Why do you give a f*ck about stuff you can't change/doesn't affect you?

[Ch3tan]

This is why people should give a fuck about things that don't seem to affect them. But as we never learn from history, I can understand why threads like this pop up:

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me -
and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Basically the message is: It's not your fault, if the world is like this, but it's our fault if she remains like this.

I hate those kinds of messages, because it implies that there's a certain way the world should be.

What if some of us want a post-nuclear wasteland?

Who made "those people" the rulers of everyones future?

The world of tomorrow will be, as it is today, a collective of the earths population and their combined actions.

But as we never learn from history, I can understand why threads like this pop up:

Well that's a nice highhorsey way of putting it. All hail the smarter uberrace of ch3ddar.

 

[Ch3tan]

Why so much anger Toht, are you still upset that you are getting evicted? I thought you were going to be more seel than toht, it seems you've become more troll than anything else.

It seems you want to take issue with every post I make, go seek help.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Why so much anger Toht, are you still upset that you are getting evicted? I thought you were going to be more seel than toht, it seems you've become more troll than anything else.

It seems you want to take issue with every post I make, go seek help.

No, it's just you. You claim you have me on ignore, so keep me there and stay the hell out of my threads and stop making jabs at me on every turn.

Everyone else in this place can be cool and not cling to old stuff, but you're just fueling old bullsh*t(poking every now and then, throwing that troll crap around) and no one needs it.

I'm not angry, i'm bored, completely bored of your whining.

 

[gohan]

tbfh, ch3ts post was very on topic and wasn't a jibe at you atall, go clam yourself down, take a time out in the corner maybe have a crywank then come back when you can play nice

 

[old.Tohtori]

tbfh, ch3ts post was very on topic and wasn't a jibe at you atall, go clam yourself down, take a time out in the corner maybe have a crywank then come back when you can play nice

Yeah it wasn't, doesn't remove the way he's been acting all the time. There's nothing to cry about, just want him out of my face.

 

[gohan]

Yeah it wasn't, doesn't remove the way he's been acting all the time. There's nothing to cry about, just want him out of my face.

but he wasn't in your face, you were in his!


it's like "yeah i punched him, but he was looking at me funny wasn't gonna let the **** punch me first"



childish at best

 

[old.Tohtori]

but he wasn't in your face, you were in his!

it's like "yeah i punched him, but he was looking at me funny wasn't gonna let the **** punch me first"

childish at best

Wasn't talking about this thread, but don't want to ruin someone elses with it.

Drop it anyway, going to just ignore him and if he keeps it up, ask someone to step in.

 

[TdC]

I hate those kinds of messages, because it implies that there's a certain way the world should be.

in your own mind, maybe. to hazard a guess, I would say that the world will balance at all times. humans on the other hand, tend to not like balance, due to being (generally) weak willed creatures who tend to want things sooner rather than later and thus have no desire to wait for anything, and absolutely hate not being able to get what they want. If you want a nice example of this in action, see if you can find this film: The Gods Must Be Crazy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well that's a nice highhorsey way of putting it. All hail the smarter uberrace of ch3ddar.

except of course that Chetan is essentially correct in this case. which puts your problem somewhere else.

 

[Chosen]

No need to get personal now guys

 

[old.Tohtori]

in your own mind, maybe. to hazard a guess, I would say that the world will balance at all times. humans on the other hand, tend to not like balance, due to being (generally) weak willed creatures who tend to want things sooner rather than later and thus have no desire to wait for anything, and absolutely hate not being able to get what they want. If you want a nice example of this in action, see if you can find this film: The Gods Must Be Crazy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Meant more towards the blame insinuated in the line quoted, using guilt as some kind of a forcing point.

People should just do their own thing and let others do their own.

except of course that Chetan is essentially correct in this case. which puts your problem somewhere else.

Yeah, the problem is elsewhere, but as said, didn't want to ruin someone elses thread with it. I should've said that in the apartment thread, more fitting i suppose.

 

[Ch3tan]

No, it's just you. You claim you have me on ignore, so keep me there and stay the hell out of my threads and stop making jabs at me on every turn.

Everyone else in this place can be cool and not cling to old stuff, but you're just fueling old bullsh*t(poking every now and then, throwing that troll crap around) and no one needs it.

