Adding: why is it such an issue?

I'm bored and apparently you people can't be trusted to start interesting/contoversial topics while im browsing at college so i thought id make one myself.

The point up for debate is this: Why is adding such a big deal in DAOC?

I dont mean "Why is it such a big deal, everyone should just get on with it". i personally hate adding in DAOC, and avoid it in all but the most extreme circumstances, and i get severely wound up whenever i get added on in a fair fight. What i mean is: why do i get wound up?

Playing games like CS, TFC, NS and other halflife mods, as well as other MMOs like Legend of Mir/Planetside, it is still possible to get added on, in the sense that you can be shooting/hitting someone, and another person can come up and start pileing into you as well. The only difference is; when it happens to me in the above games, i never seem to care.

i havnt played WoW, but from talking to friends who play it i get the impression adding isnt a big problem there either. so why is it such a huge thing on DAOC?



P.S. if youre the type thats just going to come here and post "i hate adding" or "XXXX is an adder" then shoo, this isnt the thread for you

Personally I add on anything I want, I couldn't care less if someone else added on any of my fights. I guess it's up to each and everone how they want to treat others or be treated. This game is set to be realm vs. realm and as long as it's set to that there aren't much we can do to stop it, or for those who don't wanna get added on.

It's the way of DAoC, just cope with it ladies and gentlemen.

I think not being able to talk to your enemy unless via IRC or such add to the factor of wanting to win

ive not played all the games you mentioned, but in DAoC most people have access to XXX gear and such so its on a much more even playing ground, not just whoever has more money for HP potions because they are timered in DAoC, same with RAs and this matters for both FG vs FG and solo. Even if you dont have 100% the best gear, even with a semi decent template you can compete atleast. So when it counts on your how you play and theres no excuses like luck lamer or somone higher level or richer than you its all about how you played, what tactics where used, how you countered your enemy tactics and even how fast you react. Thats why it matters because DAoC was built in a way that you cant really luck kill someone, only zerg if you are generally a poor player

Phule_Gubben said:

Personally I add on anything I want

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Eyres said:

Thats why it matters because DAoC was built in a way that you cant really luck kill someone, only zerg if you are generally a poor player

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See above, and also read the bottom of his post, but i guess its too late for that and your going to whine about how it doesnt say you cant add so why shouldnt you..... is no law against being a chav but it doesnt mean those that are chavs arnt arseholes

Phule_Gubben said:

Personally I add on anything I want, I couldn't care less if someone else added on any of my fights. I guess it's up to each and everone how they want to treat others or be treated. This game is set to be realm vs. realm and as long as it's set to that there aren't much we can do to stop it, or for those who don't wanna get added on.

It's the way of DAoC, just cope with it ladies and gentlemen.

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sorry Phule, your post was exactly the type i didnt want in this thread nothing to do with the subject at all, youre not addressing why other games are different, just going into the usual routine of why its cool that you add, so come up with a point or butt out

Eyres said:

I think not being able to talk to your enemy unless via IRC or such add to the factor of wanting to win

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I'd agree with you, but whenever i play daoc, im usually logged onto irc, so im not lacking in communication with the people who add on me

I think it's boring when ppl add in all games, even RTS games. But it's part of the game and I don't care that much, I don't get wounded up but a little annoyed sometimes. But I add aswell so it's not like I hate adders, it's just boring when you're looking forward to have good fight.

Basically I only get annoyed on adders from other realms. I mean if a hib add on me when I'm fighting an alb or hibs I don't care much, it's just typical. But when I die cuz' 2-3 hibs/albs are adding on me solo it's a little more annoying :>

For me it's not related to DAoC..

Eyres said:

is no law against being a chav but it doesnt mean those that are chavs arnt arseholes

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True.

Phule_Gubben said:

It's the way of DAoC

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Actually it is your way of DAoC.
My way of DAoC is very diffrent.


P.S,

I blame NF for the increased adding from FGs and other soloers. Making a frontier like that just makes me mad, it is a disgrace tbh.

Basically the rvr situtation atm ( with help of decreasing player base #s ) is bridge camping, wich means zergs... Then we have the frustrated 8 man crews who instead of arranging fights on IRC go camping docks to kill the soloers that adds on the 8 mans on the bridges...
Imo you could fix this by changing the design of the frontiers.

