that mythic are likely to be more inclined to listen...

Im aware its not really the direct role of GOA to express players' opinions on their behalf. But in regards to this scenario having mythic increase the keeps defense someway would help to deter small AC gangs, but make little difference to the mass keep seiges primetime, which was the intention on NF was it not?

 

[Sharkith]

Kagato,

Requiel's definition of grief play is in fact identical to the one I posted earlier. It is about motive and that is what makes it extremely difficult to deal with. You clearly stated your motive and you are clearly being honest you were aiming to grief others - you call it counter griefing well thats a very important distinction and we should understand your reasons for that because clearly it is significant for the health of the server. It was still griefing and thats a fact by the definition given earlier. Obviously it means to some extent we have a cycle of grief and counter griefing now because there is a driving motive to really get at people through the game mechanics.

As for having a range of reasons for the raids. Indeed thats true it is not 'monocausal' as someone very nicely put in an earlier thread on the incident. This could all be covered by a charter so that we can try to moderate ourselves what can be done - half of the issue is that we are not in control of the situation. All we need to do is get the situation under control and then if one happens now and then who cares? Movement of relics was always good for RvR it would be good if it went back to that.

Once more this brings us back to the issue Kagato and that is whilst Requiel and I agree on the definition of grief play (the overriding factor is motive) he has my total sympathy that this is virtually impossible to police. In other words we should not be relying on GOA to police the server we have to try and find a decision that is community based and generated.

Now we can rely on GOA to sort it out or we can try to do something.

This brings me to Bracken. Sure the majority of people do not post or read the forums. That does not mean we cannot act to try show what we think is a good solution and communicate that in a positive way to others. They should be invited to comment on it if they feel strongly about it after all it is through open debate these things work better.

The majority of people do not play FG RvR and yet we had a healthy scene here for quite a while - all because we arranged it through these forums. People showed respect for each other and we had some of the best FG action we ever had. There was still some bad blood between people with different styles of play - I think that will always be the case but this is a bigger thing. This has actively damaged the server and led to over 100 avtice RvR people leaving.

The server is still bleeding members every day Requiel has denied it is a problem 'yet' which indicates to me he knows that there is a downward trend. It is why we really should have produced something and done so positively before. Perhaps then GOA would have done nothing else but allow us to try and sort it out?

Sharkith

 

[Castus]

Unfortunately tomorrow I'm flying to Milan to promote the game to Italian journalists and on Friday I'm off on holiday for 3 weeks so I won't be able to take as active a part in this discussion as I'd like. I will however keep reading this thread when I get the chance and will respond as I can. Just don't expect me to be sat spamming f5 to respond to every point.

Theres part of the 'population problem' resolution.Save your money on a jolly to Italy and do some promotion to UK journalists instead!

 

[Gahn]

Theres part of the 'population problem' resolution.Save your money on a jolly to Italy and do some promotion to UK journalists instead!

Ya know they got Italian Customers too -.-

 

[Kagato]

Now we can rely on GOA to sort it out or we can try to do something.

But its not really GOA's problem, and for that matter its not really up to us to sort it out either, assuming you actually believe theres something to sort out.

Its simply the way that game, and new frontiers in particular, is designed, which comes down exactly to what Requiel said about pushing Mythic to do something about it.

Now im not keen on AC raids either, i'd love the entire keep/siege system to be different. I can tolerate how it is now but i'd like things to be different, but this is not anything GOA can do, it needs major in-game changes that GOA, even if their heart is in the right place, have no power over.

Whats more theres nothing really we can do about it either realistically.

What we need is for Mythic themselves to address the problem, which they can do in a number of ways.

I do not think AC raids should be 'impossible' but they ought to be made so damn difficult that its highly unlikely anyone would bother to do them. A few simple changes to the way that keep guards work is all that would be needed.

For example, having the spawn rate of guards and the numbers of guards increasing or decreasing with the active on-line population of the realm for one would help, so the more people that log out at night the more npc defense a keep would have. (something that could also be adjusted in line with realm population).

Bringing back those beloved Uber relic guards from old frontiers that would spawn in relation to the realms keeps owned and the levels of those keeps. BUT instead tie them in with a keeps 4 towers instead. This means all towers would play a more essential role in the defense of the keep. (I have posted more details about this in other threads so wont go indepth into this).

Bring back a system similer to the old Corpse Summoner we used to have so that out numbered defenders can still get inside a keep when all entrances are camped or blocked.

 

[Soulja_IA_]

I Got to laugh really Requiel looks at logs etc sees there was action to take against TT for lowering a keeps level ok all well and good.

