A Discussion

[IainC]

Thank you Requiel for your replies. There can be no doubt that population is the root of the problem. I would like to see your response to the information we have from servers ran my Mythic in the US....

I'm not going to comment on how Mythic run their servers nor whether parallels can be drawn between an incident here and an incident on other servers. I don't know the details of those cases you mention and so I don't feel comfortable in comparing them. Our policies and rules of conduct do not have to be identical to Mythic's in any case. Neither we nor they are bound by a common set of rules.

 

[Sharkith]

I'm not going to comment on how Mythic run their servers nor whether parallels can be drawn between an incident here and an incident on other servers. I don't know the details of those cases you mention and so I don't feel comfortable in comparing them. Our policies and rules of conduct do not have to be identical to Mythic's in any case. Neither we nor they are bound by a common set of rules.

Thank you Requiel that is very clear.

 

[MaCaBr3]

On Mythic servers keeps are regularly dropped to level 1 and no one gets banned.

Never saw a keep at level 1 since the 2 months I've been on US/merlin. Also dropping a keep to level 1 WITH A RELIC INSIDE is something else then just dropping a keep to level 1.

But what do I care, I don't play here anymore ayway.

 

[Everz]

Never saw a keep at level 1 since the 2 months I've been on US/merlin. Also dropping a keep to level 1 WITH A RELIC INSIDE is something else then just dropping a keep to level 1.

But what do I care, I don't play here anymore ayway.

same situation on devon.. hibs ruled, they zerged the realm with 6 relics, guild who owned the keep with relic in dropped it to 1 and let the albs retake, and it was allowed

 

[Muylaetrix]

same situation on devon.. hibs ruled, they zerged the realm with 6 relics, guild who owned the keep with relic in dropped it to 1 and let the albs retake, and it was allowed

was it an action that had popular support from a suficiently large majority of hibs ?

or was it an act of defiance from a single guild/group of players vs their own realm ?

 

[Rigga Mortice]

was it an action that had popular support from a suficiently large majority of hibs ?

or was it an act of defiance from a single guild/group of players vs their own realm ?

Would the answer change your personal view?

 

[Muylaetrix]

Would the answer change your personal view?

my personal view on what ? question too open.

 

[thergador]

my personal view on what ? question too open.

well ofc he means weather to flush spider down the plug hole or pop it in a glass and take it out side when you/your partner finds a big spider in the bath

 

[Everz]

was it an action that had popular support from a suficiently large majority of hibs ?

or was it an act of defiance from a single guild/group of players vs their own realm ?

Same situation as here, the guild who lowered the keep was a single full grp vs the realm.. mythic did nothing and dismissed those who complained about it.. and now look a devon, its a super active cluster.. go goa? :touch:

 

[Sharkith]

was it an action that had popular support from a suficiently large majority of hibs ?

or was it an act of defiance from a single guild/group of players vs their own realm ?

At least Requiel had the honesty to reply directly. His answer speaks for itself and I respect him for that. I don't agree with him but you know shit happens and I can get over it. The point was to make sure a direct response was given and it is quite clear what they think now - mission accomplished.

As for you Muly you really ought to pull your head out of the sand. You always try to pull that bullshit about majority of the realm and all that shite when it suits you.

The facts are simple it happens on servers controlled by Mythic and they don't touch people over it. The world does not revolve around you and your views.

Situations can be unclear and in those instances it makes sense to get clarity which is what we have managed to do here. Now people know they can choose where they would prefer to spend their time.

 

[fettoken]

Credit to the people that stay up late just to help their fellow realm get a relic or two! As there are less people left on the prydwen / excalibur cluster, it gets harder to do relic raids prime time.
My personal opinion is that GoA should have clustered more european servers long time ago, english with german servers etc to make up for the loss of people due to new MMorpg´s popping up.

 

[Sollers]

was it an action that had popular support from a suficiently large majority of hibs ?

or was it an act of defiance from a single guild/group of players vs their own realm ?

Would you argue that it's ok for them to do it in option nr. 1 but not in option nr. 2?

 

[joap]

was it an action that had popular support from a suficiently large majority of hibs ?

or was it an act of defiance from a single guild/group of players vs their own realm ?

Was there a poll in albion about this?