Phule_Gubben said:

Personally I add on anything I want, I couldn't care less if someone else added on any of my fights. I guess it's up to each and everone how they want to treat others or be treated. This game is set to be realm vs. realm and as long as it's set to that there aren't much we can do to stop it, or for those who don't wanna get added on.

It's the way of DAoC, just cope with it ladies and gentlemen.

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agree with this.

I'll add on what i want to. Lets put it this way what would daoc be without adds? a game where people queed up to fight eachother? We'd have the rr9+ people surrouned by a pile a bodies and a massive line of people infront of them waiting for their turn to fight.

Its also bloody boring facing 1 enemy all the time, makes me laugh at how people whine abouts adds when more than 1 jump them? isnt that more of a challenge? adds (pun not intended) a bit of spice to the fight, instead we have people yelling at realmates or snarky childish comments which just arn't needed. Its realm vs realm, not 1v1, not 2v2 and not 8v8. Its not like people get added on all the time anyway.

Part of the fun in daoc is seeking revenge on the people who have jumped in on what you would consider a fair fight by killing them at the first oppertunity you get (what is a fair fight with the class inbalances?) Is it fair not to help out a rr3 healing class vs a rr10 stealth/fighting class as that would be considered adding?

Another quite amusing point is that stealthers whine on visuals for adding on their fights (lol), so let me get this straight its right in their eyes we can only attack stealthers when we are attacked usually on their terms (PA or BS) when the stealther will most likely have the upperhand? I sure as hell blow a stealther up on the spot if hes silly enough to pop someone next to me.

I know for me atleast those who do kill me in rvr i try to take them first whenever i can, i have people in daoc who i target first always and I'm sure its the same on oposing realms.

As for whining in a game played by others for fun some people need to lighten up.

rant over.

ontopic: the rewards you get from killng your opponent. rps/cash aswell as the annoyance of wasting 15 minute timers if you get an add and die would probably contribute to why a majority of the whiners get annoyed byu adding.

Wouldnt know about any of the games you've mentioned as I've only really played daoc online. apart from C&C etc but thats different.

I think it might just be that the ones who complain about adding are either a) more vocal, or b) on the losing side.

I find it more frustrating when someone from your own realm stands next to you and watches you die, as they say they didn't want to add. What they might not have seen is you kill an enemy then got jumped by another while you were at 40%, but their 'not wanting to add' has only assisted the enemy realm.

I guess what annoys me about people 'not' adding / assisting, is I know that the attacker / enemy got away with xxx RP's which could have been avoided, making the other realm stronger. I don't mind not getting RP's, I don't mind dying, I just hate being bonus RP's to the enemy.

I aint a hardcore RvR but on all my toons Ive soloed 90% of all my total RPs - sure I get annoyed when I get steamrolled by other groups, stealthers and whatnot but I realize thats its likely to happen fairly often considering how the game works and especially with the declining population over the years - if I really only want solo fights I got somewhere other than the bridges.

What really annoys me tho is when I attack and its a fight I clearly will loose yet people from my own realm stands and watch while I die and sometime dont even attack once the fight is over - that there is really wrong with the game - people feeling you have to ask permission to attack in RvR.

I love solo fights when they happen and when I meet someone better/better equipped than me I have no problems dieing but I dont expect them to happen because they sometimes do anyway. The ones that so badly want solo fights is the ones that should make a bigger effort into getting them...I saw a VW last night running around DC west bridge and expecting that people wouldnt add...thats like never gonna happen in the current state of the game.

If someone runs up to a fight and one of them yells "Dont help" then I, and probably lots of others, would let them be at least until the fight is done especially if its not in the most crowded areas. Its better if you tell people not to ever help instead and hope that people remember that request instead of yelling at others for wanting to play the game as intended...in RvR.

i think the reason the fg ppl cry is bcoz the adders in of used to be rr2 epic paladins while nowdays addcrew is mostly rr8+ casters who moc instantly when they add personal attack removed - Flim. Adds used to mean more easy rps who didnt rly destroy the fight, they kinda spiced it up.

Is it not somewhat ironic that you should get so annoyed by 'adding' in a game that is designed for realm vs realm - and advertised as large scale pvp battles - and not be annoyed by it in other games?