But if that is against the SOTG and Grief playing WHY WAS NOTHING Done against the Mid who before NF was introduced and they took Alb Relic from Dagda and placed it at the front of APK in Emain ???? is this not some sort of Grief play deliberatly dropping a Relic for an enemy realm to pick up not against the SOTG.Was this not X realming to help an opposing realm.

I Took this as an example at time everyone thought it was Hilarious but no action was ever taken against these but because a guild lowers a keep and 1 Person (Muyl) decides to rightnow them GOA Become Oh High and mighty.

What Requiel does not understand is that this small % of people AC Keeps/Relics is Grief playing as especially on Hib there are around maybe 5 People on during them hours through the night it takes 16 to lower a relic in the shrine.

Hib Population is very low we struggling when going to renaris to retake our relic and find it nearly impossible we could all set our Alarm Clocks and do it that way BUT we seem to have a sense of fair play unlike the early morning crew.

All I can see Requiel has done is given the Alarm Clockers a green light to carry on Fair play Requiel and from what I can see you play an Alb.


Soulja

 

[Sharkith]

But its not really GOA's problem, and for that matter its not really up to us to sort it out either, assuming you actually believe theres something to sort out.

Its simply the way that game, and new frontiers in particular, is designed, which comes down exactly to what Requiel said about pushing Mythic to do something about it.

I do think there is something to sort out I am shocked you continue at times to claim that there is nothing to sort out when you have admitted you did go to grief people recently and you managed to do it. Clearly we have to sort it out and then lay the whole thing to rest. Bury the hatchet and lay some simple guidelines and most of all try to respect each other from now on over this issue.

I believe firmly that finding that solution will say a lot about this community and make it a more attractive place to play and with the release of a new expansion coming the time is right for it.

It is simple Kagato Mythic and GOA cannot do anything right now. We can - as long as we are being constructive then no-one can blame us for trying. Companies like these only go where the cash is and if they can see that something in the game design is hurting them then they will respond.

Now im not keen on AC raids either, i'd love the entire keep/siege system to be different. I can tolerate how it is now but i'd like things to be different, but this is not anything GOA can do, it needs major in-game changes that GOA, even if their heart is in the right place, have no power over.

Whats more theres nothing really we can do about it either realistically.

What we need is for Mythic themselves to address the problem, which they can do in a number of ways.

I do not think AC raids should be 'impossible' but they ought to be made so damn difficult that its highly unlikely anyone would bother to do them. A few simple changes to the way that keep guards work is all that would be needed.

For example, having the spawn rate of guards and the numbers of guards increasing or decreasing with the active on-line population of the realm for one would help, so the more people that log out at night the more npc defense a keep would have. (something that could also be adjusted in line with realm population).

Bringing back those beloved Uber relic guards from old frontiers that would spawn in relation to the realms keeps owned and the levels of those keeps. BUT instead tie them in with a keeps 4 towers instead. This means all towers would play a more essential role in the defense of the keep. (I have posted more details about this in other threads so wont go indepth into this).

Bring back a system similer to the old Corpse Summoner we used to have so that out numbered defenders can still get inside a keep when all entrances are camped or blocked.

We can do something - it would not be perfect but it would help protect the community spirit from fuckwits like Horner who will continue to attack the community as long as that fucker can.

All of these are very constructive comments and should be considered by GOA and Mythic. However the server needs something right now - not in 6 months from now when they finally listen.

One other thing how many cases of this kind of thing are there on other servers? That would help us immensely.

 

[Behmoth]

RvR population is actually more balanced than most people would think it is. In the Frontier right this moment, the Mids are outnumbering the Albs by about 4 to 3, no realm is too large to take on.

Thank you for reading.

ok where is hib in this eqation as it seems hib has been hit harder than anyone?

but yes on the part rvr is not too bad. i think people just can't be arsed when they spen 8 hours on a RR only for CM/KF to AC it back in 2 hours silly o'clock in the morning

 

[Sollac]

im probably repeating another post, but old relic guards used to ne based on the number of keeps held if i remember correctly.

so rather than just knocking holes in keeps and stuff and killing lords...keeps had to be planned.

these days its just take em all and go for it.

personally i would to see :

more defences for relic keep....bloody stupid idea to have no walls and gates on the relic keep itself.

be like keeping the crown jewels in a public park than the tower of london.

if these relics are as precious as they are to the game, then why have a keep with no gates or walls and you just need to stand still with a few fg....

dumb.

the introduction of the mile gates for relics a good idea but surely they should have guards on them..

basically more guards and higher levels of guards......elite guards would be posted to defend the national treasures in real life, surely some logic must prevail.

