Zerkers Post 1.62

svartmetall · May 29, 2003

Originally posted by driwen
Don't the buffs go from your base hp (hp before buffs)?

Yes, I think they do, since in-character you're tapping into your own life essence to do it.

belth · May 29, 2003

Hence with 2.3k hp you won't notice the loss of ~30% of 1.6k, instead of 30%, you're losing 20%, nothing that First Aid won't heal post-combat...

svartmetall · May 29, 2003

...! 2,300 HPs...?

belth · May 29, 2003

Buffbot, etc... Savages are on tank tables afaik, except for H2H weapskill. Ofcourse you lack cons with a valkyn/kobold etc... And are hideously ugly with a d0rf. Norse4tehwin!!onetwothree

svartmetall · May 29, 2003

Nah, Troll for teh win

.

Pin · May 29, 2003

Originally posted by noaim
"Problem" (for the nerfcryers) is, what should they nerf with a 2h Savage that wouldnt affect other classes which should not get nerfed?

Sorry you were unable to see the joke in my post.

Anyway, it's very easy to nerf a single class using a weapon type. Just reduce their weaponskill when wielding those weapons. Just like they did with H2H because it was overpowered with 1750+ weaponskill.

dakeyras · May 29, 2003

2H and H2H savage will get the bat!

It's not a case of if, but rather one of when. The TL has already asked for it, and when a TL requests a nerf you can bet ya ass it is gonna happen.

Savages I feel are relatively balanced, but probably need the nerf on parry which the TL has already asked for. If parry really does work in 1.62 then a class that can boost evade and parry by 21% (for the avg spec) is far too capable defensively to also be a high damage dealer.

If they do what the TL suggests and remove the parry buff then I think savages will be finished.

I actually reckon the humble no-flash Warrior will be the darkhorse of post 1.62 classes. No special abilities or specs but will be the most awesome tank in the game. Uber defense and, unlike the pala, fairly good 1h damage combined with the ability to whip out the 2 hander. Very nice.

swords · May 30, 2003

Originally posted by Arnor2
fucking retard

wait till it goes live, then come here and talk about how much better/worse then the bm/merc the zerker is, until then, shut the fuck up and have a cookie.

especially liked this one you tool

Right, this is general discussion correct.
we are having a discussion about Zerkers post 1.62.
now this is an argument about how these changes will affect the bezerker and game balance on a whole.

An argument is where one individual states his side of the argument with reasonable logic and factual information, and the other side counters with his own side.

What many people do not understand is no matter how many times you call someone a tool/fuckwit or whatever the insult of choice it doesn't actually counter anything thats been said.

so Arnor = bad bad crybaby zerker with no real point
[NP]ArlaHaren= good zerker who hasnt spat the dummy out about the anomaly (that of zerkers doing more dmg than they should. look at the figures for style dmg etc. im sure they are still floating around here) and has decided to continue playing a zerker.

good luck with your new sc template i hope you show these bandwagoners that the Zerker is still a strong class after the patch.

-mamba- · May 30, 2003

made my zerker as my first character ever in daoc without knowing anything about the game beforehand, the concept just appealed me somehow (had only read the class descriptions from game manual)

now after 96+ days /played and many fun fights i have to admit i feel kinda cheated

realm balance wont be affected, savages are already as good if not better and even zerkers will still do loads of frontloaded dmg with 2h weapons... it just wont feel the same without decent LA i think

swords · May 30, 2003

why dont you try playing LA zerker after patch?
you might actually notice your still a powerful class.

Danya · May 30, 2003

Originally posted by swords
35% reduction means they are still doing 65% MORE dmg than CDW styles.

Learn to count before throwing numbers about please.

If both started at the same damage (as you state), then assume both are 1.
Zerkers get doubled to 2.
They then get nerfed by 35%, which reduces them to 1.3.
Thus leaving them 30% higher than CDW, not 65%.

As for whether or not they both started at 1, that's another question, not exactly many logs from before 1.50 to check with.

swords · May 30, 2003

ok, however the basic mechanism for unstyled dmg for the CDW and LA equalled the same over time, it was and is balanced.
the thing throwing LA above CDW is the fact the style growth rates were doubled to ''compensate'' for the fact that the LA mechanism reduced the amount of dmg the hit did (because they always swing both weapons but the dev who implemented the change must have overlooked this)

fact is zerkers will still do more styled dmg than their light tank conterparts but it will not be as excessive as it was.
To be perfectly honest my only gripe about the merc/bm/zerker thing was the fact that the bezerkers special ability (vendo) was on a 7 min timer and actually did something compared to the merc and bm's abilities on a 30 min timer (for some reason)

actually now i think about it im concerned by the fact the new BM ability completely negates any benefit a zerker gets from vendo if he pops TW.

the real victim of this whole LA fiasco is not in fact the Zerker but the shadowblade.

Karlo · May 30, 2003

The fact is LA did too much dmg and so... was fixed. Not nerfed.

It will be back to how it should be, spare a thought for Bm's and mercs plz.

klavrynd · May 30, 2003

Everyone that's on about the fact that LA allways swings, seems to forget that this doubles the chance on getting a heal- / ablative- / reactive DD- / reactive DOT- proc , for a neglectable damage tradeoff, but hey , there's no growth factor for that so lets just forget it

Flimgoblin · May 30, 2003

Originally posted by parzi
whine bout 2h savage = look at friar

friar's on the hybrid hp/weaponskill table....

StormriderX · May 30, 2003

Taken from the herald -_-

A way of illustrating this is that a Blademaster should not be able to go head to head (one on one) with an Armsman or Warrior (primary tank) and reliably win.

