Adding: why is it such an issue?

[Turran]

Basically.... I see an enemy..... I kill the enemy. I dont care about adders

 

[Sharkith]

Basically.... I see an enemy..... I kill the enemy. I dont care about adders

I love the irony in this post especially in this thread.

 

[Flimgoblin]

i dont, just the exceptionally talented ones.

actually your post referred to everyone who played about 7 different classes as "retard".

How about we add anyone who vanishes, uses IP, doesn't play a RR10 melee spec ranger with a name beginining with "Cen" to that list. I'm sure it won't take long.

Anyway cleaning up the flaming/crap from this thread.

 

[pip]

Yes, do you ever play you hunter away from the zerg pip? Sure I've seen you 'solo' it but no differently to the solo scouts standing on top of towers in keepzergs.

Only ever help out some low rr stealther, guild mates to get ml xp hunter solo 99% and doing fine, 50 spear I would be peeing in the wind to stand camping a tower

 

[rvn]

random adding is basically a form of griefing.

"Everyone" has added on summin in their daoc shielf life, to a certain extent yes its part of the game, and your supposed to do it. Its just certain players, hansi arumos bonyboy pip jabba dysen gryms blablablabla do it so often that they literally make people log off daoc and go play summin else in stead.

Peeps that do this consistently will NEVER conceed that its lame or against the spirit of the game.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though, Mas for example who used to be a right lamer on his warlock, rolls a warrior and runs around solo on it and becomes a completly different player, never adds and nicer to talk to. When u play a melee class you learn this concept of a good fight, and there are some great fights to be had in this game that test your toon and test your skill. Once you have played the game and experienced this concept of a good fight, the idea of running around on some worthless toon (BD, WL, SM, Chanter, Sorc, Necro, cabby, theurg blabla any mage tbh) is not in anyway appealing to me. no one wants to fight you, so basically you will either be killing other same classes, getting killed by other similar classes or adding, the rest aint interested in what you do.

theres also other players like panosbob, ioulia etc, that used to grill my nutz off all the time when i was fighting someone. And you ask them once nicely on IRC if perhaps they can let me finish my fight before drilling me, and they do. and in turn I never attack them. (which i tend not too anyway ).

my 2 cents anyway. The point about it would be boring if no one added is also true.

Edit: you don't have to call everyone who doesn't play the same way as you a "retard" - Flim

Then there are some people that add and zerg for 3years, then when they reach high realm rank ~9 - 11, they decide that adding is lame, and cry about it everytime they get added on, and justify adding on others because they are "adders".

this game needs so much more playing, and alot less political whine/bs.


If you REALLY get EXTREMELY winded up and annoyed about the "adders" (ie 1-3ppl groups running around with speed looking for opportunitys to make rps), then maybe you should find something else.

Daoc has allways been alot of adding, and such, just that most of you people havnt realised "adds" untill lately (the last years)...


Same goes for zerging.

 

[rvn]

Diff between planetside/bf2 etc and DAOC is that in the two first mentioned games you can by skill/experiance kill like 10 "newbies" that cluster up and onyl way of achiving victory is outnummbering you. One well placed TOW shot, or a well placed sniper, or a tank, or a c4 proxy... in daoc its /release /q. That is the diffrence

some years ago you could kill huge amounts of "casual" players in daoc, now its a little harder, as most of them are higher rr, and have caught up a bit in the "skill level" or what you call it.

 

[rvn]

Enemies adding removes the chance of a good and enjoyable fight, prevents you knowing who would have won, wastes any timers you may have used and reduces your RP.
.

no you can still win fights even with adds in plenty senarios.

 

[rvn]

oh and MOST of all, its usually the fg's own fault 80% of the time, take a zone like hadrians for example, if mids have berkstead, and alb beno insta port.

Now if you roam north of the river, where most of the people are, you can EXPECT to get adds, because loads of people there prefer "large" scale rvr, because its mostly hunters/scouts/rangers/casters etc, or assasins trying to kill these.