 

[Gahn]

was it an action that had popular support from a suficiently large majority of hibs ?

or was it an act of defiance from a single guild/group of players vs their own realm ?

Not that the AC crew makes a poll before stealing Relics at ungodly hours anyway, just to make the Devil's Advocate.

 

[Rigga Mortice]

was it an action that had popular support from a suficiently large majority of hibs ?

or was it an act of defiance from a single guild/group of players vs their own realm ?

Would the answer change your personal view?

my personal view on what ? question too open.

Either you are being deliberately obtuse, or you don't understand the context and path of this discussion thread that you have still partaken in for the last 300+ posts.

Regardless of how this reflects upon you, I shall try to accommodate these percieved shortcomings:

If it was proved your views on server/realm behaviour, with regards to 'ACed' relics and dropping guild-owned keeps to a certain level as a choice, differed from a majority, would it have any effect on those views? Would you feel obliged to change them?

 

[Muylaetrix]

Either you are being deliberately obtuse, or you don't understand the context and path of this discussion thread that you have still partaken in for the last 300+ posts.

Regardless of how this reflects upon you, I shall try to accommodate these percieved shortcomings:

If it was proved your views on server/realm behaviour, with regards to 'ACed' relics and dropping guild-owned keeps to a certain level as a choice, differed from a majority, would it have any effect on those views? Would you feel obliged to change them?

obtuse, nice, another word i had to look up.

how can in a game about realm vs realm, betrayal of your own realm (taking action against the realm) NOT be against the SoTG ?

had they started communicating their intend before taking action instead of trying to come up with an excuse AFTER the got the bill represented for their action, they might have had popular support on their side.

people saw that something not koosjer had happened at renaris, people asked tt members what was going on, people got laughed at by TT members, people got angry.

the fact that a large enough portion of the albs went into "we'll camp and defend renaris at level one" and we were able to beat of of multiple large attempts to take the keep suggest that a large enough proportion of the albs fundamentally disagreed with the action taken by TT.

TT betrayed those people with their action.

what is the part of that you don't undertand ?


had they called a 'conclave' (preferable ingame, if needs to on FH) to discuss the matter and if as a result of a majority vote it was evident that most albs were cool with giving the relic back, i would have agreed for sure.

they didn't.

they behaved like ***** and arseholes who tought they had a god given right to act on that level without giving any justification about their actions to anyone.

 

[Sharkith]

I want to be clear about this Muly I hope you can understand because this is getting beyond ridiculous.

The particular incident in this case the TT incident is different from the general principle people would like you to respond to. Many of us accept that what TT did was offensive to you and a porportion of Albion. I personally reject your claim that it was the whole realm because you have no evidence for your claim. All of this is however besides the point we are making here.

The indicent forced a particular principle to the fore. That principle was 'the spirit of the game'. Now we have the following points fully established in this thread over and over again ad nauseum and to which you have yet to respond to directly:

a) I asked GOA if dropping a keep to level 1 with a relic in it would at any time consitute a breach of the SoTG.

b) GOA have been clear. There could in there eyes be no such time where this would not be against the SoTG. Not ever.

c) I asked people on VN Boards and on Prydwen.net if this had happened anywhere else.

d) it has happened on Mythic servers with a degree of frequency and no-one has been banned not one person.

e) I put that back to Requiel here in this thread, his response is clear GOA are not bound by Mythic's rules and therefore can decide how they see things.

f) GOA's view remains very clear such an action would remain against the SoTG.

Now and this is my point. By your own response above it almost looks like you actually feel that people could have allowed the keep to be dropped and given back a relic, if people had followed the proper procedure.

GOA would by their own definition would oppose you and if necessary we are left to assume would act to support the griefers by banning you should you try to remedy the situation.

Now Muly.

What do you think of that?

I think it sucks.

 

[rawr]

This SOTG argument is getting beyond ridiculous now, it is obvious that it is all about perspective of each player, which is why this argument is being attached to every other discussion.

How can you remain under the pretence that the SOTG is within set (read: well defined) limits? This idea has been discussed before already, yet the point seems to be ignored.

how can in a game about realm vs realm, betrayal of your own realm (taking action against the realm) NOT be against the SoTG ?

Can you not see the irony in this argument? Why is it out of the 'SOTG rules' to have problems within your own realm.