Originally Posted by Requiel
To your other point about upping relic guards or putting in additional mechanisms, that boils down to the 'go tell it to Mythic'

Surely this is your job as you work for GOA, and therefore work in partnership with Mythic?

But then you must have the power to add mobs as you can do it when you please to stop duels etc etc,

Making relics harder to take will stop the 1-5fg of any realm taking them in the first place, make them earn the relic rather than just take some keeps.

Overall GOA are doing an ok job, but only an OK job. They need to look at what they can do to make the situation better for all.

1. raisel level/increase number of relic gaurdians.
2. put mages ands such at relic mile gates.
3. fortify the shrines (perhaps make the mile gates siegeable, but only become vulnerable if 3 keeps have been taken ?).
4. the idea of hookpoints is wasted in a keep /tower unless you spend the time and effort and bp/coin wandering around each keep doing it yourself
make this automatic with a keep/ tower lvl increase. as it was in OF.
as a lvl 10 keep can be taken by 1fg if undefended....this was not possible in OF iirc.

 

[Bracken]

Sure the majority of people do not post or read the forums. That does not mean we cannot act to try show what we think is a good solution and communicate that in a positive way to others. They should be invited to comment on it if they feel strongly about it after all it is through open debate these things work better.

We can do what we want, but for a long-term, sustainable solution it requires everyone, or atleast the vast majority of those who play the game to be involved in it - and as you said the majority simply aren't interested in this forum. Even IF we managed to get full agreement on these boards (which isn't going to happen for the reasons I said earlier), the moment a group that doesn't read these forums decides to do an off-peak rr the whole thing would quickly unravel. Which is why we should concentrate on pressing for game mechanic based solutions. I know it's been said that only Mythic can do this, but I can't help but thinking that within the remit that GOA have (in which they are allowed to do in-game events) solutions could be found. After all it is not in Mythic's interest to see a server decline and if a "work around" could be found that prevents AC raids and improves the atmosphere on a server then I'd be highly surprised if they didn't back it.

 

[Achilles]

This has probably been said already but i having read 7 pages i am a little bored now. I dont think it is about limiting choice, its unfair because people are at work whatever etc etc. Its about consideration and trying to maintain the game for everyone. This is even more important than ever with the population of cluster ~ 1/8 of its original size. On one level, zerg players have to give a shit about fg players, fg players have to give a shit about solo players etc. On a realm Vs realm level, the realms have to give a shit about each other.... its not real war! The game is only fun with the enemy so in my mind you want to keep him happy. Thats why AC'ing relics the most infuriatingly stupid thing people can do.

 

[Sollac]

iirc didnt goa not allow the instant change from one realm to another UNLIKE MYTHIC!!!!

therefore they have a say in the servers...and can act differently to mythic.

can you confirm this requiel?

also bring back the named captains at the keeps, not the lords but the captians that would help defend the keeps and respawn quickly.

I think thats part of the issue guards dont respawn quick enuff any more....

once they die thats pretty much it...where as before gaurds would resapwn very quickly on high level keeps..

 

[Tip]

I have a Plan - Requiel tell Goa that the uk cluster is a waste of time, then you sell to me (very cheaply ofc) the server and rights to uk cluster, I will host it, I will spend a few quid on advertising, make myself level 100 and go kill everyone, now that sounds fun

 

[rampant]

i wonder which game requiel is going to promote in italy?

 

[pip]

Well reading this thread it is all clear that Ac'ing is wrong yes?

But hay Requiel thinks it is ok so i quess we ignore the rest of the community
and it must be ok

There is no malice in this post just the facts

 

[wittor]

Here's the definiation of owned for you, seems right to me.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/owned

Tam

Yes, because the deleted posts were on topic

 

[Sharkith]

We can do what we want, but for a long-term, sustainable solution it requires everyone, or atleast the vast majority of those who play the game to be involved in it - and as you said the majority simply aren't interested in this forum. Even IF we managed to get full agreement on these boards (which isn't going to happen for the reasons I said earlier), the moment a group that doesn't read these forums decides to do an off-peak rr the whole thing would quickly unravel.

I don't think it would unravel so easily because like I said if it is a voluntary agreement and done constructively as the best solution we can have for now then it is worth trying. It is better to have tried and failed than to have done nothing at all other than wait for others to help. At least you have people working together rather than whining together and losing.

It is the self defeatist apporoach that will ensure the cluster gets worse.

Other solutions could also be sought at the same time many of those have been suggested already.

