A Discussion

[Muylaetrix]

- you generalize too much when you say `both sides`

• Both sides admit that the TT thing should have been handled by the community differently.

from a roleplay point of view, there unfortunately are no ingame means as an alb to take the keep back from the traitors and kill the traitors.

other ingame reactions of protest would just be other forms of griefplay on themselves and would just have been as lame. i don`t think TT would have enjoyed it if wherever a char of their went, a fg of unhappy albs would have followed him or whenever they worked as a fg they ould have a zerg on stick. thanks god it didn`t have to come to this.

further things like our /as banning each and everyone from TT on anything our alliance does pve or pvp, sigh, we don`t want that shit.

and it was 5 days suspensions, people have been suspended before, get over it.

 

[Cromcruaich]

and it was 5 days suspensions, people have been suspended before, get over it.

I refer you to posts ive made about why 'getting over it' isn't going to happen for some of us.

People should of just 'got over' the keep being set to level one, but they didn't, but enough petty points scoring.

Self policing would of been TT not again being given the opportunity to claim again, but again (and again and again) its not the TT action that is the problem - its the way it was subsequently handled.

As shark points out, things are probably more amicable now between the community than they ever have been (though kagato is still as bloody minded about the whole thing as you'd expect - though i dont let that affect my ingame attitude to him) - its the relationship between GoA and the team who control the English server in particular that is seriously damaged.

 

[Belgorian]

Worse still they have right here in this thread had the arrogance to go on an say the game is more important than you.

Have you ever thought about moving into politics? The actual quote was:

"Sometimes the community is more important than the game, othertimes it isnt"

The game is the business, the community are the customers. Customers are the lifeblood of any business, but you cannot run a business by only making decisions that will be popular with all your customers. Sometimes the interest of the business and the interest of the customers will conflict.

I can totally see the point that Requiel made, stop trying to twist things to fuel your little fire.

_____________________
Belgorian LVL50 Armsman
RR9L6-Guildmaster of LOE
and thoroughly nice chap!!

 

[Shike]

get over it.

hmm, I guess thats why there was 450 ppl online on UKcluster last night at 19.00 cet.

The looser in this debate is nomatter how you twist or turn it, the server. Argue that it is right to suspend people for stating their point of view, argue whatever, sum of all ends is, cluster is now even closer to death than it ever was before. One can argue that.. if the result is death of the server, is it a good thing to suspend those who state an opinion? In this particular case I dont think it is a good thing, there are no winners, not even hardheaded Kagato since soon, you lot are all gonna be having wineparties with the french, or yell huhu and warum!

I usually think like this, if something isnt bad by the rules, is it by definition then good to do it? Even if that supposedly good thing to do is causing collateral damage? Even if it hurts everyone involved more than it does good? My simple answer ontop of my head is no. A per definition right thing to do isnt always right, on the contrary, it can be bad, very bad as recent events these last months has showed us all, result is a rapidly dying cluster. No AC nor suspension nor griefplay by anyone did ever aid in bringing cluster up again.

On one side we have some people like Muylatrix, who bash their chest and believe they have participated in doing something good (thats how it appears at least, imho). Good thinking.. lol?

On the other side we have others that just moved to another server with 3k ppl online in the evenings with plenty RVRaction, no idiots ACraiding everytime things arent as they want, etc..

Who.. are the real winners in this case? Well, I dont think Muylatrix for example is a winner in any way at all. End of story. Hopefully some people have learnt some things through this, some havent learnt anything as usual but, I do hope a majority of us all have learnt a thing or two about the dynamics on a MMOserver.

 

[Sharkith]

lol and so it comes full circle. Belgorian the statement made is not clear because it turns on a distinction and so can be read in two ways. If your trying to clarify things you should avoid that kind of language. You might see one meaning I see something else if it was not meant like I understood it the person concerned is more than welcome to correct me.

Conway that was a very good thoughtful response I think you misunderstood some of my comments - they certainly were not directed at you (nerf posting when you are totally plastered). You will find that GOA were very interested and in fact keen to see what a magazine Journalist would make of this whole thing. I informed them very early on in the process. In fact I am aware the situation has gone into one article (it might not make it through to copy though).