I'm not angry, i'm bored, completely bored of your whining.

You mean digs at you like you've made after every post I've made in other peoples threads? That you have the gall to accuse me of throwing the first blow, or ruining others threads is absolutely laughable.

Stay the hell out of my threads; lol, is that not what Ez used to say to you, did it stop you? You stream roll through every thread you can yet can't accept someone you don't like posting in yours (on topic I may add).

Maybe you are referring to the jab I made at you in teedles thread about jackets... oh wait not, I had a friendly dig at teedles, and you decided to have a go at me for no reason.

I do have you on ignore, but that doesn't mean I can't read your posts if I choose or post in your threads. If you really don't want me to, then post on another forum, I won't follow you, I promise

 

[old.Tohtori]

I started poking at you because you were acting like a dick, no matter what i did, after santamas holidays. Not a very nice way to go about it, i know.

If you can drop all the past crap, and stop with the constant troll remarks(not to mention the personal), AKA anti-tohtori stuff, i don't see a problem.

Basically, you treat me like else, i treat you like else, handshake, status quo, resume regular "No you a fag" friendly jabs?

Sound any good, or should we just ignore eachother for good?

 

[TdC]

it would be nice if you two sorted something out. other users are commenting on your handbagging tbh.

 

[liloe]

I hate those kinds of messages, because it implies that there's a certain way the world should be.

What if some of us want a post-nuclear wasteland?

Who made "those people" the rulers of everyones future?

The world of tomorrow will be, as it is today, a collective of the earths population and their combined actions.

One question then. Do you mind if I kill you? Apparently the only acceptable state is: everybody gives a shit about the earth and every single individual, because everything else would be dictating others your own point of view. So if everybody must give a shit, why should you give a shit about your own life?

Now who's point of view is worth when I dictate that you have to die and you dictate that you want to live.

 

[old.Tohtori]

One question then. Do you mind if I kill you? Apparently the only acceptable state is: everybody gives a shit about the earth and every single individual, because everything else would be dictating others your own point of view. So if everybody must give a shit, why should you give a shit about your own life?

Now who's point of view is worth when I dictate that you have to die and you dictate that you want to live.

That makes little sense, first because i never said everyone should give a sh*t.

Secondly because the alternative to what i said isn't about everyone caring about everyone.

What i did state is that it's bullsh*t to set blame on everyone who doesn't change the world to what you want it to be.

Everyone should do what they feel is right and those actions should mold the world to what it will be, better or worse, from everyones POV.

You killing me is your POV(not too shared i'd believe in a neutral persons view), clashing ofcourse with my own(and many others), but that is YOUR POV to hold still.

the only acceptable state is; no one should dictate to others their POV.

 

[Chosen]

the only acceptable state is; no one should dictate to others their POV.

The part there is what many dont understand at all, especially when it involves religion.

Who is there to tell you there exists no God, and you are stupid if you believe in one?

or

Who is there to tell you that there is a God, and shal judge you because you don't believe in one?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Exactly.

If you want to piss standing on your head, go ahead. If you want to wear pink underwear, knock yourself out. If you want future to be a gloomy dark place where grannies eat abbies, SUUURE. If you want to disown all religions and feel they're stupid, why not.

If however you feel you need to tell other people how they should eat, slleep, drink, act, wear, believe, not believe, f*ck, etc etc etc... out.

Nice of you to add both sides to that btw

 

[Raven]

Arguing with him is exactly what he wants. Just ignore him.

 

[Cerb]

Because it seems a majority of us were raised in environments where the morals pointed to caring about things like these.

Occam's razor and all that...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Because it seems a majority of us were raised in environments where the morals pointed to caring about things like these.

Occam's razor and all that...

But even if the morals you were raised by are there, it doesn't mean that they are the only way to go.

Everyone should be able to choose(within law and all that) their own path, morals and way of life.

Raven; stop that.

 

[Calaen]

Egg and chips

 

[Thorwyn]

But even if the morals you were raised by are there, it doesn't mean that they are the only way to go.

Everyone should be able to choose(within law and all that) their own path, morals and way of life.

"Within law and all that" also covers within existing morals, because the law is mostly built upon out ethical and moral codices. So yes, everybody is entitled to do whatever he wants to do AS LONG AS he doesn´t violate any existing ethical rules. Even your argument about "doesn´t mean that they´re the only way to go" is already an ethical paradigm in itself, and not even a questioned one, because that´s what our society of "freedom of speech" is all about.

