Zerging should give more RPs?

[Lejemorder]

Spirit-Cabby and the rest of unpopular classes/specs does fit in balanced group (well, not Necro ).

spirit cabby not fitting into a balanced grp??
the whole point in a caba/sorc assist grp (maybe albs best choice for rvr grp atm) is the spirit caba

 

[Saggy]

spirit cabby not fitting into a balanced grp??
the whole point in a caba/sorc assist grp (maybe albs best choice for rvr grp atm) is the spirit caba

Read again

Spirit-Cabby and the rest of unpopular classes/specs does fit in balanced group

 

[chretien]

And yes, Smite-Cleric, Spirit-Cabby and the rest of unpopular classes/specs does fit in balanced group (well, not Necro ).

Don't see why not, the AF debuff is truly evil, ok there are a lot of broken things on the necro but I wouldn't go so far as to say they had no place at all.

On the whole skill thing, I stand by my stance that mostly skill = time + not being an idiot. Differences between characters are greater by far then differences between players. Casualgamer pretty much summed up my argument so I shan't repeat it but just a few things in response to Neonblues' points in particular. Yes knowing how to play your class is skill, knowing when to fire certain abilities and how to react to a situation would be classed as skill. My argument is that really, most players who are thoroughly familiar with their class are all at approximately the same level of skill so saying that skills = wins isn't really true as unless you run into an ebayed soloer or a group still learning the RvR tactics, one group isn't likely to be significantly more skilled than another. All the uber groups you mentioned put time into being as effective as they can possibly be. They put in the time to farm for cash for the best crafted gear, the time to gain and level the best artifacts and earn the master levels. Then they put in time to train as a group so that every member of the group knows exactly what to do and what the group is capable of. I take Yussefs point that teamwork is also a skill but again, that teamwork comes at a price of time invested in learning the limitations. I don't begrudge them that in the slightest so I'm not whining about not getting into gank groups as someone suggested - that style of RvR doesn't appeal to me at all, I'm just pointing out that the skill curve is flatter after a point than most people would probably like to believe.

 

[Lejemorder]

Read again

i dont even want to say sorry for the mistake with that attitude/smiley

 

[Saggy]

Don't see why not, the AF debuff is truly evil, ok there are a lot of broken things on the necro but I wouldn't go so far as to say they had no place at all.

Necro spell lines are awesome but the class in whole is way too bugged to be playable in RvR. Give Necro spells to a normal caster and you have made the best caster in Daoc

i dont even want to say sorry for the mistake with that attitude/smiley

Wasn't paying any attention on the FH-description/looks of that smiley (bet you didn't either, would explain your attitude), just typed : and o which is an neutral smiley (well, I'm not an expert of smileys so feel free to enlight me). Sorry if I hurted your feelings. And no, no need to apology.

 

[Ilum]

Yes knowing how to play your class is skill, knowing when to fire certain abilities and how to react to a situation would be classed as skill. My argument is that really, most players who are thoroughly familiar with their class are all at approximately the same level of skill so saying that skills = wins isn't really true as unless you run into an ebayed soloer or a group still learning the RvR tactics, one group isn't likely to be significantly more skilled than another.

This really isn't true. This is probably the worst attitude possible for RvR. I.e. "I lvl'ed this char to 47 so I don't need any advice m8". I play a lot in RvR, far more than the average DaoC'er, and I know what I'm talking about. This is also the case of PvE.

There is a _big_ difference between people in how they perform. And a big portion of it depends on whether people are willing to take advice from more experienced players, or whether they think they know everything and get offended when someone offers advice.

 

[chretien]

This really isn't true. This is probably the worst attitude possible for RvR. I.e. "I lvl'ed this char to 47 so I don't need any advice m8". I play a lot in RvR, far more than the average DaoC'er, and I know what I'm talking about. This is also the case of PvE.

There is a _big_ difference between people in how they perform. And a big portion of it depends on whether people are willing to take advice from more experienced players, or whether they think they know everything and get offended when someone offers advice.

Right, but that is a separate issue to the one at hand. People who think they know it all but don't are not 'thoroughly familiar with their class'. Taking advice from more experienced players falls under the 'not being an idiot' heading.