In fact there was a plan by the person concerned to make this kind of thing into a feature at some stage in the future. There are a lot of very important things that have happened here and it deserves decent discussion. Where I have acted badly I would think it important for example to reflect on that. I would like to see what a neutral would make of it and I would as always hope to learn from what they had to say. In fact GOA would do likewise I know because they seemed happy at the time that this contact had been initiated.

The end for me.
Sometimes when your in a situation working off a principle you can lose perspective and forget its people your talking about. I certainly feel I have done that and I am sorry for doing that Requiel.

The situation has now become very Kafkaesque and its time to realise when your doing more harm than good so I am going to drop it. I have said some things here I should not have said and thank you for pointing that out (all of you who have done this). The points have been made and I ought to have stopped some time ago. I will now.

Time for me to forget about DaoC, Freddys House and to move on and avoid ever getting into an issue this much again.

Take care its been fun trolling here and I wish you guys all the best in whatever you are doing.

 

[Conway]

Conway that was a very good thoughtful response I think you misunderstood some of my comments - they certainly were not directed at you (nerf posting when you are totally plastered).

You mentioned me three times in your post so I kind of assumed the comments and demands for answers were directed at me and replied. So you were posting when over the alcohol limit were you?

Sometimes when your in a situation working off a principle you can lose perspective and forget its people your talking about.

Very true. Principles are important but are always dangerous. People can get hurt. I know. I been burnt at the stake for mine.

 

[Belgorian]

Sometimes when your in a situation working off a principle you can lose perspective and forget its people your talking about. I certainly feel I have done that and I am sorry for doing that Requiel.

The situation has now become very Kafkaesque and its time to realise when your doing more harm than good so I am going to drop it. I have said some things here I should not have said and thank you for pointing that out (all of you who have done this). The points have been made and I ought to have stopped some time ago. I will now.

Time for me to forget about DaoC, Freddys House and to move on and avoid ever getting into an issue this much again

Your point was made and you took your stand and despite what other may think, I actually supported quite a few of your views. All of this was done because clearly you care about the game.

Not met your character many times in game, but I do remember us meeting at Hurbury when you jumped my Armsman inside the keep, despite the guard adds.

We sent a few PM's on freddys to each other, talking about it and what that told me at the time, was that you were someone who plays this game for fun and relaxation.

So, you care about the game, play it for fun and have always enjoyed it. That is exactly what you should be doing now, maybe the shine has gone out of the game for you, but I have to say that your attitude and commitment could do a lot to get the server back up to where it could be.

What this server needs is people! If the people that left the server came back, there would be no population issue. Alarm clock raids have stopped and I can not imagine that anyone would be stupid enough to do another one.

I started playing this game almost five years ago, mainly to share an interest at home with my two sons who already played. I have a high pressure job and family to worry about, this has and always will be entertainment for me and will never be more than that.

Its a great game and beats sitting in front of the television. That should be why we pay to play!

I sincerely hope that I see you back on the server one day.

_________________________
Belgorian LVL50 Armsman
RR9L6-Guildmaster of LOE and
throughly nice chap!!

 

[Cromcruaich]

Your point was made and you took your stand and despite what other may think, I actually supported quite a few of your views. All of this was done because clearly you care about the game.

Not met your character many times in game, but I do remember us meeting at Hurbury when you jumped my Armsman inside the keep, despite the guard adds.

We sent a few PM's on freddys to each other, talking about it and what that told me at the time, was that you were someone who plays this game for fun and relaxation.

So, you care about the game, play it for fun and have always enjoyed it. That is exactly what you should be doing now, maybe the shine has gone out of the game for you, but I have to say that your attitude and commitment could do a lot to get the server back up to where it could be.

What this server needs is people! If the people that left the server came back, there would be no population issue. Alarm clock raids have stopped and I can not imagine that anyone would be stupid enough to do another one.

I started playing this game almost five years ago, mainly to share an interest at home with my two sons who already played. I have a high pressure job and family to worry about, this has and always will be entertainment for me and will never be more than that.

Its a great game and beats sitting in front of the television. That should be why we pay to play!

I sincerely hope that I see you back on the server one day.

_________________________
Belgorian LVL50 Armsman
RR9L6-Guildmaster of LOE and
throughly nice chap!!

Nice post. One problem lies in the death of the fg scene on duvet though, can't ever see that getting reestablished except with a merge.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Nice post. One problem lies in the death of the fg scene on duvet though, can't ever see that getting reestablished except with a merge.