Who decides what is and isn't against the SOTG? GOA clearly have the final say; but what about the average user that is playing as they wish, because they have a different perspective to you is it automatically against the 'SOTG'? Everyone has their own opinions and perspectives, and the SOTG is an asinine argument. I was playing Alb as my main realm at the time of the TT incident and I agree with what they did, as do many others, so it is hardly the entirety of Alb that disagreed, like you say. I saw the current population problems before they were accepted by others after the TT incident, and I believe them in why they did what they did.

They tried to rectify a problem with the attitude of this cluster, ironically it has only intensified. The population issues as a result of this have increased, to an extent that GOA could no longer remain prevaricative and have accepted the problem. The attitude remains though; with the divided opinions and attitudes on this cluster, and people hiding behind the 'SOTG' so they can get their own way.

had they called a 'conclave' (preferable ingame, if needs to on FH) to discuss the matter and if as a result of a majority vote it was evident that most albs were cool with giving the relic back, i would have agreed for sure.

they didn't.

Sorry, I find this idea hard to believe.
Hypothetically, had they given control up to your guild and then asked for attention to the matter, I in no way believe it would have been acknowledged. What I believe would have happened instead, is that your guild and everyone that shares your POV would have lived happily ever after knowing their relic was safe at level 10, and pushed the issues and concerns of TT and many others under the rug; out of sight, out of mind.

Am I wrong? If I am so wrong, why did so many choose to report them (and force GOA to take action) instead of talk to them about the problems, even though I think you all knew anyway. It is because you could not get your own way, and you had to take notice of what they had to say. The discussion before they lowered the level of the keep would have been optimistic, but it is far from reality imo.

 

[Legean]

God this was ages ago In my view if they didn't like having the relic in their keep they could have released it therefore not supporting the AC raid but in the same breath not hindering the realm in RvR and so not being against the CoC/SotG. I realise this has probably been said but i dont really intend to read 22 pages.

As for the Mythic havn't banned anyone comment then yeah Mythic and GoA are different for example in the US you dont get banned for emote spamming ect, also i dont think AC raids are possible in the same sense there.

The only way you will be banned as i read it is if you activly hinder the realm.

 

[Sollac]

the problem here is everybody looks at past experiences and kinda predicts that they will happen again...human nature.

thing is nobody ever learns. what TT did was wrong in method but right in principle.

the AC rainding has stopped, mids have no relics and have now disappeared...
predictable.

Suddenly more hibs are about...so logic assumes the mids have gone to Hib, we know that is certain for Brad.

Thing is all this realm swopping is one of the reasons that the realms are in dire straights. why you ask....the is no real defination of how many true active players are on a realm.

Therefore Alb may have the larges constant population, where as Mid and Hib have same population levels but intermittantly....

well thats my opinion...

Look forward to the game, think of the realm you play before yourself....

same in real life ...no I in team or even Realm for that matter.:england:

 

[Arethir]

had they called a 'conclave' (preferable ingame, if needs to on FH) to discuss the matter and if as a result of a majority vote it was evident that most albs were cool with giving the relic back, i would have agreed for sure.

they didn't.

Oh, you must have missed the 999999999999 threads by people whining about the relic situation and trying to keep the AC'ers from doing AC raids then!

 

[pip]

And why should people think about a realm that doesn't give a rats's ass about others opinions?

"Oh, so you dislike adding? WELL FUCK YOU!"

"Oh, so you dislike AC raids? well, it's a 24h game so live with it!"

Basically, the realm doesn't deserve a second thought.

The bit about ac'ing is quite funny coming from a alb? would be diffrent if mids hibs did it 24/7?

 

[Kinag]

the problem here is everybody looks at past experiences and kinda predicts that they will happen again...human nature.

thing is nobody ever learns. what TT did was wrong in method but right in principle.

the AC rainding has stopped, mids have no relics and have now disappeared...
predictable.

Suddenly more hibs are about...so logic assumes the mids have gone to Hib, we know that is certain for Brad.

Thing is all this realm swopping is one of the reasons that the realms are in dire straights. why you ask....the is no real defination of how many true active players are on a realm.

Therefore Alb may have the larges constant population, where as Mid and Hib have same population levels but intermittantly....

well thats my opinion...