 

[Saggy]

On the whole skill thing, I stand by my stance that mostly skill = time + not being an idiot. Differences between characters are greater by far then differences between players. Casualgamer pretty much summed up my argument so I shan't repeat it but just a few things in response to Neonblues' points in particular. Yes knowing how to play your class is skill, knowing when to fire certain abilities and how to react to a situation would be classed as skill. My argument is that really, most players who are thoroughly familiar with their class are all at approximately the same level of skill so saying that skills = wins isn't really true as unless you run into an ebayed soloer or a group still learning the RvR tactics, one group isn't likely to be significantly more skilled than another. All the uber groups you mentioned put time into being as effective as they can possibly be. They put in the time to farm for cash for the best crafted gear, the time to gain and level the best artifacts and earn the master levels. Then they put in time to train as a group so that every member of the group knows exactly what to do and what the group is capable of. I take Yussefs point that teamwork is also a skill but again, that teamwork comes at a price of time invested in learning the limitations. I don't begrudge them that in the slightest so I'm not whining about not getting into gank groups as someone suggested - that style of RvR doesn't appeal to me at all, I'm just pointing out that the skill curve is flatter after a point than most people would probably like to believe.

Hmmm, so summa summarun: In Daoc skill is involved in many many ways and the number of idiots playing the game is rather huge? By your logic I would concider to be an idiot by saying that I've played with much more skilled players than what I'm :< I've always played fairly well each of my chars but the first time I got to see how some of my friends play I was shocked and never managed to copy their playstyle and get to their "level". Oh, before that I was preaching on that skill has no part in Daoc at BW

There is a _big_ difference between people in how they perform. And a big portion of it depends on whether people are willing to take advice from more experienced players, or whether they think they know everything and get offended when someone offers advice.

Well said, Oo Imo oO

[edit: Just to give more things to think about Oo Some of us are able to concentrate on many things at the same time (drink, drive, wank and speak in phone or something) while some of us can concentrate only on one thing. This is an skill or natural talent, whatever you want to call it. I would imagine this works on Daoc too Oo]

 

[Ilum]

Right, but that is a separate issue to the one at hand. People who think they know it all but don't are not 'thoroughly familiar with their class'. Taking advice from more experienced players falls under the 'not being an idiot' heading.

Then I have to agree with Saggy. You're basically saying that 99% of people playing DaoC are idiots.

 

[[NO]Subedai]

It's because they play the exact same setup night after night so they get very used to playing that way. Being high RR with all the RAs that make the most difference helps too - and before anyone says it, getting to high RR takes time not skill. I'm not saying there is no skill at all in DAoC, I'm just saying that once you've got a reasonable amount of experience of playing your character in a particular group setup, unless you are a complete idiot, you'll be pretty much as effective as any other similar character with the same spec/RAs etc. Most of the skill in DAoC comes from putting together a group that will work - in other words strategic planning. Sure it takes 'skill' to play to your potential but mostly it's learned experience. You don't the hand to eye co-ordination of an FPS, or the razor reflexes. Yes you need good situational awareness and a solid understanding of your class but that's not the same thing as natural talent and the difference between players is smaller than the difference between characters. I'd be fairly sure that if I swapped characters with a high RR paladin, neither of our characters would perform particularly differently once we'd got used to the respective specs.

When I said that luck plays an important part, I wasn't necessarily talking about the RNG and game mechanics, I was more talking about the human factor. You win or lose fights mostly based on who you happen to bump into, opted group into zerg will lose, opted group into low RR pickup group will win.

i think there is skill in a BG tank switching gaurd and BG around to be most effective to the dmg being dealt on enemies, watching dmg closely and wer eenemy tanks are.
RR is just as dependent on how good u are aswell as time.

 

[[NO]Subedai]

i feel pity for you.... no really .... i do .....

ur the 1 with the 50 thane

 

[[NO]Subedai]

Next you'll tell me they aren't on the qbar

Then pray tell me why every time we run into any Mid/Hib groups we get hit by instas?

With mids it is insta mezz setting up for insta stun. If that don't work its insta disease. With Hibs you get the mezz and the root.

Why is it that Hibs/Mids always 'claim' not to use instas when we all know that it is total bollox.

Instas grant a massive advantage in the 50/50 contests where noone gets the jump. To refute that is denial. Instas buy you reaction time. Instas gain the initiative. Hitting an insta just cannot be described as skill. Getting a qc mezz in first is skill.