But as soon as we´re talking about a greater aspect of ethics than just the average homo or hetero choice, it´s getting complicated. Is killing animals for fun a valid "moral path" that anyone else shoud respect and comply with? Is living on dole and welfare a valid way of living that anyone else should deal with? Is smoking in public places a natural right?

I think you´re making it far too easy when you´re trying to scale it down to just "your way of living". There are many things that affect other people, even if it doesn´t affect them in a direct way, directly or indirectly.

 

[old.Tohtori]

As far as i know, killing certain animals(hunting is an accepted sport) and smoking in public places is against the law.

By law and all that, i mean the rules which everyone should live by and get punished if they don't. Living on the dole isn't one of those(per example).

I make it so simple, because it is so simple in my opinion.

If you're not breaking the law, or hurting other people, it's your choice and the society can f*ck off.

No one was talking about others respecting your choices, liking your choices, or even accepting them.

For example; people living on the dole don't bother me, never did, what the tax man takes, i forget about.

In essence, you're trying to deny me the right to not care.

 

[Cerb]

Your logic works, but only up to a point. If you jump infront of my blowing rasberries but nto touching me as I walk down the street, you are not really doing anything direct to me or against the law afaik, but you'll likely get a punch. If that makes any sense.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Your logic works, but only up to a point. If you jump infront of my blowing rasberries but nto touching me as I walk down the street, you are not really doing anything direct to me or against the law afaik, but you'll likely get a punch. If that makes any sense.

Sure, your choice is to punch me, as much as it was my choice to blow rasberries in your face. But it's a choice both made and the consequences are linked to those choices.

BUT, it should BE my choice to do so as well as your choice to punch me.

Then again, punching someone for that will most likely get you in trouble, not me.

 

[Thorwyn]

In essence, you're trying to deny me the right to not care.

Nono, not at all.
I`m merely questioning the right to be an antisocial asshole that says "but that´s my way of living, deal with it."
A society has more rules than just the words that are written down in the lawbooks. And as soon as people consider their own freedom as more important than those rules, it becomes some kind of moderated anarchy.

 

[liloe]

That makes little sense, first because i never said everyone should give a sh*t.

Secondly because the alternative to what i said isn't about everyone caring about everyone.

What i did state is that it's bullsh*t to set blame on everyone who doesn't change the world to what you want it to be.

Everyone should do what they feel is right and those actions should mold the world to what it will be, better or worse, from everyones POV.

You killing me is your POV(not too shared i'd believe in a neutral persons view), clashing ofcourse with my own(and many others), but that is YOUR POV to hold still.

the only acceptable state is; no one should dictate to others their POV.

You didn't say everyone should give a shit, but you said that the moment someone tries to change other people's behaviours, that's dictating one's PoV. So basically I can say "poor people in RandomCountry", but I can't help them, because through my help I'm suggesting how they should get out of the crisis.

So if I say "help for RandomCountry is good, because I want that nation to flourish" and you say "help for RandomCountry is bad because I was post-nuclear wasteland there", then we're both trying to dictate our PoV. Again this situation is totally absurd, but it's good to illustrate what most people here want to say.

Trying to change the world is nothing bad. Would you say Martin Luther King was wrong when he stood up in public for the rights of black people? He was acting against the law, you know …
Same goes for Sophie Scholl and a lot of other people who stood up against an unfair situation.

They all tried to dictate others their POV, but was it wrong?

EDIT: Thor said that pretty well already: You're trying to drag thing to a far too easy level.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And you two are dragging it waaay into extremes.

MLK chose to break the law and make a speech and do what he did, people chose to listen. Nothing wrong there.

People using blame and like Thorwyn there, "antisocial asshole" comments, is stupid however.

Trying to change the world, it's not bad, i never claimed it, but making your choice the only choice and all other choices evil, that's bad.

liloe, you can freely go feed everyone in africa, but if they don't want it, you have no right to force it.

And yes Thorwyn, i do consider my own freedom more important then the moral code of some uptight morons telling people what to do.

Rules are rules, society ethics and morals are not.

 

[Calaen]

C o c k