Why do people dislike America/Americans ?

gmloki

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
634
I have no issues with America or Americans in general. However I have wintessed a growing trend to Anti- America etc witht he common sterotype of them being self centred and concerned with social status. All the topic of conversation is how much money they earn and what car they drive. If you want to rub shoulders with self centred people concerned with personal wealth, Self Centred and constant ego massaging you need look no further than the streets of the Heart of London, Manchester, Birmingham or any other major city for that matter. America is not alone nor exclsuive in those stakes

We have alot to learn from how the Americans promote their national identity and patriotism. You only have to look at the pitifull display of what is St Georges day is over here. That is supposed to be a day to celebrate everything that it is to be English. It's culture, heritage, it's History and everything that is positive about being English. Yet the debates on radio yesterday were all about why don't we celebrate ? Are we scared to because of some of the negative aspect of our days of the Empire ? Is it because of the immigration problem and we do not wish to upset minority groups ??? Would the Americans be having the same debate ?? I doubt it They are sure of their national identity and what it means to be American. The closest comparison I can think of is Independence Day and how they demonstrate pride in their nation.

You can see the problems this summers world cup will bring as the Ultra PC MOB will find yet more ways to stop people having St Georges flags in their car this year yet in America people are openly encouraged to be patriotic

You can argue that they are ultra competitive and everything is about winning. Give me that any day over the UK that stops having school sports days just in case we annoy or upset some group and we shouldn't be too competitve now should we Give me a nation that says im concerned about our jobs first and foremost before anyone else and I can say I pretty much disagree with everything sedm100 has raised

My experience of America and Americans through Family, Friends and Holidays is positive. I have made manya good friend through online gaming state side. Whilst not a long lost brothers or anything and our clans have gone seperate ways we speak regurlarly and consider ourselves friends. Although I do agree since 9/11 their does seem to have been a change in the national psyche. Maybe their feeling of indestructability changed on that day
 

Tom

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
17,178
The Americans are the big powerful country with a military empire. They have an outpost in practically every major country in the world.

In short, they're the focus of hatred because they're powerful. They're no different to any other empire throughout history, and it will be the same for whoever takes the mantle in the near future, most likely China.
 

DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
18,397
People around the world don't like America because they're the most powerful and the richest nation on Earth. Unfortunately, they're also overtly proud of the fact and genuinely can't understand why people would want to be anything other than American. This is the heart of the matter because on the whole the American public genuinely believe that their foreign policy is ultimately benign.

The reality is the Americans are no worse than we were when Britain was top dog; we too bought into the belief that our actions were ultimately beneficial to the people we ruled. In a lot of cases this was true of course. What's scary is that the Americans seem quite happy to repeat a lot of Britain's mistakes...

As for the St.Georges Day thing, outside of sport the English traditionally haven't 'done' English patriotism since the Act of Union. We did British patriotism because it was in English interests to do so (its also why we paid off Scotland's debts), so we're not really used to English patriotism.
 

ECA

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
9,439
Vietnam, Bay of Pigs, Coldwar, Korea, Japan ( don't give me that "nuclear bombs saved lives" crap - go read memoirs of presidential aides written by those around at the time ), iran, iraq, guantanamo bay, Kyoto, George Bush, The US political system ( or lack of it - lobbyists and advertising dollars win elections in the US most of the time ).

Look at the way the US treated the UN - total disrespect for international institutions.

Hypocrisy over illicitly developed nuclear weapons - why is Isreal treated so differently from Iran and Iraq?

Fat people, Mcdonalds, etc.

Hypocrisy over terrorism, the solution is creating economic prosperity and education - not bombs and guns.

25% of the worlds pollution, etc etc.

I don't know, why do people dislike America?
 

throdgrain

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
7,197
I like America, and I like thier foreign policy too. I might even go live there one day.
 

DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
18,397
ECA said:
Vietnam, Bay of Pigs, Coldwar, Korea, Japan ( don't give me that "nuclear bombs saved lives" crap - go read memoirs of presidential aides written by those around at the time ), iran, iraq, guantanamo bay, Kyoto, George Bush, The US political system ( or lack of it - lobbyists and advertising dollars win elections in the US most of the time ).