Will really be interesting to see what happens with Frontiers regarding realm balance when there is less det around. Really is about time Mythic stopped skirting around the issue of instas.

the best cc'ers usually single insta the enemy cc'er and overlay a casted aoe mes on that.

 

[Garok]

Let me try and explain this to you. You might pass it off with a laugh, but if you actually fucking think about it, it isnt that difficult to understand. I would class quick reactions as a form of skill, and if the Healer registers that theres a enemy group on his screen, before the Sorc or the Bard does, and manages to push the aoe mez button first, thats classed as quick reactions.

Fair enough i would class Skill as a mixture of reaction's/knowledge but mostly based on both parties being given the same tools..

For instance if me and Michael Schumacher had a race, me in Porche and Michael in a Peddle Car around Monaco ........
Whos gonna win ?...... Me most likely ......
Why Because im More Skilled ?

So are you so much of a clue less Moron that you think click one buttons lightly quicker that the other person is the defenition of "Skill"

Try getting laid.
/life lesson.

In your case i dont think Lady Palm and here four friends count

Lol, i'm suprised you even know what Puberty means, you shouldnt be learning that untill atleast half way through primary school.

Im most likely old enough to be your Dad mate and am "irl" as you would say already a father so hence the fact that i have passed the stages of puberty..... unlike some People

 

[CstasY]

So are you so much of a clue less Moron that you think click one buttons lightly quicker that the other person is the defenition of "Skill"

Read again, I said it proves quick reactions, and that I would class quick reactions as a form of skill.

In your case i dont think Lady Palm and here four friends count

I can tell you're a comedian irl.

Im most likely old enough to be your Dad mate

Heh, i doubt it.

and am "irl" as you would say already a father so hence the fact that i have passed the stages of puberty..... unlike some People

You cant adopt at the age of 7 afaik, might be wrong though.

 

[Garok]

You cant adopt at the age of 7 afaik, might be wrong though.

Try 35 imo .........

 

[Garok]

Read again, I said it proves quick reactions, and that I would class quick reactions as a form of skill.

So the quick reactions to zip your flies up when your knocking one out over Net Pr0n and you hear you mummy come up the stairs is "skill" .......

 

[Sigurd]

Unsurprisingly, the elite tosspots are defending their 8vs8 vigourously. The game was DESIGNED to be played as large scale warfare, whether your mother's crappy computer can handle it or not isn't Mythic's fault. If you like "tactical warfare - skirmish battles" then play Ghost Recon or some other crappy "OMGROFLLOLOLOL MY 1337 HAXX0RS PWNS J00" skirmish game. DAoC is about large scale warfare, for those of you who don't like zergs and can't bear to part from the game - either learn how to play with people who don't have 4000 lightyears to spend perfecting their DAoC "skills" but are still PEOPLE with an opinion and, believe it or not, are mostly willing to learn - OR fuck off to Camlann/Mordred where you can pretty much live on 8vs8. I never really understood why your sorts stayed on normal servers tbh, I mean.. you seem to hate anyone who isn't "uber1337" or didn't follow your own idea of how to play the game, you're about as co-operative as an orphaned crab, and you'd prefer to masturbate with a vacuum cleaner than help defend the realm (unless, of course, there's an opportunity to make some realm points whilst making sure none of your realm mates get any...) so why are you here? Oh... wait. Could it be... to show off how "uber" you are? Just like most kids, you have to have an audience, otherwise your "achievements" mean nothing. Without hapless newbies staring in wonder as your harpy cloak-clad gank group hurtles past Prydwen Keep, or runs past your corpse in Darkness Falls, it just wouldn't be any fun, would it?

I suggest, powergamers, you either ADAPT or get out now. When Frontiers arrives, most skirmishes will hopefully be nerfed into oblivion. And if you find a way around it, as I know that's what you're thinking, well... sooner or later the normal gamers are going to get pissed off. They may not be able to stop you treating them like imbeciles and cattle, and ordering them about like so much human garbage, but they can certainly get up and leave the game for good, stripping you of your audience. Somehow, I don't think you'd hang around for long after that...

