Why do people dislike America/Americans ?

[throdgrain]

Thats not how it is thoguh ECA. And the moment a society, or country, gets advanced enough to think like that, to be tolerant of other creeds and religions, thats when the new blokes come up from beneath you, because they dont have time to be thinking about tolerance, they just want to better thier lives, and who can blame them ?
This has happened to every empire / superpower the world has ever seen, and will no doubt happen to the USA as well.
Its not for nothing that most hippys free thinkers anarchists etc come fro mthe educated "middle" classes.
Just a thought.

 

[dysfunction]

No, I'm proud of the fact that I'm a part of this country. etc...

I have the exact same feeling and I'm from South Africa. I dont feel the same way about South Africa maybe because its history isnt as wealthy and its lack of traditions. Dont get me wrong I do love South Africa but I feel more English/British or whatever.

I love living in London I think its a great city. I hear about or find little treasures in it nearly everyday.

 

[Maljonic]

My wife is American and she's very nice.

 

[pez]

Thats not how it is thoguh ECA. And the moment a society, or country, gets advanced enough to think like that, to be tolerant of other creeds and religions, thats when the new blokes come up from beneath you, because they dont have time to be thinking about tolerance, they just want to better thier lives, and who can blame them ?
This has happened to every empire / superpower the world has ever seen, and will no doubt happen to the USA as well.
Its not for nothing that most hippys free thinkers anarchists etc come fro mthe educated "middle" classes.
Just a thought.

what are you talking about? The society ECA has talked about has never existed. The closest we have come are places like the UK and scandanavia in recent times and no one has come up and overthrown them with facist patriotism. The USA is nothing like the society ECA mentioned and neither was ancient Greece/Rome or Spain/Aztecs or British Empire and all those got overthrown. So for all we know a tolerant global non-patriotic society is the safest and strongest there is

 

[pez]

When it comes down to it Patriotism = Aggression

When Patriotism was at its height in the UK we were being agrresive all over the world.

When Germany was at its most Patriotic hello WW2 and Genocide

Russia gets Patriotic and its Cultural domination of Eastern Europe and Siberian Slave camps

US is patriotic it agressively dominates the current world.


Think of the times of greatest Humanitarian Achievement and scientific progress and the vast majority were non-patriotic. The Renaissance for example ahd nothing to do with Ital Spain or France it was a cross-cultural articistic and scientific explosion.

The internet ffs! Its the least patriotic thing i've ever seen and it allows so much!


i say again, nothing good has ever come from Patriotism except maybe the moon landings and lets be honest who the fuck really cares?

 

[tris-]

according to the internet the moon landings are fake.

so i believe everything it says

 

[dysfunction]

The internet ffs! Its the least patriotic thing i've ever seen and it allows so much!

Really?? The internet is dominating the world...so by your definition it is....

Banking, Gambling, Games, Telephone, Shopping....all done on the internet. You could probably start a war using the internet if you knew how.

 

[DaGaffer]

When it comes down to it Patriotism = Aggression

When Patriotism was at its height in the UK we were being agrresive all over the world.

When Germany was at its most Patriotic hello WW2 and Genocide

Russia gets Patriotic and its Cultural domination of Eastern Europe and Siberian Slave camps

US is patriotic it agressively dominates the current world.


Think of the times of greatest Humanitarian Achievement and scientific progress and the vast majority were non-patriotic. The Renaissance for example ahd nothing to do with Ital Spain or France it was a cross-cultural articistic and scientific explosion.

The internet ffs! Its the least patriotic thing i've ever seen and it allows so much!


i say again, nothing good has ever come from Patriotism except maybe the moon landings and lets be honest who the fuck really cares?

Hmmm, what's the word...oh yes, cobblers. First of all you assert patriotism=aggression, but actually, just like religion, patriotism is just an excuse for aggression; take it away and it will be replaced by something else. And patriotism isn't entirely negative; just like religion it can be harnessed to serve noble ends (the British abolition of slavery wasn't a 'patriotic' act as such, but the Royal Navy spent nearly a century on anti-slavery duty and that very much was seen as a patriotic act; the 'British' thing to do).

