Zerging should give more RPs?

[klavrynd]

Getting a qc mezz in first is skill.

so hibs gotto dump bards and use lightelds, and mids use dark sm's to mezz to be equally skilled as albs (mid/hib main mezzing classes can't qc mezz uc?) and have 375 less range. cute ...

 

[Dook]

To that you could also add to the fact that lots of gank group players on this forum works hard to make the gank group guys look like imbecilles or social twats and who wants to join such a crowd?

The same can be said for the opposing crowd of people.

It's a two way street etc, only the 1FG RvRs admit to not liking the zergers for what they do, zerg. In my experience the "zerging crowd" generally act just as superior as the random twats who like to post and make gank groups look bad.

 

[Iceflower]

>"I know, I don't have a valid response to Dooks last comment so I'l pick at his poor grammar in one post to look cool!"

Sigh, add reading comprehension to your list

 

[Dook]

>"I know, I don't have a valid response to Dooks last comment so I'l pick at his poor grammar in one post to look cool!"

Sigh, add reading comprehension to your list

And again!

Finding it hard to come up with valid responses? Flaming always helps that

 

[Balbor]

Okay, so in your desperate attempt to prove a point you're going to completely disregard the fact that most good CCers don't use their instas anymore anyway?.

Right... so bards don't use instent 2300 interupt and healers don't use there instent stun before following up with a top AOE mezz. I think the only CCers that can say they don't use instent CC are sorcerers, Ice Thurgies and Earth Wizards.

Okay!

Knowing where to run in certain situations isn't skill? Knowing what ability to use in any one particular situation isn't skill? Knowing what target to choose, knowing how to dispose of that target in the quickest possible way without getting killed and at the same time making sure your group members are alive and free from attack isn't skill? Sure!

Since when does having a macro that makes sure all your tanks are attacking the same targe mean skill, or spamming AOE disease to make sure everyone is perma snared or just casting spread heals? The whole point of gank groups is to take away the skill needed to kill people and make it as easy as possible.

What makes me laugh most is the fact that it's always the zergers (IE. The ones who don't have the ability to get into a 1FG gank group and then claim not to want to) who claim that DAoC does not = skill. There's a reason why most of them aren't in gank groups to begin with, it's because they have none.

I think you'll find that people don't get into gank groups because they play one of the many classes that don't fit into a gank group. And if those that can play well just end up getting kicked out by people like you that want the most optimised group you can get. I guess your best skill is being able to count to 4, '4 tanks and 4 Seers, lets go...'

Skill in DAOC is a cleric soloing a SB that had jumped him, not a group of 4 different classes, some with BB, using the same formular to win.

 

[Dook]

TBH Balbor, I think your last post demonstrated exactly why you're not in a gank group.

Done with this post, t'is pointless.

 

[Lejemorder]

so hibs gotto dump bards and use lightelds, and mids use dark sm's to mezz to be equally skilled as albs (mid/hib main mezzing classes can't qc mezz uc?) and have 375 less range. cute ...

i think he meant getting qc mezz (i know longer ranger etc.) vs instant mezz is really hard, but ofc getting normal mezz in w/o qc is ofc harder, but u can allways use instant aoe amnesia as hib, ofc mids cant but if the got 2 awake healers 1 can normal mezz and 1 cast amnesia (insane range on amnesia ).

and i will call it skill to learn when u shall use instant and when u shall not, same count for gp, sos, bof and other RAs.
Ofc it r not skill just to /assist /stick spam style, but it for the assist team expect the ma to pick the right target (u need alittle skill/learn the other realms to be a good MA).

 

[klavrynd]

Skill in DAOC is a cleric soloing a SB that had jumped him, not a group of 4 different classes, some with BB, using the same formular to win.

no that's called wishful thinking

 

[Balbor]

TBH Balbor, I think your last post demonstrated exactly why you're not in a gank group.

Done with this post, t'is pointless.

LOL i've played in gank groups dispite being a smiter, you'd be amazed how many MA trains go right for the smiting cleric and ignor the others ,

 

[Balbor]

no that's called wishful thinking

yeah talk to Nobrot about that wishful thiniking

 

[Killerbee]

LOL i've played in gank groups dispite being a smiter, you'd be amazed how many MA trains go right for the smiting cleric and ignor the others ,

You played in opted grp, not gank grp.

And what the skill to solo a sb with a smiter, even after nerf? I killed 3 ns's after nerf just due to pure luck, I played below my average and still won (jus t because rnd generator and their lack of buffs, rdy RA's).

 

[Succi]

stop digging a hole balbor

 

[Garok]

Lmao! So, landing the first mezz in a battle, doesnt take skill? Or quick reactions as Chretien seems to think. I'm laughing irl at you. Fucking bellend.