BTW: Chretien certainly isn't a newbie, my friends (I know you only measure someone's ability in playing this game by their realm points, but please try to understand, just once in your life, that not every success is recorded...) I remember many an instance where he saved his group and guildies, and the times he helped me out - this guy was twisting before it had become popular, and the fact that he does well with an Avalonian Paladin is quite an achievement I'd say.

 

[Killerbee]

I suggest, powergamers, you either ADAPT or get out now. When Frontiers arrives, most skirmishes will hopefully be nerfed into oblivion.

Doubt it, but as I said ~ 5 times already, if fg vs fg didnt work anymore then RvR guilds would move in 2 fg and kill huge numbers etc.

Btw, what do you think about those (not powergamers) who like the solo, skirmish (for me it means 2-5 ppl max) fights?

 

[Saggy]

Unsurprisingly, the elite tosspots are defending their 8vs8 vigourously. The game was DESIGNED to be played as large scale warfare, whether your mother's crappy computer can handle it or not isn't Mythic's fault.

The game isn't designed just for large scale warfare, its just one part of it ;o

Why in the name of god people dont still get the reasons and benefits of 8vs8 RvR? All you can do is calling people by names like "RP-whores", "1337-kids", "elite tosspots" ? Very mature, really. Is it really too hard to believe that people are actually doing it for fun and following their common sense? It's not about the size of the force, its about as equal and fair fights as possible. Sure, the game may change to 2fg, 5fg or 10fg, whatever, but that wont make the HUGE benefit of being balanced disappear - Anyone can form a balanced group but making a balanced force of 5fg, however, is much harder and guess what? Someone will make it. Have you ever thought how much firepower in that kind of group would be? Even two balanced full groups have wiped entire relic forces many, many times, go ahead and do the math.

Oh, I hate zerg whines and I have absolutely nothing against zerging. As for "RP-whores" take a look at this thead - It isn't the "elite tosspots" who want more RPs, its the zergers And yes, from my experience most of these "elite tosspots" care more about having fun than RPs, same can't be said about majority of zergers, unfortunelaty :<

Tip for the future posts: By using bad language and calling people by names your posts wont be taken seriously, they will get totally ignored or there will be stupid flamewar.

 

[Ilum]

Unsurprisingly, the elite tosspots are defending their 8vs8 vigourously. The game was DESIGNED to be played as large scale warfare, whether your mother's crappy computer can handle it or not isn't Mythic's fault. If you like "tactical warfare - skirmish battles" then play Ghost Recon or some other crappy "OMGROFLLOLOLOL MY 1337 HAXX0RS PWNS J00" skirmish game. DAoC is about large scale warfare, for those of you who don't like zergs and can't bear to part from the game - either learn how to play with people who don't have 4000 lightyears to spend perfecting their DAoC "skills" but are still PEOPLE with an opinion and, believe it or not, are mostly willing to learn - OR fuck off to Camlann/Mordred where you can pretty much live on 8vs8. I never really understood why your sorts stayed on normal servers tbh, I mean.. you seem to hate anyone who isn't "uber1337" or didn't follow your own idea of how to play the game, you're about as co-operative as an orphaned crab, and you'd prefer to masturbate with a vacuum cleaner than help defend the realm (unless, of course, there's an opportunity to make some realm points whilst making sure none of your realm mates get any...) so why are you here? Oh... wait. Could it be... to show off how "uber" you are? Just like most kids, you have to have an audience, otherwise your "achievements" mean nothing. Without hapless newbies staring in wonder as your harpy cloak-clad gank group hurtles past Prydwen Keep, or runs past your corpse in Darkness Falls, it just wouldn't be any fun, would it?.

You don't have to resort to personal insults. I accept that people play this game differently. People can play it whatever way pleases them. I don't need to defend my way of playing the game - I don't really care what you think about it. Not a person full of prejudice like you are. I'm just saying what I have come to believe about it, after playing it for a long time in regard to what kind of skills and abilities it demands from a player.

 

[Sigurd]

One bad turn deserves another. Nonetheless my posts are flameless compared to some. I do find it funny that people say 8vs8 is about fair fights... if so, why do you 1337 RvR guilds attack pick-up groups? Is that fair? Are these RR1s-5s really going to win? I have never ONCE seen a pick up group defeat, hell, even kill ONE of the members of the top RvR guild on my current server. 8vs8 is only fair when it's one RvR guild vs another, and even then it comes down to RAs, reaction times, how well you know your class and the surroundings JUST LIKE FULL RVR. As you can see, it isn't fair, it's just about being "uber" and having the crowd love you, etc.