But yet alot of groups decide to roam there so they can farm these guys, and when they bump into a fg, and the small groups they have been farming all night adds on them, or some zerg finds them, they INSTANTLY start bitching..

you can avoid it yourself, but i know alot of people just LOVE REASONS to WHINE.

(i love whineing too to some extent about other things but i try not to do it too public on forums or irc chans )

 

[Sharkith]

Just to follow up. It is really shocking how often adding as an issue leads to flaming from those who are for and against it. I often wonder why any of you actually play the game if it gets to you that much. I mean are you on speed or something when your playing?

Ok let me explain. I almost quit the game before I got a chance to get into a group with some really decent people (Maxis, Ambs, Drachs, Paul, Alex, Cay, Gwenn, Belis we also have some great stand in peeps - Crom, Mael and quite a few other hibbies who will run with us you know who you are ). The group has a no add policy and an ethic now of not killing soloers (except now and then Drachs is very trigger happy).

We insist on not adding when we can see a FG V's a FG and we do not kill soloers. We like to drink lots playing on Fridays and often by 2am its hard to cast the right spell or even know what your doing , but we still chat and joke and try weird setups. These guys are honestly the coolest bunch of people I have played with since I started the game. They remain calm even when we are getting a right pasting by whatever in game.

In iRvR we get shafted some times constantly by zergs. We still do not add and we do not kill soloers, not even when the same soloer adds on a fight shortly after us leaving them alone. Although of course if it happens over and over we will eventually chain kill anything that moves, so let me be clear whilst we are tolerant we are not stupid .

On a zergy night we might get one or two nice fights where it feels that we are playing as a team and where the calls being made are working. A good FG fight is where the group uses a balance of abilities to their best and even if they lose they know they gave a good fight. A good fight can also be when you lose and learn something. A good fight can also be when you win.

Adding is not always a problem, it just gets tiresome when all there is is adding. For us its when the game is reduced to this on a constant basis that gets difficult. We cannot experience the game how we would like and we are not developing as a team. I don't blame anyone for this - whats the point? After all we still have a great group and the group > than any one night in RvR.

I honestly feel that the FG community (note I don't there is a single DAOC community) are responsible for their own field of play. They are the ones who need to honestly get a grip and move to Agramon, forget iRvR and get back to the principles that make that style of play so much fun.

I can't speak for the group tbh but on Sunday night we lost every single fight to some very very tough high RR Mid groups (you know your just playing easy mode ). We had a weird setup but we learned a few new things and we were impressed by the opposition. It was kind of like being out on maneouvres pissing around dying a lot.

So even when the shit hits the fan and we are having a shitty night we still will not add and we still do not kill soloers (mostly). You can do what you like we will continue to do what we like - getting drunk, chatting and trying to enjoy the game in this way. Adding does nothing to destroy that friendship. So if your always solo and adding is always a problem maybe it is time to look for other things like getting yourself in with a group of like minded people?

I do find the FG people and style of play is more add free and people do respect each other when they are in non-zergy areas - especially in Agramon. Why more don't join us in that form of game beats me because I genuinely do feel they are a decent bunch even when they can often chain kill us on an average Sunday night.

As for the groups that do break the code of conduct of non adding - its up to them. You can have many million more RPS and run around humping the rp like a little dog all you like, frankly I honestly don't care.

Sharky

 

[Javai]

Why more don't join us in that form of game beats me
Sharky

Because not everyone LIKES that style of play? Because many of us play DaoC for large scale rvr which is waht we enjoy.

Personally, I love the zergy fights where you get many 2fgs Mids vs 2fg Albs and you think it's almost over and then a group of HIbs crashes in the from side etc etc. If I wanted nicely controlled fg fights there are better (more balanced) environments to do it in like Guild Wars where advantages come from team work and skill/spell selection not having farmed a rare item or got to rrX so you have more abilities than the others.

 

[Sharkith]

Because not everyone LIKES that style of play? Because many of us play DaoC for large scale rvr which is waht we enjoy.

Personally, I love the zergy fights where you get many 2fgs Mids vs 2fg Albs and you think it's almost over and then a group of HIbs crashes in the from side etc etc. If I wanted nicely controlled fg fights there are better (more balanced) environments to do it in like Guild Wars where advantages come from team work and skill/spell selection not having farmed a rare item or got to rrX so you have more abilities than the others.