So the skill is who ever presses the button first

LMAo you clueless fectard you call that skill..........

Come back when you have grown outta Puberty and can come up with a have decient arguement ...little Boy :<

 

[Saggy]

I'm not saying there is no skill at all in DAoC, I'm just saying that once you've got a reasonable amount of experience of playing your character in a particular group setup, unless you are a complete idiot, you'll be pretty much as effective as any other similar character with the same spec/RAs etc.

"I'm not saying walking doesn't need skill, I'm saying once you have enough experience of it, unless you are a complete idiot, you'll become pretty much as good walker as anyone with similar size of legs and same boots." Tell me, is skill involved in anything by your logic and what exactly is skill? Skill != learned experience?

But yeah, Daoc is fairly simple game - Does that mean you dont need skill in it? Hell no! Because its simple the skill is playing bigger part than in any FPS game. Playing well isn't hard and all you need is experience but for mastering in it you need A) experience (which will lead to B eventually, some peeps reach it faster for many reasons, one being C) B) skill and C) natural talent. I have two friends (they are brothers) who are very, very skilled/talented/experienced in chess - both of them said that skill have helped them even in Daoc Before they joined the army few months ago one of them had 20mil+ RPs and the other one almost reached 30mil RPs within their chars.

 

[Asty]

So the skill is who ever presses the button first

LMAo you clueless fectard you call that skill..........

Come back when you have grown outta Puberty and can come up with a have decient arguement ...little Boy :<

someone doesn't have a clue

 

[Garok]

someone doesn't have a clue

No just my life is not all spent in front of my computer .....

Since unlike some People in not a D0rk ..........

 

[CstasY]

You can indeed...

Predictable Response.

 

[Casualgamer]

I have two friends (they are brothers) who are very, very skilled/talented/experienced in chess - both of them said that skill have helped them even in Daoc Before they joined the army few months ago one of them had 20mil+ RPs and the other one almost reached 30mil RPs within their chars.

To be honest, all that shows is those lads really really need the army to get them away from their keyboards and into the fresh air.

There's loads of rubbish talked about "skill". What is "skill" ? Pressing a button a millisecond before someone else ? Having your qbar set up in a certain order ? Skill does exist (let's face it, we've all played with healers who don't heal in time, or tanks who break mezz), but while there are a few players who are worse than normal, the vast majority, after playing their characters for any time at all, are pretty much indistinguishable. You've got to look at what affects a fight. All these things matter more than "skill" : character level, RAs, MLs, weapons and armour, group class balance, buffs, who got the jump on who, the random combat calculator, the numbers of characters involved on either side. Then, if all those things are equal, skill might be the determining factor. There aren't many fights like that. It's a very small factor of what makes success or failure, whether in a zerg or in an 8v8 fight. In DAoC, as in any MMORPG, by far the most significant factor in someone's success is not skill, it's time. Time to get the gear, time to level the characters, time to spend amassing the RPs to get the RAs. Time, time, time, time, time.

I suspect most people need to believe that there is skill involved in whatever they do, whether it's getting XP or getting RPs. Because if you spend most of your leisure time playing a computer game, it's kind of an empty feeling to think that you've demonstrated nothing of value. Claim that you're "skilled" and it makes you feel better about all those wasted hours. Doesn't make it true though.

 

[bult]

i think he meant getting qc mezz (i know longer ranger etc.) vs instant mezz is really hard, but ofc getting normal mezz in w/o qc is ofc harder, but u can allways use instant aoe amnesia as hib, ofc mids cant but if the got 2 awake healers 1 can normal mezz and 1 cast amnesia (insane range on amnesia ).

and i will call it skill to learn when u shall use instant and when u shall not, same count for gp, sos, bof and other RAs.
Ofc it r not skill just to /assist /stick spam style, but it for the assist team expect the ma to pick the right target (u need alittle skill/learn the other realms to be a good MA).

fyi normal castspeed is FASTER then QC if you are buffed

 

[CstasY]

So the skill is who ever presses the button first
LMAo you clueless fectard you call that skill..........

Let me try and explain this to you. You might pass it off with a laugh, but if you actually fucking think about it, it isnt that difficult to understand. I would class quick reactions as a form of skill, and if the Healer registers that theres a enemy group on his screen, before the Sorc or the Bard does, and manages to push the aoe mez button first, thats classed as quick reactions.

Come back when you have grown outta Puberty and can come up with a have decient arguement ...little Boy :<

Lol, i'm suprised you even know what Puberty means, you shouldnt be learning that untill atleast half way through primary school.

 

[Saggy]

To be honest, all that shows is those lads really really need the army to get them away from their keyboards and into the fresh air.