3 fg with some dedication can sort that out... plus stopping calling it "dead" would help.

That or learn how to "zerg" or do non-8v8 RvR in a fun way in between the 8v8 fights.

 

[Succi]

so when are the char transfers gonna be available ?

 

[Rigga Mortice]

That or learn how to "zerg" or do non-8v8 RvR in a fun way in between the 8v8 fights.

But we wouldn't want to tell people how to play, would we Flim?

 

[swords]

2. move some of team A to team B

Which one do you think is more fun for all concerned?

Rolling characters and TOAing on a new realm: 2months casually (we are not hardcore play all day and night peeps)
Claiming and lowering a keep: 5 minutes.

 

[Imgormiel]

Belgorian and Imgormiel,

I can see what your driving at but I will stick by that comment for very real reasons. Its quite simple.

FH now has a playerbase stretched from a UK server (Dyvet) to a German server (Avalon) and even to Mythic servers (US). The UK community if it is smart can benefit from the fact that its player base is no longer isolated and situated in one place. It can benefit by comparing experiences elsewhere and by asking what are without doubt very very uncomfortable questions of the people who provide that service.

Who knows. What happens if you find out that in fact people have a better service elsewhere? Doesn't that help you ask the right questions about your own experience? Rather than complain about people remaining posting here as some have done (not you guys of course), wouldn't you see it as a great chance to put some pressure and to try and have things put right?

When I could get hold of the English team they were always great. However there were also lots of times when they were needed and I could not get them. If you look around you you will see that others do seem to have different experiences. Some will be good some will be bad.

Don't you see the chance you have to get to know more about your product as a consumer? - I already did as I've been for an interview.

Sometimes when you look on VN boards and browse around you find that in fact the problems you experience are quite common problems. Its a problem of game design sometimes. You also notice that the problems you had have been dealt with differently sometimes better and of course sometimes less well. Where it is better you can demand better (as I have done here) where it is less good you can congratulate the people working for you (which you will find I do when I feel it is good).

Knowing you have others here to talk to makes you less inclined to be forced to have to accept things as they are.

edit: I should add that this service is experienced differently on other servers ran by the same company. Ask yourself why that might be?

With regards to everything I highlighted in bold.
I got to ask all the questions I needed to know at GOA HQ. They were answered succinctly and there is quite obviously a dichotomy between what you understand to be Requiel's job - for which I can refer you to the GOA website at the jobs section where there is a community manager's vacancy if you are interested. And that of what happened in this incident and how it was enforced.

The decision is and always will be irreversible, how it was enforced is another matter. But if you bother to look for the record on how you are supposed to fulfill your role as a community manager for any of the games run by GOA/France Telecom then you are binded to do so accordingly.

The level of service will always be tangible to what your problem is and the severity of it. But I reiterate, you are treated no differently or less quickly on that basis either and therefore the service is always the same regardless of server or community manager/GM.

Also you may note that there are some 9000 listed known bugs that Mythic are aware of and have to date not fixed. So for the case of some things not getting done as well, just imagine this......Getting hold of a spiders web, removing parts of it and then trying to repatch it up so it looks the way you think it should. Then you have some idea of how hard things are to do with this game. DAOC is a web of a mess and I doubt that it will ever fully fixed.

 

[Flimgoblin]

But we wouldn't want to tell people how to play, would we Flim?

I'm not telling him how to play, I'm suggesting alternatives.

Difference between "don't add on my fight" and "try 8v8 it's fun"

 

[Rigga Mortice]

But we wouldn't want to tell people how to play, would we Flim?

I'm not telling him how to play, I'm suggesting alternatives.

Difference between "don't add on my fight" and "try 8v8 it's fun"

pah, people notice me trolling, that's not on. It was a joke hence the at the end of it... some people take themselves too seriously

You're no fun anymore

 

[swords]

I'm not telling him how to play, I'm suggesting alternatives.

Difference between "don't add on my fight" and "try 8v8 it's fun"

8v8 contains aspartame K, all the fun with less calories!

 

[Imgormiel]

8v8 contains aspartame K, all the fun with less calories!

implying that flim is fat?