It begs the question of whether the 'adding' issue has more to do with the way kills in DaoC are rewarded, ofc those who dislike adding will say (again) it is not about rps and yet you'll still find them running about where the most rps are and not arranging their fights away from these areas.

I don't play other pvp type games on-line so I couldn't make a direct personal comparison - reading other posts there does seem to be some loose relationship between those who think the game is about realm vs realm and those who don't play other competitively focussed on-line games.

Marcus75 said:

If someone runs up to a fight and one of them yells "Dont help" then I, and probably lots of others, would let them be at least until the fight is done especially if its not in the most crowded areas. Its better if you tell people not to ever help instead and hope that people remember that request instead of yelling at others for wanting to play the game as intendedR.

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aye but the thing is, people dont do this, instead they feel the need to hurl abuse at the guy who ran into to 'help the realm'. However even if they dont listen to the yell it should be left at that. But of course with things like irc, your gunna get some leetkid spamming pms at ya, so and so said your a moudly piece of adding turd etc, reminds of primary school sometimes.

Matriarch|Sneakers said:

True.
I blame NF for the increased adding from FGs and other soloers. Making a frontier like that just makes me mad, it is a disgrace tbh.

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Did u even play OF? it was a 100% zerg fest every1 and there dog added, all the elajt FGs added all soloers added. Today i find i get added on alot less then i used to ofc there are still alot of addedrs but not as many as b4

Arumos said:

I'll add on what i want to. Lets put it this way what would daoc be without adds? a game where people queed up to fight eachother? We'd have the rr9+ people surrouned by a pile a bodies and a massive line of people infront of them waiting for their turn to fight.

Its also bloody boring facing 1 enemy all the time, makes me laugh at how people whine abouts adds when more than 1 jump them? isnt that more of a challenge? adds (pun not intended) a bit of spice to the fight, instead we have people yelling at realmates or snarky childish comments which just arn't needed. Its realm vs realm, not 1v1, not 2v2 and not 8v8. Its not like people get added on all the time anyway.

Part of the fun in daoc is seeking revenge on the people who have jumped in on what you would consider a fair fight by killing them at the first oppertunity you get (what is a fair fight with the class inbalances?) Is it fair not to help out a rr3 healing class vs a rr10 stealth/fighting class as that would be considered adding?

Another quite amusing point is that stealthers whine on visuals for adding on their fights (lol), so let me get this straight its right in their eyes we can only attack stealthers when we are attacked usually on their terms (PA or BS) when the stealther will most likely have the upperhand? I sure as hell blow a stealther up on the spot if hes silly enough to pop someone next to me.

I know for me atleast those who do kill me in rvr i try to take them first whenever i can, i have people in daoc who i target first always and I'm sure its the same on oposing realms.

As for whining in a game played by others for fun some people need to lighten up.

rant over.

ontopic: the rewards you get from killng your opponent. rps/cash aswell as the annoyance of wasting 15 minute timers if you get an add and die would probably contribute to why a majority of the whiners get annoyed byu adding.

Wouldnt know about any of the games you've mentioned as I've only really played daoc online. apart from C&C etc but thats different.

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Couldn't have said this any better myself... Exactly my point of view, and most of you probably know I do add on anything I want to. When Synergy runs guildgroups, we dont add on other fg fights or on good 1vs1 fights that started a long time before we arrived But in general, ppl shouldn't whine about getting added on.

The entire problem behind adding is, that people are distinguishing between "our realm defeats our realm" and "my group defeauts your group". There simply are more than one points of view about what´s making DAoC fun and worth playing, whereas in games like CS, there´s just one objective. If you don´t care about your team in CS and just try to get the best score, you´re automatically a bad teamplayer and make your team suffer. In DAoC, ther´s no such thing as one goal. Goals can range from just kill your enemy, to take a keep, to take a relic. If you lose a fight, there normally are no consequences for your "team" i.e. realm. So the importance of individual fights are pretty low (unless it´s a specific situation like relic raid or something). As a result, everybody is supposed to find a definition of his own motivations, as in: why do I actually play RvR. If the game doesn´t give one, you have to find one yourself. Play better than your opponent - Gain RPs/RRs - Just kill stuff with red names over their heads - [insert your motivation here]. And as soon as we got this situation, a clash of goals and motivations is unavoidable.