Javai,

let me be clear I enjoy zergy fights as well - its part of the game. However I only enjoy them when the zerg has an objective. One of the down sides of a zergy add fest is simply that a lot of people can run around solo. There is not real strategy in zerg fights and it is a rare moment when you do get strategy.

There have been rare moments in a zerg when I have witnessed some excellent strategy. Most of the time though you don't even have 2fgs and I would challenge you to show that this is the norm? If you can demonstrate that a zerg has strategy then by all means do so. Where a zerg uses stealthers and all different classes to the best of its ability....

Most of the time - especially in iRvR all you have is duo's and trios. I don't mind people doing this - like I said I don't really care. It is simply humping the rp. I fail to see how that kind of charging around is attractive. I am entitled to feel like that surely?

Sharky

 

[ebenezer]

Also, i wanna say to shark, that i could never play this game without the friends i met during the years. if they were gone i would quit..instantly. Most i have in cla...but maybe 40% are outside in oher guilds. Not a single one of them(maybe a few then) play this game the same way. Some like soloing, some like zerging, some loves fg fights, and guess what...we are still friends
For me the social bit is way way more important then the play bit only. The reason i never joined a rvr guild etc though i love rvr is that i have no other real friends there...and though they might like the same rvr i do, i find some in those guilds be too competetive...too whiny and not have the same standards or morals as i do outside the game. They may have a high standard acording to them gamewise(no adding etc) but act like rhino poo in many social situasions in this game. And i could honestly say i wouldnt stand a week in their company chatting...even though the rvr might be good

Sure we have our discussions i cla about adding etc. Its funny to see the posts on FH sometimes about cla adding etc. hehe..we are the largest guild in exc maybe over pryd also..not sure. The reason for that isnt that all zergers are drawn to it...cause we have many different playstyles as i said, its cause of the casual policy. We are many older members, many have families and lots of work etc. And therefor just dont care or have time to discuss and whine over adds/non adds etc 5 days of a week. They logg on...chatt with people that are casual and have same morals standars out of game mostly....really enjoy themself. But gamewise we have so many individual styles, i like to solo alot...some really anjoy bridge camping or taking towers...the list goes on. Difference is...when we clash gaming intrests, we discuss it like men. Not like 14 year old boys with the hormones boiling. Most of us gone through that period And result is same everytime, we accept our different playstyles but know we have something greater in common..same rl standards mostly and real friendship. And if someone think i would trade that to play with people that acts like morons socialy but have same gaming policy like me......think again
I spend too much time in the game to spend it with people i dont like...
over and out.

 

[Javai]

Most of the time - especially in iRvR all you have is duo's and trios. I don't mind people doing this - like I said I don't really care. It is simply humping the rp. I fail to see how that kind of charging around is attractive. I am entitled to feel like that surely?

Sharky

You are entitled to feel like that just as I am entitled to feel that I enjoy a headless zerg as much as an organised one

You said you didn't understand why people don't all go off to agramon and play fg vs fg - the answer is because we don't enjoy it, that's surely allowed too

If I wanted to play fg vs fg I'd have to change to not playing with friends who don't have ToA'd group friendly classes, I'd probably have to start using teamspeak, I'd probably have to always play my Sorc because she has the rr to compete. But I like to play with friends who (for example) like to play a necro, or an Armsman or heaven forbid a smite cleric I like to play (as I have this week) my Theurg or my Wizard for a change.

Often when we have 2fgs we try to make some sort of siege action and judging by the numbers of enemies that turn up other realms are wanting that kind of action as well. But I also enjoy sitting on top of a bridge waiting for 2fgs of Hibs to crash into it and see what happens and love it if Mids crash into it while the fight is going on.

What I find galling is people who think we are some kind of lesser beings for preferring that style of play.