Look forward to the game, think of the realm you play before yourself....

same in real life ...no I in team or even Realm for that matter.:england:

And why should people think about a realm that doesn't give a rats's ass about others opinions?

"Oh, so you dislike adding? WELL FUCK YOU!"

"Oh, so you dislike AC raids? well, it's a 24h game so live with it!"

Basically, the realm doesn't deserve a second thought.

 

[Shike]

also i dont think AC raids are possible in the same sense there.

and there is the key to it all

 

[trycorn]

The bit about ac'ing is quite funny coming from a alb? would be diffrent if mids hibs did it 24/7?

so he dislike AC raids and he's and alb, wow stereotype breakdown !!!!!!

 

[pip]

Not that botherd about albs having relics it brings out all the NOOBS to farm

 

[joap]

the fact that a large enough portion of the albs went into "we'll camp and defend renaris at level one" and we were able to beat of of multiple large attempts to take the keep suggest that a large enough proportion of the albs fundamentally disagreed with the action taken by TT.

Or it could be that they smelled RPs from the retake attempt and went in to get their cut while not giving a rats ass about the high level politics?

 

[kivik]

Or it could be that they smelled RPs from the retake attempt and went in to get their cut while not giving a rats ass about the high level politics?

qft

Not suprised muyl believes otherwise.

 

[kirennia]

how can in a game about realm vs realm, betrayal of your own realm (taking action against the realm) NOT be against the SoTG ?

The SoTG is a roleplaying loose set of rules so I'll reply as such. We were acting against atrocities our realms commited. If Tony Blair turned around tomorrow and said british troops are to be using biological weaponry, there would be a worldwide revolt. AC raids in game are in our eyes(and most peoples looking at the polls), against the spirit of the game.

GoA never once said they would ban for this. In fact, early after it was done people got replies saying they were fine with it then changed their minds. Instead of posting on the main page that it wasn't allowed and given us an oppurtuinty to rectify the situation, they just outright banned two players.

had they called a 'conclave' (preferable ingame, if needs to on FH) to discuss the matter and if as a result of a majority vote it was evident that most albs were cool with giving the relic back, i would have agreed for sure.

Have tried asking people to stop before and all we get is 'lol, in the coc noob, 24/7 game!'... AC raids because they're so easy to do mean the realm is in a state of dictatorship by those few who relentlessly take these actions. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it 100% because GoA took this action. Other guild leaders I talked to following the incident said they would have done the same and had GoA of not interfered, these AC raids would have been nullified and a state of decent raiding could have been the outcome WITHOUT the significant playerbase decrease.

they behaved like ***** and arseholes who tought they had a god given right to act on that level without giving any justification about their actions to anyone.

No. That is what AC raiders do.

And you're completely right, we gave no justification to anyone. In fact, this is the first post anyone from TT has made here! OMG!!!

 

[Flimgoblin]

The SoTG is a roleplaying loose set of rules so I'll reply as such. We were acting against atrocities our realms commited. If Tony Blair turned around tomorrow and said british troops are to be using biological weaponry, there would be a worldwide revolt. AC raids in game are in our eyes(and most peoples looking at the polls), against the spirit of the game. !

Ahh, RL analogies are great Here's one of my own for you to pick apart:

I'd say it's more along the lines of a vigilante reaction: That dude in the shop over there is selling his bananas cheaper than me, and it's making me less profit, so I'm going to go down to the airport and blow up all incoming banana crates.

Looking at FH polls doesn't really give you a good indication of what people think in game unfortunately as it's a small percentage of players here (and very biased towards a segment of the community).

Plus just because some people are against AC raids doesn't mean they agree with the action that was taken.

To reuse your analogy, if you're against using biological weaponry it doesn't mean you're for assassinating someone to stop it happening...

AC raids are part of the game, people have lived with them for years, they're lame and unfun but noone ever got quite so worked up about them that they'd actively sabotage their own realm's defence.

We had people refusing to defend the relics (back when they were in relic keeps in OF) which is fine, we've had people rerolling realms to help out the underdog - which is also fine.

(though maybe it's not happened before because you couldn't really do much to sabotage things back then)

Refusing to help your realm mates is a different thing from actively setting out to hinder them.