However, there´s one thing that all sides seem to share: the inability to even remotely understand the reasons and pov´s of the other side.

seriously guys, im not sure what thread you meant to reply to, but can you double check? cos im pretty sure its not mine.

Nobody gives a toss that you "pay your subscription" or that you think its fine to add because the box says "RvR". shut up and get the hell out of this thread, thats not what im talking about here.

so far only Eyres, Zebolt and Javai are on-topic re-read their posts, then read my posts, then read both again. then take a deep breath, pause for a few seconds to let your one remaining braincell process the task in hand, THEN post.

Thorwyn[B&Q] said:

The entire problem behind adding is, that people are distinguishing between "our realm defeats our realm" and "my group defeauts your group". There simply are more than one points of view about what´s making DAoC fun and worth playing, whereas in games like CS, there´s just one objective. If you don´t care about your team in CS and just try to get the best score, you´re automatically a bad teamplayer and make your team suffer. In DAoC, ther´s no such thing as one goal. Goals can range from just kill your enemy, to take a keep, to take a relic. If you lose a fight, there normally are no consequences for your "team" i.e. realm. So the importance of individual fights are pretty low (unless it´s a specific situation like relic raid or something). As a result, everybody is supposed to find a definition of his own motivations, as in: why do I actually play RvR. If the game doesn´t give one, you have to find one yourself. Play better than your opponent - Gain RPs/RRs - Just kill stuff with red names over their heads - [insert your motivation here]. And as soon as we got this situation, a clash of goals and motivations is unavoidable.

However, there´s one thing that all sides seem to share: the inability to even remotely understand the reasons and pov´s of the other side.

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True, and still I try to respect other ppls gameplay and dont get into this "I dont care and just play as I want"-mode, which too many ppl tend to have.
Alot of you will realise what im talking about once u had a conversation about something YOU ARE AFTER (basically anything) and the other persons ends your conv with "I don't care." Based on how important it is for you what your after, you will be pissed, hence ppl are pissed if they get added and get something like that as answer.

But then, im too nice and shouldnt expect that from anyone else.

To come back to topic, I think most of the games u mentioned (havent played them all) are faster e.g. if you die in CS, it takes you less time to be available again, or in case you fight 5vs5, your still "in" the game if your team is alive. In daoc it takes you more to get back as a stealther etc. etc.

Now have fun in RvR; im on a daoc break.

Thorwyn[B&Q] said:

whereas in games like CS, there´s just one objective. If you don´t care about your team in CS and just try to get the best score, you´re automatically a bad teamplayer and make your team suffer.

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not true, you can play CS on public servers where its usually just a case of sharpening up your personal skills, racking up a decent score and trying new stuff, but then in Clan Wars youve got the enhanced teamgame aspect of it, where sacrificing yourself to win the round is a valid tactic, unlike in FFA public servers. regardless, in both of these settings, "adding" doesnt bother me

I myself play Shiella Shadowblade, and i always prefer solo. But when i get steamrolled by high rr stealth duos i usually join up with other people.
Especially that rr11 infil thats always duoing (Lxn or something) god damn man.. learn to play ur char ffs.. the other night when i bowed at u and did /no at ur duo mate, i actually ment i wanted a 1 on 1 fight... but whatver, the fight made me laugh even though u and ur mate killed me... noticed u can only use 1 style (garrote) you evaded me twice and still u garrote ftw .. this guy makes me uke:

Jjuraa said:

seriously guys, im not sure what thread you meant to reply to, but can you double check? cos im pretty sure its not mine.

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Im fairly sure its not rocket science...anyone and everyone think a fight won vs a solo fighter or even 2-3 others is a greater, more skillfull achievment than winning if you have 2-3 realmmates helping out. The same goes for FG's I'll wager.

Kharok Svark said:

I guess what annoys me about people 'not' adding / assisting, is I know that the attacker / enemy got away with xxx RP's which could have been avoided, making the other realm stronger. I don't mind not getting RP's, I don't mind dying, I just hate being bonus RP's to the enemy.

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What I was trying to point out, is that in the other games, the enemy does not benefit long term from you dying, in DAoC with RP's they do!

It's the RP's that change people views in DAoC vs other games, whether it be the, 'you let me die and gave the enemy free RP's', the 'you added on the fight I was winning and stopped me getting the maximum possible RP's' or 'the there is no reason I should not add, as all have equal rights to the RP's' views.