As for the Renaissance being a 'non-patriotic' achievement; nonsense. Most of the artists and thinkers were either in the pay of kings, princes or popes (and were commissioned to serve their glory, or God's, but their state's really ) or, in later times like the Enlightenment, most of the great Natural Philosophers like Hooke, Newton or Wren in England or later social philosophers like Rousseau and Voltaire in France, were by their own reckoning, fiercely patriotic.

As for nothing good coming of patriotism; The American Revolution was a patriotic act, and ultimately a very good thing for the world. Nelson Mandela is a patriot, Gandhi was a patriot. You can't simply say patriotism=bad, like everything it is far more complicated than that. And think it through for a moment; patriotism is closely connected with the nation state, you probably can't have a nation state without at least some belief in that nation by the people who live there, which in broad terms, is patriotism. What would you prefer instead of the nation state?

Oh, and there are plenty of people who think the Internet is a tool of Anglo-Saxon cultural imperialism.

 

[tris-]

Hmmm, what's the word...oh yes, cobblers.

best line ever

 

[Calaen]

No, I'm proud of the fact that I'm a part of this country. I don't feel I'm insecure, but it helps to be able to define myself as being British, which carries certain implicit values when dealing with other nationalities and their expectations.

I like the fact that we had a QE1. I like being able to read about the monarchy through history. I like how there are castles galore, and old buildings that are treasured. I like that we had a republic/dictatorship and thought it was shit. I like how we had a powerful navy. I like how we colonised countries (and generally did a good job as well). I like how we stood up to Hitler. I like that we've got a well trained military and 4 nuclear subs. I like that we have the best motorsport engineers in the world.

I'm also especially proud of the BBC.

Its bloody great this country, and I like it here. Most people who don't like it need to try experiencing life in other countries, and not just as a tourist.

99% agree with what you have said apart from the BBC they are going to remove Grandstand because they think people dont know what it means any more :-( and I detest paying aTV license for something I dont watch.

 

[Trem]

I think this country is a shit hole run by retards who get voted in by spastics.

I like Scotland though, Ireland is also a hell of a lot nicer. Compare Dublin to Birmingham.

 

[DaGaffer]

Compare Dublin to Birmingham.

That's not really fair is it? Compare anywhere to Birmingham and it'll look good.

 

[gmloki]

When it comes down to it Patriotism = Aggression

When Patriotism was at its height in the UK we were being agrresive all over the world.

When Germany was at its most Patriotic hello WW2 and Genocide

Russia gets Patriotic and its Cultural domination of Eastern Europe and Siberian Slave camps

US is patriotic it agressively dominates the current world.


Think of the times of greatest Humanitarian Achievement and scientific progress and the vast majority were non-patriotic. The Renaissance for example ahd nothing to do with Ital Spain or France it was a cross-cultural articistic and scientific explosion.

The internet ffs! Its the least patriotic thing i've ever seen and it allows so much!


i say again, nothing good has ever come from Patriotism except maybe the moon landings and lets be honest who the fuck really cares?

Causation does not mean correlation and Patriotism does not mean Aggression. Personally I have never been a big fan of the old fan fair of flag waving and going all glassy eyed because of good old blighty. That said the blind ignorance of the politically correct over recent years has really opened my eyes. I am fed up of people saying you can't have a flag in your car in case you offend some minority group. Im really annoyed that a boy of ten at my sons school is being prosecuted for supposedly saying something racist.

I still think this country is going down the shitter and that is why I plan to leave but there is a lot to be proud of in this nation. Having pride in your nation is not a bad thing at all. The argument of Patriotism = Agrression is unfounded. Or are you trying to tell us that people from Canada, Tibet, New Zeland, Sweeden and many other non agressive countries by nature are not patriotic ?