Their /play is prolly above avarage but much much less than mine for example (and no, I'm not proud of it) You dont need skill to reach RR11 ML10, all you need is time. You dont need skill to build a nuclear bomb, all you need is time to learn it. The thing is some peeps manage in it faster than others and maybe, just maybe one reason for it is that they are more skilled?

There's loads of rubbish talked about "skill". What is "skill" ? Pressing a button a millisecond before someone else ? Having your qbar set up in a certain order ?

Ok, is skill involved in anything? Why isn't pressing a button one millisecond faster than anyone else time after the time a skill? Afterall, according to this thread razor reflexes are one of the reasons why skill is involved in FPS games but not in Daoc I would rank good team-work as an skill anytime too.

You've got to look at what affects a fight. All these things matter more than "skill" : character level, RAs, MLs, weapons and armour, group class balance, buffs, who got the jump on who, the random combat calculator, the numbers of characters involved on either side. Then, if all those things are equal, skill might be the determining factor. There aren't many fights like that.

Of course skill isn't the only factor that determines who wins and who loses. That wont, however, make the importance of skill disappear. Fights between the balanced (equal size of) groups of lvl50s with the most essential RAs, good gear and buffbots happened all the time pre-ToA. That will leave you the random combat calculator and "who get the jump on who" - Not much you can do for the random combat calculator but if you are a skilled driver and you have skilled CCer in your group you wont get jumped into and with good driver and good CCer you will get the jump.

 

[Yussef]

A FG vs FG does offer RP bonuses due to the group size, of course you cannot compare beating an enemy FG with your FG against soloing a FG. But you're looking at a 600 or so RP bonus per enemy. Perhaps the original poster asked for the rp bonus to be scaled even further for the numbers used.

Now the famous "skill" argument. Time != skill alone, however a greater amount of time used = better performance generally. It applies to most things in life. Just because you can shoot a gun, it does not mean that you can shoot a gun better than someone else most of the time. Practice makes perfect and hones the "skill" factor in most activities. If I spent more time practicing something, I would expect to be better than someone who has not trained. If you disagree, perhaps wake up to life. Of course there is a "base" factor involved in skill, but time is the ultimate component involved, yet it cannot be disregarded either just because you cannot input the same amount.

It is easier to argue against the appearance of skill in this genre, due to other factors such as level, equipment and ML/RR and so forth taking a major part in the game. But even working effectively as an unit is a valued skill. You would be expected to be able to work within a team/society in real life, why not in a game? The first and second generation MMORPG's have generally used big timesinks to allow you to achieve a "common" field of play, but they are a business, of course they are going to lift the bar higher. Until the third generation MMORPG's are released, expect the same.

Also, the argument that because it's a game, you should not take it too seriously is pointless. Games are always taken too seriously/lightly, fun is subjective, there is no universal truth to the word. I enjoy pitting myself against others and trying to be one of the best at what I do. Others do not enjoy that, that does not undervalue my fun against your fun however. Football for example, it's *only* a game, however it is *life* to some people.

My last point is, time != skill as some people argue, we are not generic off the factory conveyor players. Putting everyone in the same scenario with the same amount of time will not harness the same results. Some people will have the edge, knowledge, reactions or any other quality that will allow them to surpass the achievements of their peers, do you truely believe that the results will be the same? I think not, to me that is "skill".

 

[NeonBlue]

let me try and get this straight....ur trying to tell me...that guilds such as PE FL... Outcast..Stigmata...BO...Mael...EL...GA... Eclipse etc...have all got their Rps by total luck ?!?!....yes ive picked all the RvR guilds because these guilds RvR the most and use opt'ed/gank groups

So according to what ive read in this thread...all these guilds have got high RR chars...and lots of guild rps...just down to luck timing and qual of equipment and whether their RA's were up.....none of this has been accomplished by skill ???

so going on that ....that means my RR6 sorc ...got all her rps by total luck?....i didnt know when to use single mez instead of aoe mezz...i didnt know when to use aoe root instead of aoe mezz...i didnt know when to use MoC...i didnt know when to lifetap instead of CC'ing this was all down to pure luck, timing and qual of my items and Ra's !?!

and ooooh btw i never used QC because as someone already said...fully buffed and with mota...u will cast quicker than using QC

yes you could u say thats from knowing ur char ...from learning what they can and what they can handle...but isnt that classed as skill?

knowing what targets to pick to CC...to nuke....to interrupt...this is all luck ?

foook ive been playing the game wrong for the last 2yrs !!!!

 

[Bagloor]

skill = an ability that has been acquired by training

Ofc you need skills to play this game, almost anything in life requires some skills. Some come easy some is harder. And argue requires skills to, but some ppl are so extreamly bad at it that they start to insult instead. You probably need skills to insult to but it surley requires less.