 

[ebenezer]

there's a reason i choose to play scout and take on your hero, instead of logging my eld or sm and nuking you or the one you're fighting to pieces for a few rps. melee fights are far more fun, and i can really not comprehend anyone would disagree a good melee fight > adding on one already in progress with a mage.

caster in 8v8 is a completely different thing from soloing and adding around, and i really cba to get into that. try making a fg and bring it to agramon and you will see - you cant just stand at distance and nuke shit down without risk of dying.. there's a lot more to it

anyway, maybe my post was a bit too offensive, but my point was that a lot of people that used to play melee chars rerolled caster instead because they were tired of.. exactely.. those same mages steamrolling them every time. if you can't beat them, join them i guess

just wanna adress what you said about arumi earlier that made me think.
I have spoken to arumi a few times, and i read his posts many times. And im sure you have as well. He is a very decent and friendly bloke, never abuse anyone, and seems very mature. Now...can you tell me why i would have more respect for a guy i never met, and seems like a complete asshole from what i read on these boards, when im on my hero. I have tons of more respect for the way arumi acts and plays then for many of the soloers i met. No matter what he plays, cause i know he is a good guy. I dont get respect for a person just cause he spares me and not add...or cause he bows to me. That just makes me know we enjoy playing alike, but in my head im thinking...oh that guy...he is a complete asshole from what i read on the boards..or from what i have heard about his behaviour. Ofc there are many people i meet that i do like and that plays alike.
I just have a hard time hearing people here om these boards believing that playstyle have anything with how they are. And its extremly imature and narrowminded to believe such a thing. Its that kind of generalisation and thinking that starts racism and other discrimination( taken it to extreme).
Dividing people and abusing without even knowing them.
I think ur better then that vodka..
over and out..

 

[Sharkith]

What I find galling is people who think we are some kind of lesser beings for preferring that style of play.

If I made you feel like that I apologise.

I wanted to post here to say that when you have a very narrow view of a specific thing like 'adding' that is what causes the problem. Not actually the event itself. So some people didn't seem to get that post I just thought then that maybe I should just tell it how it is and maybe the story would work better. I am sure the poor soloers feel it more than others - it is more acute when your not grouped so I do have sympathy for them. I will likely feel it when I roll me shade out again soon hopefully .

The group I am with don't actually worry that much about it and it doesn't seem to bother them like it bothers others. Thats all. That is what is so cool about them (and believe me I am the one who will complain first before any of the others! Thats why I find them great to play with - that tolerance.)

ebenezer's post is really nice and I totally understand why there is such huge variability in how people like to play. Mythic have created a space for all of that to be expressed in the game and it is nice to see it. If there is a problem with adding you can be sure it is not actually with the fact that 2 people hit one other person, it is most likely with the fact that people think there is an essential 'right' not to be added on.

 

[Javai]

If I made you feel like that I apologise.

Thankyou - in fact it wasn't really aimed at your post in particular rather the general 'flavour' of these debates.

 

[Sharkith]

Cheers Javai - it doesn't mean I want your babies though ofc <jokebtw>

Everyone gets frustrated with the game and ebenezer is absolutely 100% right. Just think about this. Labelling a behaviour is really only one step away from labelling a person and that is a kind of racism.

People need to realise that.

 

[athom]

So you never nuked a tank down with your eld vodka? if your gonna use that as an argument against whats fair etc, it would make it more believable if you urself took distance to all caster type characters in game. Cause most casters pawn most tanks in any range type situasions. Doesnt matter if you were in a fg vs a fg when you played ur eld. the guy on other side of his pc is gonna swear and spit cause you pressed your 4 buttons on him and he could do nothing. So would you like everyone to judge you for wanting to play ur eld then?

 

[Javai]

Cheers Javai - it doesn't mean I want your babies though ofc <jokebtw>

Just as well I think Perri might see that as adding irl

 

[Eleasias]

oh and MOST of all, its usually the fg's own fault 80% of the time, take a zone like hadrians for example, if mids have berkstead, and alb beno insta port.

Now if you roam north of the river, where most of the people are, you can EXPECT to get adds, because loads of people there prefer "large" scale rvr, because its mostly hunters/scouts/rangers/casters etc, or assasins trying to kill these.