 

[throdgrain]

what are you talking about? The society ECA has talked about has never existed. The closest we have come are places like the UK and scandanavia in recent times and no one has come up and overthrown them with facist patriotism. The USA is nothing like the society ECA mentioned and neither was ancient Greece/Rome or Spain/Aztecs or British Empire and all those got overthrown. So for all we know a tolerant global non-patriotic society is the safest and strongest there is

To be honest you're so stupid I cba to reply any more than this, as you wont understand and will simply make a further arguement out of it.

 

[Guest]

I think this country is a shit hole run by retards who get voted in by spastics.

I like Scotland though, Ireland is also a hell of a lot nicer. Compare Dublin to Birmingham.

i love you


ps

you either trust the Americans to be the world police or you don't, i personally don't.

All the Americans i have met have talked loud and had a holier than thou attitude, and that reminds me of the old saying

"war is gods way of teaching americans geography"

 

[gmloki]

To be honest you're so stupid I cba to reply any more than this, as you wont understand and will simply make a further arguement out of it.

LMAO

 

[Calaen]

I think this country is a shit hole run by retards who get voted in by spastics.

I like Scotland though, Ireland is also a hell of a lot nicer. Compare Dublin to Birmingham.

There are more foreigners in Dublin than Irish

 

[pez]

As for nothing good coming of patriotism; The American Revolution was a patriotic act, and ultimately a very good thing for the world. .

I don't see how you cam to that conclusion

Nelson Mandela is a patriot, Gandhi was a patriot.

Hitler was a patriot, Mussolini was a patriot, Stalin was a patriot, Chairman Mao was a patriot, Pol Pot was a patriot. George Bush is a patriot. Saddam Hussain was a flag waving patriot. go go Genocide!

Or are you trying to tell us that people from Canada, Tibet, New Zeland, Sweeden and many other non agressive countries by nature are not patriotic ?.

i can't comment on Tibet because i know very little about it, (Ruled by China though right so its an odd example) but the other 3 are argueably post-modern states who's citizens care alot less for patriotism than say the US, Iran, North Korea et al. So basically i think it still shows a direct correlation between patriotic citizens and agrressive states.

 

[Maljonic]

I never really thought of myself as patriotic, but having someone call my country a shit-hole kind of makes me feel that way a bit - especially when I compare it to some of the proper shit-holes in the world.

 

[gmloki]

i can't comment on Tibet because i know very little about it, (Ruled by China though right so its an odd example) but the other 3 are argueably post-modern states who's citizens care alot less for patriotism than say the US, Iran, North Korea et al. So basically i think it still shows a direct correlation between patriotic citizens and agrressive states.

I'd try reading a few books first before making rash and ill informed statements. Just a hint.

Tibet is propbably one of the least violent nations at the moment albeit under occupation from the Chinese since the 50's. The government is in exile along with a high percentage of the people of Tibet. They are deeply patriotic about their nation and refuse to recognise Chinese rule albeit from a distance. Yet they are not violent, they do not start wars nor do they suicide bomb. Their protest is peacfull.

Do you know a lot of Canadians and Sweedes to base your comments on ?

Without wishing to be the picker of nits. Hitler certainly was not a Patriot in the truest sense of the word. He was born in Austria and only became a German citizen in 1932, the year before he came to power

 

[DaGaffer]

I don't see how you cam to that conclusion

If you really can't see how American independence was better for the world than if it had remained a continent divided up by autocratic European powers (Britain was the most democratic, but it still wasn't what we would call democracy), then there's really not much point in having this conversation. Democracy is the 'least worst' political system.

Hitler was a patriot, Mussolini was a patriot, Stalin was a patriot, Chairman Mao was a patriot, Pol Pot was a patriot. George Bush is a patriot. Saddam Hussain was a flag waving patriot. go go Genocide!