To clarify: I have no problem with people enjoying the occasional skirmish, I do myself. However... when they demand that everyone else does the same, that no-one kills their "prey" (read CoC guys, all enemies in RvR are fair game remember?) and completely forget that we're supposed to be fighting as a realm and not a bunch of seperate, squabbling groups, it just gets to me. It destroyed Midgard Prydwen (no idea if they've managed to rebuild) and I've seen it destroy other servers.

 

[Ilum]

One bad turn deserves another. Nonetheless my posts are flameless compared to some. I do find it funny that people say 8vs8 is about fair fights... if so, why do you 1337 RvR guilds attack pick-up groups? Is that fair? Are these RR1s-5s really going to win? I have never ONCE seen a pick up group defeat, hell, even kill ONE of the members of the top RvR guild on my current server. 8vs8 is only fair when it's one RvR guild vs another, and even then it comes down to RAs, reaction times, how well you know your class and the surroundings JUST LIKE FULL RVR. As you can see, it isn't fair, it's just about being "uber" and having the crowd love you, etc.

To clarify: I have no problem with people enjoying the occasional skirmish, I do myself. However... when they demand that everyone else does the same, that no-one kills their "prey" (read CoC guys, all enemies in RvR are fair game remember?) and completely forget that we're supposed to be fighting as a realm and not a bunch of seperate, squabbling groups, it just gets to me. It destroyed Midgard Prydwen (no idea if they've managed to rebuild) and I've seen it destroy other servers.

Noone is demanding anything in this thread, people have just stated that zerging shouldn't award _extra_ realm points. Which is what this thread is about. Not a debate around the Gank Squad / Realm v Realm or FG v FG issue.

 

[Balbor]

Well, think about it before making a retarded post.

If you solo a fg, that demonstrates a huge amount of skill, so you are awarded high realm points for doing so.

If you kill a fg with a fg, you are awarded less, but still an average amount.

If you kill a fg with a zerg of 3-10 fg's, this demonstrates no skill, and the only reason you are winning is due to numbers, so you are awarded rp's based on the number of random OMG MATES ITS A REALM VS REALM GAME NOT FG VS FG GAME pricks who follow you.

think its this guys fault, by saying you use no skill in a zerg he kicked off the whole argument. That kinda of attitude, which is aimed at people in his own realm that does play the game his way is a bit sad. The game is played by over 2000 people on some servers at peek time, everyone has the right to RvR, but it currently rewards those that play in a way that was not forseen by mythic (and genraly not the way they want it to continue) the most. Mythic probably hoped that the game would involve large battles where inderviduals and teams would make there mark as part of a larger army.

 

[Balbor]

Zergs are not full of stupid people, infact they are the opposite. Only a fool would keep running off to a bottleneck camped by more powerful players and get killed over and over again. Forming an army, getting it co-ordinated and moving together takes some skill and patence, if they have a pour leader (or more than one leader) they begin to fall appart and get picked off.

There may be some truth to the 'zergs require skill etc...' after all just because your group is doing well doesn't mean everyone else is, Cleric can heal and cure people outside of there group, Shield Tanks looking out for other casters, Caster CCing people on other s etc, all of which requires you to judge the situation and can't be solved by spamming spread heals etc.

Yes after a certain point the side with the most people wins, but thats one of the rules of war.

The main problem with zergs (appart from performance issues) is that the loosing side cannot get back into the fight faster enough, with new frontiers, this whould be fixed as you can have two keeps with bind stones next to eachother enabling nice long battles that involve real tactics to win.

Currently the game does reward more people getting involved for the group (you get a bigger bonues the more people in the group) now if that bonues was carried over to Battlegroup. Include some way for this to also effect the RPs people get for killing a member of a BG. BGs are a lot easyer to get into than a group during the heat of battle and keep sieges and relic raids would be be more rewarding (even if you don't suckseed),

 

[Ilum]

think its this guys fault, by saying you use no skill in a zerg he kicked off the whole argument. That kinda of attitude, which is aimed at people in his own realm that does play the game his way is a bit sad. The game is played by over 2000 people on some servers at peek time, everyone has the right to RvR, but it currently rewards those that play in a way that was not forseen by mythic (and genraly not the way they want it to continue) the most. Mythic probably hoped that the game would involve large battles where inderviduals and teams would make there mark as part of a larger army.