 

[NeonBlue]

skill = an ability that has been acquired by training

Ofc you need skills to play this game, almost anything in life requires some skills. Some come easy some is harder. And argue requires skills to, but some ppl are so extreamly bad at it that they start to insult instead. You probably need skills to insult to but it surley requires less.

ppl who need to insult instead of putting forward a constructive reply..wont get far in life...without getting a good kicking along the way

 

[Invisibul]

lmao, more rp's for zerging, thought ppl didn't want zergs, this only ecnourages it, if u were to get more rp's for zergs ofc.

 

[Ilum]

People generally severely overestimate how much realm rank affects a characters performance. For starters, its much less than whats hyped. And secondly, you have to time them and use them at the right moment to make them efficient. So there is a skill element in putting them to use.

 

[Zaffa]

haha

you ppl wonder why so many are leaving DAoC?

lol

anyway, i got teh solution, that makes everyone happy \o/

make the lord of keeps drop 2k rps pr lvl?

the l33t groups can still farm ppl in emain, there will still be pickup groups, but now, the pick up groups actually got a decent chance of getting some rps + the groups will start moving away from emain, as the easy rps (pickup groups) are going for remote keeps to get some rps in peace

and the pickup groups will have something to aim for, and the roleplayers allso get rps for taking keeps.

u know, after beening farmed for a few days in a row without getting in a decent group rvr gets kinda boring for most ppl, and skill in daoc?

well, u gotta know ur own char, gotta know ur realms chars, and u gotta know the other realms chars, some basic psycologi, so u can tell natural reaktions, and trick ppl away, and then, a press the button first skill :x

as for the leet ppl getting pissed when they get zerged? STFU

u farm random groups allday and they dont have a chance, and u know it, so why do u get pissed when someone kills you and u dont have a chance of winning, its the same thing...

anyway, a good advise for u all, if u get pissed irl from playing daoc, ur taking the game way to serious, i mean, why are u playing if u aint enjoying urself?

 

[Balbor]

i think most peoples point on the skill discution is that if your playing as part of a RvR optimized/gank group, (say 3 Savages, 1 Skald, 1 Aug/Cave Shamen, 1 Pac/Mend 1 Mend/Pac and 1 Aug/Mend healer) all with Uber/SC gear, some using buff bots, using the MA train tactic kind of takes away the need for skill inorder to be effective. The MA assisting macro took away the need for all members of the goup to determin the right character to go for, and Spread heal too away the need for healing classes to determaning and selecting the person who needs healing most. Theres too much automated stuff in the game and it this that that gank group reliy on, you can't say they don't cause they all use there.

Its not so much a messure of Skill level but indervidual skills and knowellage you pic up from playing, such as enemy class identification, and enemy strenghts and weaknesses.

People hate zergs not so much as they over run everything, but because the RPs earned is very low. If this was change so that the group that does the most damage gets full RPs while anyone else on gets there % based on damage.

I've seen possed (only one that comes to mind was a Skald one, might of been on VN boards) where people have said they are moving to a realm to play xxx class mainly for RvR, what should they do etc? and been given the responce "... don't expect to get a good group unless you spec this exact way, get to a certain masterlevel and a certain RR level..." Has RvR turned into a huge catch 22, even if you want to get into a RvR group you need to first get good enough, but you can't get good enough unless your in a RvR group, only option is zerging (or at least 'adding' and putting up with abuse).

 

[Saggy]

People hate zergs not so much as they over run everything, but because the RPs earned is very low. If this was change so that the group that does the most damage gets full RPs while anyone else on gets there % based on damage.

If I'm not mistaken the group dealing the most damage IS getting the most RPs and that's the problem for RP-hungry players Oo For fair RP sharing make Battlegroups to work in RvR and share the RPs equally with everyone in it and in range. By this method your zerg of 10fgs would get equal amount of RPs by killing 10fg as 1fg by killing 1fg, no? Why people hate zerging? One reason is that there is always someone spamming AE-nukes/DoTs to leech RPs and ruining the fun of CC classes for example - from my experience in zergs your worst enemy is your RP-hungry allies.

Has RvR turned into a huge catch 22, even if you want to get into a RvR group you need to first get good enough, but you can't get good enough unless your in a RvR group, only option is zerging (or at least 'adding' and putting up with abuse).

Having problems in getting a RvR-group? Solution? Call 1-8000-Make-Your-Own-Group. Really, if you are expecting get to play in group-RvR but you cba to put any effort in making a group yourself, well, you deserve to stay solo And yes, Smite-Cleric, Spirit-Cabby and the rest of unpopular classes/specs does fit in balanced group (well, not Necro ).