But yet alot of groups decide to roam there so they can farm these guys, and when they bump into a fg, and the small groups they have been farming all night adds on them, or some zerg finds them, they INSTANTLY start bitching..

you can avoid it yourself, but i know alot of people just LOVE REASONS to WHINE.

(i love whineing too to some extent about other things but i try not to do it too public on forums or irc chans )

I dont think the add whine about minigroups etc has to be taken that seriously, but when its guild groups doing the same shit who claim they are in for the fg fights etc but add the first chance they get, well, its just hypocritical bullshit

 

[Melachi]

Funny you mention TFC, seems to be a few of us here, but there was something similar in TFC, if you played clan style tfc, and that was the less direct cousin of backtracking, potshotting. If you played Offense you know what Im talking about, your busy trying to get passed the enemy Defense, and some respawning enemy Medic starts taking potshots at you as he leaves his base. Grr >

Other lame things were: Lockdowns (though these were occasionally fun ), backtracking, snipers, and gren spam on maps where a resup gave you full nades

TFC was a whiney game, but best online game ive ever played

 

[Gamias]

This is how it goes imo.
You pay for your game you play as you want. No1 can/should tell you anything about the way you play either you pve/rvr adding/not adding.
The point imo is that WE (the players) make a game. You playing as a **** the game will be a ****. You play fairly the game will be smoothly and nice.
An enemy is an enemy ok! But i believe you should be friendly some even to the enemies to enjoy your game. Rps not saying anything so i believe ppl shouldn t play the game for the rps but for having fun. I don t agree with adding and yes there are some limits with that too. Ok add once twice but not 24/7 you make this game shit. Every1 has add and you can t say no to it.

 

[Elrandhir]

This is how it goes imo.
You pay for your game you play as you want. No1 can/should tell you anything about the way you play either you pve/rvr adding/not adding.
The point imo is that WE (the players) make a game. You playing as a **** the game will be a ****. You play fairly the game will be smoothly and nice.
An enemy is an enemy ok! But i believe you should be friendly some even to the enemies to enjoy your game. Rps not saying anything so i believe ppl shouldn t play the game for the rps but for having fun. I don t agree with adding and yes there are some limits with that too. Ok add once twice but not 24/7 you make this game shit. Every1 has add and you can t say no to it.

True mate ;D more or less how I feel really and is how I try to play.

Still if someone do add/help I wont really care much I will get alittle annoyed I guess if I have a nice duel, but Il still just continue without really thinking much about it.

Some comes and kill the enemie you duel and do the last hit when hes on 2% hp or so, and thats just lame and RP horny really, nothing to do with helping you'r realm mates ;D

 

[Box4m]

I think its quite simple ;p i get annoyed with adding in _daoc_ mostly because i know the people who add usually cant do shit when they come even numbers, so i get irritated ;d now flame nikon <3

 

[liloe]

I think a lot of people are just missing the point atm? It was not a post about what you think about adding, it was a post about why adding in DAoC is different as in other games. I guess we all know the standard arguments for adding or not by now, no need to make another 36pages thread about it =)

 

[ebenezer]

hehe im afraid that the discussion have a life of its own

 

[raid]

Personally I dont mind "random" grps adding, its very understandable... Might whine a little on vent when it happens but thats it. But I always get pissed off when guilds/people who claim to be "fg people" add... because they are usually properly equiped, have decent realmranks and know better what to do, basically destroying the fight.

I play some in mid and alb, and theres hardly any difference in adding practices between the "fg ppl pugs"... basically trying to play the same way (either fg or kill-all-rvr) as the people involved in fight:

-if we know that 1 of the grps involved doesnt add, never add
-if its a known addgrp fighting another, add
-if its a pug of fg guild members, give em a chance unless they start adding
-randomgrp... well depends

edit: why would it matter where the action takes place?! either you prefer fair fights or you dont, agramon or hw same shit

 

[Shafu]

I disagree that you dont see this kind of frustration in an fps game such as Counter-strike. I believe that the Counter-strike equivalent to adding is camping. The key word in this discussion is skill. Whether you win a fight or not depends on a number of factors. One of these factors, but not necessarily the biggest factor, is skill. A lot of players are very focused on making skill the deciding factor in every fight, and these are generally the people who will get wound up when they lose an unfair fight. They cannot understand how it can be fun to win for the enemy when skill was obviously not a deciding factor.