They then go on to say

Even with the Left Axe reduction in damage, the Berserker will still be able to take on an enemy primary tank and win more often than not - which is a departure from the light tank concept, but is essential in keeping the spirit of the class that is familiar to those players who are longtime Left Axe users

QQ more.

Full transcript can be found here.

old.Reno · May 30, 2003

Originally posted by klavrynd
Everyone that's on about the fact that LA allways swings, seems to forget that this doubles the chance on getting a heal- / ablative- / reactive DD- / reactive DOT- proc , for a neglectable damage tradeoff, but hey , there's no growth factor for that so lets just forget it

So you don't put procs/poisons on your offhand weapon?

Danita.

Arnor · May 30, 2003

Originally posted by swords
Right, this is general discussion correct.
we are having a discussion about Zerkers post 1.62.
now this is an argument about how these changes will affect the bezerker and game balance on a whole.

An argument is where one individual states his side of the argument with reasonable logic and factual information, and the other side counters with his own side.

What many people do not understand is no matter how many times you call someone a tool/fuckwit or whatever the insult of choice it doesn't actually counter anything thats been said.

so Arnor = bad bad crybaby zerker with no real point
[NP]ArlaHaren= good zerker who hasnt spat the dummy out about the anomaly (that of zerkers doing more dmg than they should. look at the figures for style dmg etc. im sure they are still floating around here) and has decided to continue playing a zerker.

good luck with your new sc template i hope you show these bandwagoners that the Zerker is still a strong class after the patch.

sooo, your discussing about how bad a nerf you have heard/seen logs of, thats not even live?

and im a crybaby? me that hasnt said ANYTHING about the nerf except that it seems a bit harsh atm?

and your referring to me as a bandwagon-zerker?

ok, first off: You are a moron

secondly, I started my zerker the tuesday after the game went live, it was my first ever char, and I didnt make a single alt till he was lvl 50, i've played him since release and will continue to play him. My zerker is the only one I know, except Sub that actually has capped quickness, which brings our "OMGROFL2HITTANKDMGDIEIRL" dmg almost down to reasonable levels.

This is pretty rich imo comming from a lvl 49 mercenary that what, has played since november?

You take your ass out of here and stop this inane discussion, it has NO point whatsoever except to be a flamebate/inane discussion thread. When the patch is live and on europe, then take this shit up, not a second earlier.

Untill I've played and tested it myself, I will not comment anymore then that the nerf looks a bit harsh.

belth · May 30, 2003

Originally posted by swords

the real victim of this whole LA fiasco is not in fact the Zerker but the shadowblade.

Sorry but neither are victims. LA-spec SBs least of all.

salamurhaaja · May 31, 2003

Originally posted by belth
Sorry but neither are victims. LA-spec SBs least of all.

You are so wrong.
They suffer the most, by being handing out their arses to infil/NS.

You ever thought of that zerkers don't solo, they run in groups.
When their damage is 30% less than now, they still got backup from rest of group.

While SB you are usually alone soloing and when your damage is 30-40% less than before, oh yeah it's gonna freaking hurt.

Rollie_David · May 31, 2003

Originally posted by salamurhaaja
You are so wrong.
They suffer the most, by being handing out their arses to infil/NS.

You ever thought of that zerkers don't solo, they run in groups.
When their damage is 30% less than now, they still got backup from rest of group.

While SB you are usually alone soloing and when your damage is 30-40% less than before, oh yeah it's gonna freaking hurt.

Its gonna hurt but you was doing far too much damage for an assasin, SB outdamaged every other assasin easily, as said before sal, people can cry about this but it needed to be done, since LA became so powerful look how many zerks and SB were made. When i was list holder in malmo the assasin/zerk list was huge compared to any other class.

As for zerks, come-on guys, you know full well that zerks damage output combined with castable end-regen was just far too much. I grouped with you alot in middy arnor and we killed LA groups and VGN easy in equal numbers or any other group 99% of the time. Most of the time it was too easy killing equal number groups, and obviously it was nice at the time but i knew it would get the bat because it was simply too uber. It took very little effort for us to kill anything, i mezzed/stunned/rooted and the zerks just killed everything in seconds.

belth · May 31, 2003

Originally posted by salamurhaaja
While SB you are usually alone soloing and when your damage is 30-40% less than before, oh yeah it's gonna freaking hurt.

So, your damage gets downscaled from 200+ pre-resists by 30-40%? Cry me a river. It's still quite a bit higher than the Alb/Hib assassins do on their anytimes.

vindicat0r · May 31, 2003

Originally posted by salamurhaaja

While SB you are usually alone soloing and when your damage is 30-40% less than before, oh yeah it's gonna freaking hurt.

Well seems the thread I started is just another flame war about LA etc etc.

The real Question was what will most zerks do 

As for ur statement Sala I dont mean to insult u but I cant remember the last time I met an unbuff'd solo SB. I ask'd my brother the same Q and he likes to run around Odin for solo's < Nerf Friars ^^> and he said the samething. Perhaps this nerf to SB's will mean they will simply grp more :/

salamurhaaja · May 31, 2003

Originally posted by vindicat0r
Well seems the thread I started is just another flame war about LA etc etc.

The real Question was what will most zerks do 

As for ur statement Sala I dont mean to insult u but I cant remember the last time I met an unbuff'd solo SB. I ask'd my brother the same Q and he likes to run around Odin for solo's < Nerf Friars ^^> and he said the samething. Perhaps this nerf to SB's will mean they will simply grp more :/