What did I say? I didn't deny patriotism couldn't be used for evil purposes, I just pointed out its not black and white and can be used for good as well. Did you actually read my post or is it just 'spout platitudes' day?

i can't comment on Tibet because i know very little about it, (Ruled by China though right so its an odd example) but the other 3 are argueably post-modern states who's citizens care alot less for patriotism than say the US, Iran, North Korea et al. So basically i think it still shows a direct correlation between patriotic citizens and agrressive states.

You're incorrect. From personal experience, Canadians are just as flag-wavingly patriotic as Americans. As for Tibet, the Tibetans are fiercly patriotic and use their patriotism as a defence against their aborbsion into China; its actually a very good example of patriotism as a positive force.

 

[Tom]

Hitler was a patriot, Mussolini was a patriot, Stalin was a patriot, Chairman Mao was a patriot, Pol Pot was a patriot. George Bush is a patriot. Saddam Hussain was a flag waving patriot. go go Genocide!

They were also power seeking loonies. But then again, in your world, to be a patriot requires that you be a power seeking loony.

I bet you have grey toilet paper so as not to offend minority groups.

 

[pez]

i pointed out those leaders as being aggressive examples of patriots to contrast with the non-aggressive leaders already pointed out, nothing more nothing less, stop getting so excited.

As for tibet, good for them, theres always exceptions.


i stand by my point there is a direct correlation between patriotic states and aggressive actions on the world stage. No one has said anything to me which suggests otherwise.

 

[Trem]

I never really thought of myself as patriotic, but having someone call my country a shit-hole kind of makes me feel that way a bit - especially when I compare it to some of the proper shit-holes in the world.

Luckily this shit hole allows me to express my own views

 

[Tom]

i stand by my point there is a direct correlation between patriotic states and aggressive actions on the world stage. No one has said anything to me which suggests otherwise.

Its no coincidence I suppose that none of the 'patriotic states' or people you've mentioned are democracies attacking other democracies?

Could it be perhaps because your argument its flawed?

Some people like guns, does that mean that all gun use is bad? Or is it just a minority of fuckwits that spoil the broth?

 

[DaGaffer]

i pointed out those leaders as being aggressive examples of patriots to contrast with the non-aggressive leaders already pointed out, nothing more nothing less, stop getting so excited.

As for tibet, good for them, theres always exceptions.


i stand by my point there is a direct correlation between patriotic states and aggressive actions on the world stage. No one has said anything to me which suggests otherwise.

People have said loads of stuff that suggests otherwise, you just refuse to consider it. You don't get off the hook that easily. I'll say it again, patriotism is a symptom not a cause. And like I said before, what would you replace the nation state (the source of patriotism) with?

 

[ECA]

Its no coincidence I suppose that none of the 'patriotic states' or people you've mentioned are democracies attacking other democracies?

Could it be perhaps because your argument its flawed?

Some people like guns, does that mean that all gun use is bad? Or is it just a minority of fuckwits that spoil the broth?

Germany was democratic when it elected Hitler.
Your turtle fails.

 

[DaGaffer]

Germany was democratic when it elected Hitler.
Your turtle fails.

The Germans didn't elect Hitler as Chancellor though; he was invited in by the other parties as part of a coalition and then he took over and changed the rules. So 'democratic' Germany never went to war with anyone. Tom's argument stands

 

[ECA]

The Germans didn't elect Hitler as Chancellor though; he was invited in by the other parties as part of a coalition and then he took over and changed the rules. So 'democratic' Germany never went to war with anyone. Tom's argument stands

His changes to the rules were legal though and as a democratic representative that makes it democratic.

Your turtle fails.

 

[DaGaffer]

His changes to the rules were legal though and as a democratic representative that makes it democratic.

Your turtle fails.

Nah, since there was no opportunity for the populace to kick him out (not that I think they would have), Germany wasn't democratic when it started attacking people. There are plenty of examples of Dictators taking over democracies (look at South America) doesn't mean they remained democracies once taken over. What the hell's all this turtle stuff anyway?