On Pry.net we have been told that a similar thing happened on Merlin cluster - a guild lowered a relic keep to 1 because basically Albs had dominated and it was killing RvR. Guess what? No-one got banned.... and RvR pretty much continued as usual

I would be interested in finding links to any discussions on that.

 

[Jupitus]

>>>tamtap and others... it is me who has been deleting your off topic crap from this thread.

GOA don't own FH, but this is the closest thing to an official forum for DAOC, and as such we grant mod rights to the GOA GMs. The community are fortunate that the GOA GMs post here with information and/or feedback, and when they are trying to be constructive in this way I won't tolerate people spamming and insulting them.

Keep to the subject guys, and behave yourselves... the banstick will be used, no more warnings.

 

[wittor]

>>>tamtap and others... it is me who has been deleting your off topic crap from this thread.

GOA don't own FH, but this is the closest thing to an official forum for DAOC, and as such we grant mod rights to the GOA GMs. The community are fortunate that the GOA GMs post here with information and/or feedback, and when they are trying to be constructive in this way I won't tolerate people spamming and insulting them.

Keep to the subject guys, and behave yourselves... the banstick will be used, no more warnings.

I feel an incoming link from a dictionary website.

Well reading this thread it is all clear that Ac'ing is wrong yes?

But hay Requiel thinks it is ok so i quess we ignore the rest of the community
and it must be ok

Hmm don't think Requiel said that it was ok, he said it was quite "lame" in his first post and that he never went to one ..?

 

[Jupitus]

I feel an incoming link from a dictionary website.

He's banned - you want one too?

 

[Cromcruaich]

let me recontrusct you phrase my friend :

ac raids were - are and will be done till mythic says daoc ---> shut down
the only difference is were not a big issue as it is now because low population at thease days.

anyway one more thing before closing. Kagata said the most perfect and wise thing so far in FH : care less about relics and you will be more happy.

Lets hope the AC lot take that advice as well and leave them the fuck alone except for around primetime.

This isnt directed at CM by the way, overall youve done your best on the whole over the last 5 months to keep out of the AC raids etc.

 

[edabi]

I've some thoughts by the post of Requiel.
First I want to remark that Requiel post his personal view about the AC raids, he call them lame. I think a game master should keep his personal view for himself when he speaks in name of GOA.
It isn't the playerbase that should find a solution to this problem either, it's the sole reponsability of the game designer. No one force someone to play the game, you can like or dislike the design.
I've already send 3 different mails in the past with new ideas for new extentions to GOA and got the answer I've to send them directly to Mythic, what I did. From Mythic I got the answer that they don't host the European servers and that I should address me to GOA. What a laugh. As a customer of GOA I can expect that they do the forwarding to Mythic.
The such called problem of AC raids is solely due to the low playerbase, what is the result of non advertising. GOA should understand they have a golden game in hands, but when no one knows about it, no one will subscribe to it either. But due that the new extenstions everytime add new experience to gain, it's hard for new players, and even older players, to catch up with it. Even the easy way of gaining experience on a lower stage isn't of that kind to let new players catch up with those that play the game already for 5 years.
But what no one remarked yet is that due the AC raids there is alot more of activity in rvr the last days, and I'm sure we all benefited a huge amount of rp out of it. Then my question is that those AC raids time by time doesn't bring benefit ro all ?
It aren't only the AC raids that piss of players, but also bug abuses, overpowered classes, zerging and so on. So shouldn't they be discussed too then ?
Some bugs trails now already for over more as a year in the game, and nothing seems to been done to fix them. Shouldn't it be wise to attack those first, instead of inventing new things to avoid these AC raids.
I understand it isn't fun to log in and see that the huge work done has been turned in a couple of hours by a few, but this is due the lack of players on the cluster. If more players have a subscription, the chance is bigger that some are playing around the clock.
Also the lot of people that have left the cluster to reroll elsewhere are at the base of the current problem. The game has been designed for a certain amount of players, and im' sure we are below that number on the english cluster.
Anyway whatever design chance should occur I stay, I'm not going to reroll somewhere else and respending a huge of time to redo what I did already before.
But due the experience of how GOA is treatening his customers I can already promise that I take a subscription on Warhammer in the US when it comes out, to avoid similar problems in the future.

 

[wittor]

He's banned - you want one too?

Sure, I havn't been banned this year yet.

PS: I stayed on topic in my other reply so no need to threat me like that!

...sure, after the edit! - Jup.

 

[Sollers]

Sure, I havn't been banned this year yet.

..which is quite an achievement really Think everyone agrees with me that witte deserves a get-out-of-ban-free-card for this

more on topic: Will any other GM or GoA representative join in on this discussion now that Req. is unable too please?