The problem here isn't necessarily that the system rewards gank groups - it might as well be that you see realm points as the only reward for RvR-ing. It's not uncommon I notice "casual gamers" and "zergers" obsessing more about realm points than "gank group" members.

Zergs are not full of stupid people, infact they are the opposite. Only a fool would keep running off to a bottleneck camped by more powerful players and get killed over and over again. Forming an army, getting it co-ordinated and moving together takes some skill and patence, if they have a pour leader (or more than one leader) they begin to fall appart and get picked off.

I'm not saying Zergs are full of stupid people, all I'm saying is that it takes skill, teamwork and knowledge to play an RvR group well. And this is not a "common property" among players.

Currently the game does reward more people getting involved for the group (you get a bigger bonues the more people in the group) now if that bonues was carried over to Battlegroup. Include some way for this to also effect the RPs people get for killing a member of a BG. BGs are a lot easyer to get into than a group during the heat of battle and keep sieges and relic raids would be be more rewarding (even if you don't suckseed),

I'm sure this is doable and maybe the majority wants this change. I don't know.

 

[Tomtefan]

It's quite intresting how this thread has turned out... All the people which got highRR chars seems to be those that also enjoys FGvsFG while the people with the lowRR chars seems to prefer the "large-scale" battles...

New Frontiers have the idea of "restoring the fun of RvR for our entire playerbase" or something like that. However Mythic has with the introduction of ToA literally tried to eliminate the casual players. Those who dont bother with ToA is quite inferior in RvR situations when compared to a player who bothered with "Timesink of Atlantis" and twinked his char with all the phat l3wt.

People who have been playing in one of these "l33t gank groups" on a regular basis have probably started to like the level of the battles which take place, in comparison to random 3fg zerg faces random 3fg zerg... When you play against another "l33t gank group" with your own gank group you are mostly forced to take some decisions, bluntly put, make a effort.

The community of DAoC has however started to fall deeper and deeper into the chaos of discussion which is "I > j00", "no I > j00" which most of these "l33t gank groups" are having on these forums. People these days care far too much about how other people regard them, if they think that they are skilled players or if they are "teh n00bs".

The eternal discussion about that skill doesn't exist in DAoC is also getting intresting. As the saladin (Yussef) pointed out earlier, skill comes out of practice and natural perception (etc, etc). Most people who are for the arguement that DAoC != skill are those that compare it to a FPS. DAoC hasn't ever been based on pure hand/eye coordination but it's instead based upon reviewing/analyzing the situation and making moves based on it.

Example: Defending tank realises that the assisttrain isn't far away from the cleric, Defending tank leaves assisttrain and runs to the cleric in order to try to prevent melee damage through bodyguard/guard/grapple.

Perhaps it didn't require some "m4d ski11z" in order to do it but few people are observant enough in order to play a defensive tank correctly. Realmrank, equipment, MLs does matter alot indeed but most of the people that have achieved a certain RR have come there through learning their char and utilising it to it's maximum. (However there are some chars which this isn't necessarily correct, HI OUTLAW!).

(My personal opinion is that those that bother should really be able to dominate those who didn't, even though people can use the arguement that they dont have enough time to play as much doesn't mean that they should be equal to someone who has played/farmed for his character far more efficent/more time then him).

And as a final question: Has those of you that prefer large scale battles actually participated in a regular gank group for some time and then realised you prefer large scale battles? Because if you haven't then you dont really have any right to flame those who does prefer 8v8...

 

[Zapsi]

i think most peoples point on the skill discution is that if your playing as part of a RvR optimized/gank group, (say 3 Savages, 1 Skald, 1 Aug/Cave Shamen, 1 Pac/Mend 1 Mend/Pac and 1 Aug/Mend healer) all with Uber/SC gear, some using buff bots, using the MA train tactic kind of takes away the need for skill inorder to be effective. The MA assisting macro took away the need for all members of the goup to determin the right character to go for, and Spread heal too away the need for healing classes to determaning and selecting the person who needs healing most. Theres too much automated stuff in the game and it this that that gank group reliy on, you can't say they don't cause they all use there
.