Look at the way the US treated the UN - total disrespect for international institutions.

Hypocrisy over illicitly developed nuclear weapons - why is Isreal treated so differently from Iran and Iraq?

Fat people, Mcdonalds, etc.

Hypocrisy over terrorism, the solution is creating economic prosperity and education - not bombs and guns.

25% of the worlds pollution, etc etc.

I don't know, why do people dislike America?

I could substitute a French or British historical event for all of those; Suez, Mau Mau, Algeria, VIETNAM, but we're not hated as much because we're not no.1. As for the Nuke thing, it will always be open to debate, but the Americans lost 100,000 men on Okinawa, and civilians died to the last man. As for the Cold War, sorry but it takes two to tango.

As for different standards between Israel and Iran/Iraq; the Israelis developed their nukes before the non-proliferation treaties, and last time I looked Isreal had never publicly threatened its neighbours with extermination on a daily basis. (yes its a double standard, but its also realpolitik).

The hypocrisy over terrorism is a valid point, but at the same time, prosperity and education can't be created in a vacuum; most of the countries of the middle east that are economic basket cases are so for lots more reasons than the Americans, and sometimes it would be nice if they looked at themselves rather than blaming America all the time.

Fat people? You hate people because they're fat? It says more about you than them tbh.

25% of the World's pollution - they're actually 25% of the world's CO2, which isn't quite the same thing; if you want to look at the real polluters you have to look to the east, and even on CO2, you ain't seen nothing yet. If the Americans ratified Kyoto tomorrow it wouldn't matter because of China and India (this is a separate debate I'm happy to have).

Bottom line is I can look at lots of countries, both today and in the past, and give a list of reasons why they're awful places, but its pointless, because all the world's hatred of America can be distilled into their status as Top Dog.
 

gmloki

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
634
ECA said:
Vietnam, Bay of Pigs, Coldwar, Korea, Japan ( don't give me that "nuclear bombs saved lives" crap - go read memoirs of presidential aides written by those around at the time ), iran, iraq, guantanamo bay, Kyoto, George Bush, The US political system ( or lack of it - lobbyists and advertising dollars win elections in the US most of the time ).

Look at the way the US treated the UN - total disrespect for international institutions.

Hypocrisy over illicitly developed nuclear weapons - why is Isreal treated so differently from Iran and Iraq?

Fat people, Mcdonalds, etc.

Hypocrisy over terrorism, the solution is creating economic prosperity and education - not bombs and guns.

25% of the worlds pollution, etc etc.

I don't know, why do people dislike America?

Most of that is no different than any other industrialised nation though

Vietnam, Bay of Pigs and the cold war all intrinsically linked. Vietnam being the mess that was left over from French colonialism in the 1800's

Britain et al has a long history of doing dirty deeds behind closed doors for it's own benefit
 

UrganNagru

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
186
While America has done a few things in recent years I don't agree with, I have to disagree with most of the statements, atleast if I'm not going to be a hypocrite.

"Look at the way the US treated the UN - total disrespect for international institutions."
Well, if your getting at America for ignoring the UN's resolution on Iraq, guess whose over there with them?

"Hypocrisy over illicitly developed nuclear weapons - why is Isreal treated so differently from Iran and Iraq?"
All though it's my personal opinion that the Palestinians have been given the shitty end of the stick (although I admitt I find the wholr state of affirds over there confusing), you can't really compare Israel to Iran where religion has such a strong influence on politics, and Iraq which had a history of genocide and agression with its neighbouring countries.

"Fat people, Mcdonalds, etc."
Walked down your local high street recently? You'll probaly see both of these. Blaming both of these on America is pretty foolish when one is an idependant corporation and the other as result of personal habit.

"Hypocrisy over terrorism, the solution is creating economic prosperity and education - not bombs and guns."
Can't really argue with you there as its of my opinion Sadam was pretty effective of controlling those types, and that the invaision of Iraq has just stirred up more anger in the region, though one advantage for us is that theyre concentrating on blowing each over up over there than us over here, not so lucky for your average Iraqi. However neither do I think its Americas responsibility to single handedly develope every country in the world and nor do I think it possible. After all Britain tried a pretty similar thing for a couple of centuarys and we seem to be apologising ever since.