Well, that's what I think anyway, because personally, I dont fall into that catagory, so I could be way off the mark The best fights I've ever had in DAoC were against multiple enemies, and I would never consider playing a mmorpg where all fights are instanced/fair. Losing when you dont stand a chance is never fun, but I doubt I would ever get wound up to the point where I would whine about it.

 

[Accupuncture]

seriously guys, im not sure what thread you meant to reply to, but can you double check? cos im pretty sure its not mine.

Nobody gives a toss that you "pay your subscription" or that you think its fine to add because the box says "RvR". shut up and get the hell out of this thread, thats not what im talking about here.

so far only Eyres, Zebolt and Javai are on-topic re-read their posts, then read my posts, then read both again. then take a deep breath, pause for a few seconds to let your one remaining braincell process the task in hand, THEN post.

Most of the other games you quote in your first post are "jump into games" where you dont need to spend any time getting kitted out, dont have the slog to 50 before you can have some player v player action.

Maybe thats why you dont really care about adding in those games.

I find more and more people are moaning more and more about people adding on fights as the userbase is reduced to testosterone filled pre-adolecent children.

Two nights ago the ground just over beno bridge heading towards the docks had around 10 mid/hib/alb stealthers and others dueling away.

Wish I could have been arsed to writenow it sure they said something about holding dick swinging compo's

I personally dont give a crap if im added on or not or if I add on someone else. Its the nature of the game and adding is all part of it.

 

[illu]

I disagree that you dont see this kind of frustration in an fps game such as Counter-strike. I believe that the Counter-strike equivalent to adding is camping. The key word in this discussion is skill. Whether you win a fight or not depends on a number of factors. One of these factors, but not necessarily the biggest factor, is skill. A lot of players are very focused on making skill the deciding factor in every fight, and these are generally the people who will get wound up when they lose an unfair fight. They cannot understand how it can be fun to win for the enemy when skill was obviously not a deciding factor.

Well, that's what I think anyway, because personally, I dont fall into that catagory, so I could be way off the mark The best fights I've ever had in DAoC were against multiple enemies, and I would never consider playing a mmorpg where all fights are instanced/fair. Losing when you dont stand a chance is never fun, but I doubt I would ever get wound up to the point where I would whine about it.

I think I agree with most of this. The only thing is how much skill is involved in most DAOC fights? I know in 1on1 fights, a lot is down to who gets the first hit, but also a lot is down to what you have up at the time, timered abilities, resistances, templates etc. I fought a nifty little hib brehon who destroyed me at bled docks because he had WH+Battler up, and I totally underestimated him - but kudos to him, I'm glad he got some nice RP :>

I think the frustration in DAOC adding boils down to the time it takes to get into fights. And that is the main reason.
We all have limited time to play. In CS/Quake/On-line shooter type of games, you jump in, you kill, you get a small fix, you go.
In DAOC you log in to the charater you have nurtured from birth, you buff them up, you go out to the frontiers, and then have a fight between 2->30 minutes later (depending on time / iRvR). I think the frustration is less when iRvR is about because you die and get back in no time (similar to Quake and the other online shooters - minimal downtime). BUT like last night in normal RvR mode, you travel sometimes 10minutes per fight, to get repeatedly killed by not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 albs almost every damn fight.
Sometimes I'd kill one person then die and wonder why I died so quick - you scroll up and some little archer bastard was pinging away at you most of the fight :/
Luckily I'm stubborn as a mule, and I'll come back most of the time but I'll make sure I try and kill every person that got some damage on me, even if you are hiding up a bridge tower (Helenna + pal )

So I think it boils down to downtime.

Guildwars has insta level 50 toons and less love that you need to give your character apparently. If anyone plays that - do people get pissed off about unfair fights / adding there?

Oli - Illu