Some of the things u mention here are the things that actually make u loose.
Sqeesing in 1 extra sigle heal instead of using SH, can be the difference in a fight.
Assist macro works but just the tiny 1/10 of a sec u win thinking instead of spaming a macro with delay helps. Sure shift f2 stick spam assist anytimer will get u fare but not fare enough.

Planing perfecting timing comon sence and yes some skills are needed.

 

[Saggy]

One bad turn deserves another. Nonetheless my posts are flameless compared to some. I do find it funny that people say 8vs8 is about fair fights... if so, why do you 1337 RvR guilds attack pick-up groups? Is that fair? Are these RR1s-5s really going to win? I have never ONCE seen a pick up group defeat, hell, even kill ONE of the members of the top RvR guild on my current server. 8vs8 is only fair when it's one RvR guild vs another, and even then it comes down to RAs, reaction times, how well you know your class and the surroundings JUST LIKE FULL RVR. As you can see, it isn't fair, it's just about being "uber" and having the crowd love you, etc.

There is an "hidden" standard for force sizes on each server I have ever played. The only thing you can do for fair fights is following that standard but that alone wont quarantee fair fights. This is what I meant about "common sense" - I for one dont like to play in unbalanced groups by knowing balanced group would spank us in few secs so I rather put in some work when forming the group. Oh, like I said it could be 2fg, 5fg or 10fg, the same idea would remain so I'm not defending just 1fg RvR, just saying making balanced force of 8 peeps is much much easier than making balanced force of 80 for example. And why oh why do balanced groups attack random groups? You answered to it by yourself I believe:

To clarify: I have no problem with people enjoying the occasional skirmish, I do myself. However... when they demand that everyone else does the same, that no-one kills their "prey" (read CoC guys, all enemies in RvR are fair game remember?) and completely forget that we're supposed to be fighting as a realm and not a bunch of seperate, squabbling groups, it just gets to me. It destroyed Midgard Prydwen (no idea if they've managed to rebuild) and I've seen it destroy other servers.

Who is demanding everyone to do 1fg RvR in here? If I understood your previous post you made it clear that the only real way to RvR is zerging and that's what people should do, no? <Oo Imo oO> is an roleplay guild, for us patrolling (with 1fg) and seeking enemies (1fg's) when there is no threat makes sense, still plenty of time for taking and defending keeps. Oh, add-whines are pointless but understandable - People may get angry if their long and good fight is being ruined. If you get whined at dont take it too seriously, I know I didnt

Without this "hidden" standard of force sizes we would get back to the "lovely" time of either 10fg+ Albs camping mmg/E 24/7 or 10fg+ Mids camping amg/E 24/7. There is lots of limits on force movement if its made to outnumber the enemy, just getting Mach5 for each group is mostly impossible. Downtime is what I hated in game the most (pre-ToA ), lots of it in making balanced group but even more in making zergs to being cabable just to move Oo

Btw, only reason I'm posting here is that I'm having terrible withdrawal symptons for leaving the game, threads like this helps me staying away!

 

[Sigurd]

It doesn't have to be here, but most 8vs8 players demand that everyone else follows their lead. The best RvR fun I had was when I lead a force out of DC and hit an alb force in the side, in a 70vs70 battle, or close to that... it was great fun, it wasn't over in seconds, and we finally emerged victorious, at a cost of half our army lying dead... now that's much closer to medieval warfare than 8vs8 could even hope to get... whenever I play in an assist-train oriented group (most groups on the US servers sadly) I really don't enjoy it that much... sure, I might get more realm points, but at a cost of having fun.

If other people insist on this 8vs8 madness, then: I would ask that they do not tell other players how to play, look down on other players because they have less RPs (but may be better players) and try to act a little less selfishly - and also, remember that any enemy in the frontier is fair game (in World War 2 would a soldier have stood by to watch one of his allies have a shoot out with an enemy soldier?)

 

[Loch]

You mean like someone going on and on about 'The game is changing towards large scale battles, live with it!' or 'wtf, piss off you elitist rpwhores and go play cs, daoc is realm vs realm!' or! even 'back in my day, there were less rps but more fun around, ye gods 'nam was crap rps but at least I came back with all my limbs!11'
Yea I agree that sort of person shouldn't try and force their views onto people that don't want any part of it.