"25% of the worlds pollution, etc etc."
My statistics are probaly slightly out here but the world has a population of around 6 billion, America a population of around 250 million, that comes to around 4% by my reconning.

Hmm well that was a bit of a rant, I'm sorry if you were just trying to put it from a general perspective, but I just felt if that was your personal thoughts on the matter I should add my 2 pence (or should that be cents).
 

Draylor

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,591
Whats with the Random words being Capitalised in the Original post?
 

xane

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,695
ECA said:
Look at the way the US treated the UN - total disrespect for international institutions.

That would be the UN that puts Sudan and Zimbabwe on its Human Rights Commission, after Syria and Libya got on it ?

Then there is the Oil-for-Food fraud and the Congo Sexual Abuse scandals, not to mention the complete buck passing exercise over Iran and its nukes.

I think the USA can hardly be blamed for disrespecting it, especially seeing as it practically bankrolls the whole sorry show.

The USA may well have it's own scandals, but ultimately power rests in the people and they will vote out any bad government, no such ability exists in the UN, once the corruption sets in, you've got it for life.

I can well forsee the USA leaving the UN and setting up a rival UN-for-Democracies-only, IMO that would be a massive leap forward from what we have today, and with the democratically controlled military power it would have, it would start kicking-ass on those bastards in places like Darfur.
 

DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
18,397
xane said:
I can well forsee the USA leaving the UN and setting up a rival UN-for-Democracies-only, IMO that would be a massive leap forward from what we have today, and with the democratically controlled military power it would have, it would start kicking-ass on those bastards in places like Darfur.

That would be fun to watch; "EU countries? No, you can't join, the Commission is undemocratic. Japan? Well your version of democracy is a bit of a cheat isn't it? Britain? Are you kidding? The House of Lords? Next!" It could be a small club.
 

gmloki

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
634
Draylor said:
Whats with the Random words being Capitalised in the Original post?

NoT Too Sure but I jusT noticed it Myself
 

Damini

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,234
http://www.newamericancentury.org/

I read this, and thought it was really good satire.

Then I read it again, and I'm fairly convinced it's real.

Read the Statement of Principle, and check out the names undersigned...

I dislike a lot of american politics and policies, but I love America and most americans, so consider me fence girl.
 

Will

/bin/su
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Messages
5,259
I don't dislike most Americans. I do dislike the neoconservatives, and I'm not a big fan of the way the American political system works.* I'm also not a great fan of the cultural and economic hegemony the US imposes on the rest of the world. Maybe if US corporations weren't technically people in the eyes of the law, with all the rights that entails, and the US system didn't allow lobby groups to have such a strong voice on Capitol Hill, things might be different.

Like any country, it has its good points and its bad points. But as the worlds only superpower, its problems seem to also be our problems.

*This doesn't mean I'm that big a fan of our system either.
 

DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
18,397
Damini said:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/

I read this, and thought it was really good satire.

Then I read it again, and I'm fairly convinced it's real.

Read the Statement of Principle, and check out the names undersigned...

I dislike a lot of american politics and policies, but I love America and most americans, so consider me fence girl.


Oh yeah, that's real. Of course a lot of those original signatories are deserting the cause right now...
 

Milkshake

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
496
I like Americans, I often play on servers over the other side of the pond rather than the ones in the UK, even though I get worse pings.
I've joined a pre-dominantly US clan where I actually have to contribute money to be in it, and do, because they are all awesome people.

That doesn't mean I'm a massive fan of what the political scene over there is all about. Voting in Bush again was a bit silly, but it's a bit like Tony Blair over here...the place where I live isn't falling apart and there's no other bugger that has me convinced, so I may as well continue with the status quo.

I often think that they could do alot better with the resources they control, but until China or Russia *really* get their arses in gear they have no competition, so can relax.

In the British Military, we give them a bit of a hard time, but really the outlook these days is if you want to do anything serious, you might wanna keep the US on side. We're off to Afghanistan soon, (not me personally :p ) but don't think for a second that we don't have all sorts of US units backing us up and helping out, all the way from frontline stuff, to resources.