Kharok Svark said:

What I was trying to point out, is that in the other games, the enemy does not benefit long term from you dying, in DAoC with RP's they do!

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again, not true. Planetside is an EXP based game as you get BR points for killing people etc.

In fact, in planetside, ONLY the person who gets the deathblow gets any points (assuming youre not in a vehicle/platoon where the exp is split). Even when im sniping, and i get a perfect shot on someone (one sniper bullet takes a full health person to about 15%) then someone comes along and gets a lucky shot and finishes him off and gets the points, even that doesnt annoy me (i think "damn" but i dont think "wtf that cock stealing my points").

If that system was in daoc, that would drive me absolutely mental, some rog scout shooting the guy youve just got to 10%, and stealing all the points

I'm not sure but i think it may have started with all the downtime you get in daoc when u die compared to other games.
Been playing wow lately, and frankly don't care how/when you die while pvp'ing since ure back in the action 30 secs later.
Well, that's my view on how it started atleast, then somehow it got more and more extreme.

And yes, i am for not adding.

Edit: saw someone already mentioning this, slow norrlänning so don't be hard on me

Jjuraa said:

seriously guys, im not sure what thread you meant to reply to, but can you double check? cos im pretty sure its not mine.

Nobody gives a toss that you "pay your subscription" or that you think its fine to add because the box says "RvR". shut up and get the hell out of this thread, thats not what im talking about here.

so far only Eyres, Zebolt and Javai are on-topic re-read their posts, then read my posts, then read both again. then take a deep breath, pause for a few seconds to let your one remaining braincell process the task in hand, THEN post.

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So by quoting others and saying they are wrong and some other stuff it's ok to post in "your" thread.

and FYI I have never played CS or any other game that provides pvp in the same manner as DAoC. So therefore the lack of similar gaming experience.

I'll butt out now.

Jjuraa said:

again, not true. Planetside is an EXP based game as you get BR points for killing people etc.

In fact, in planetside, ONLY the person who gets the deathblow gets any points (assuming youre not in a vehicle/platoon where the exp is split). Even when im sniping, and i get a perfect shot on someone (one sniper bullet takes a full health person to about 15%) then someone comes along and gets a lucky shot and finishes him off and gets the points, even that doesnt annoy me (i think "damn" but i dont think "wtf that cock stealing my points").

If that system was in daoc, that would drive me absolutely mental, some rog scout shooting the guy youve just got to 10%, and stealing all the points

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kinda like killing a necro. you do all the hard work killing that necro pet (assuming your a melee class and that necro put up a good fight) and some randomRR2 1 shots the caster and gets all the rps (fixed now yadayada)

Didn't read half of the posts , jsust browsing.

But imo the reason noone cares if you die or not in another game such as Half-Life and its mods is because you are instantly back into the action with no penalties.

Tis very different in DAoC when you die due to "adding" you have to port back to a portal keep rebuff (if you have a bot) , use stat enhancement items if you dont <~2mins>, wait for rezz sickness <~2mins> then get a boat <~5ish mins> (if dock is camped can cause multiple tries to get one.

So because you have been killed due to more ppl and are punished for ~9+ mins ppl seem to get pissed off faster

And jsut to clear things up:
Yes , I do add.

Downtime and 4yrs of forum whine seem to have politised the whole issue into a grudgefest and given it a life of it's own.

No idea if these other games have the same lvl of forum aggro.

Don't think the intention of this thread was to have the same old justification of adding rant all over again.

Even think I saw the old "DAoC is Realm vs Realm meights!" argument again, or perhaps it is just burned into my eyes.

It's the downtime and effort involved in each run, be it for re-buffing, travelling, item charges or timers on arti's/RAs, using all your abilities just right in an evenly matched fight, where you are going to pull through and win, just to have some random adder send you back to your portal keep with 15 mins to wait until everything is back up as it was bfore the incident. (note: i dont actually wait for all my timers, but i obviously enjoy having them up), what compounds the frustration is when this happens 4 times in a row or more..that's an hour of RL time down the drain because of nothing more than someone walking past your fight (which incidently on stealth speed can take SOMETIME to find in the first place, while random mage can whizz around on mach4 or whatever looking for poor soloers to add on) at the wrong time.

as far as im aware, no other game punishes you so much for dying.