If there's a country in the world I'd want to be allied with, it's the USA.
 

tris-

Failed Geordie and Parmothief
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
15,260
every american i ever talked to has been a twat.

so living in the society we do, i simply stereotyped them all.
just like everyone does about everything.
 

Trem

Not as old as he claims to be!
Moderator
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,293
America makes pretty much all of the porn thats around.

I win, my argument beats all others.
 

Kryten

Old Cow.
Moderator
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
3,351
ehehehehe....

1. Low average IQ. Normally those with a higher level of intelligence suffer with lower common sense, which in my opinion is probably more useful. Americans, generally, have a low average IQ and bugger all common sense.

2. Americanism. "Fat people, macdonalds etc" - Rather than "look down your local high street" type answers : it's because the UK is quickly being americanised - in government, ideals and people's attitudes. I agree with previous statements that the UK isn't much better : and it's for this exact reason. Things like "This product may contain nuts" on your packet of KP and "Please do not use this product whilst in the shower" on your hairdryer. If it wasn't for stupid americans actually complaining about these and sueing the fuck out of people because of it, we'd not be having to put up "WARNING - HOT" signs on your cup of what is hopefully, hot coffee.

3. Many people will look at petrol prices in the US and think "It must be cheap to live there". It isn't. It IS a little bit cheaper than here, however the money you save on petrol is soon lost on some other god awful stealth tax.

4. George Bush - Enough said. I was happy with Billy Clinton, he was a normal bloke, he had moments of intelligence and was ruined by people thinking their president should be perfect, robotic maybe. Then they voted for Bush. :wanker:

5. Southern accents. Yes, we have people from Dudley here - when they open their mouths, they sound like they've just finished reading "Roger Red Hat" or "Mr Men" - but over there they sound even worse - and to top it off, they're all inbred, shagging their mothers so in 12 years they have someone else to help out on the farm.
Actually, that's not too different from some places here.

6. Cars etc - over there, the average cheap-to-run car is a 3 litre V6. If you want a sporty car, you'll fork out a small fortune on a 6 litre V8 - and it will still get outrun by a 1.8 litre Ford Mondeo from here. Yes, they're getting smaller but not by much - people think their pride will get hurt too much.
And I wish they'd keep hold of their shit like Chevrolets and Chryslers rather than fobbing them off in the UK now :(

7. Oooh forgot this one : American TV. Yeah some movies are good. Comedy : do they have a sense of humour? Every now and then a cracker comes along that we can raise a laugh at. Otherwise we're having to put up with shit like Friends, Frasier and Will n Grace. Fuck sake : Simpsons is getting very similar, unfortunately. South park was a laugh before the novelty wore off after the first season. Jim Carrey can only wiggle his arms around manically for so long before the next film is identical to the last one.

8. American Football.

All in all, the UK is quickly turning into the US and there's very little we can do about it.
Americans, generally, fucking suck.
America, generally, fucking sucks.
Or more to the point : most of the world, fucking sucks.


Slight twist for those that didn't know.
I'm American.
 

Trem

Not as old as he claims to be!
Moderator
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,293
nath said:
Eastern european porn is much better.

If you like hairy women it is.

You like hairy women don't you?



I bloody knew it :eek:
 

nath

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
8,009
We must be watching some very different porn...
 

Trem

Not as old as he claims to be!
Moderator
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,293
nath said:
We must be watching some very different porn...

Actually the nicest bird in a porn I have ever seen was from Prague, I know this because she was talking directly to me via the screen.

Oh man she was awesome.

In your porn do the women have to lift their balls up so the man can enter them?
 

Trem

Not as old as he claims to be!
Moderator
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,293
Kryten said:
Swiss amatuer stuff rocks.

Link?

Nice post btw Kryten.

It does annoy me the size of the cars the Americans *have* to drive, and apparently our price rise on petrol this week is due to higher demand from........America.

I think Canada is the correct America, the way America could of been.

I also dislike the idea that Americans don't have fist fights, over here its a couple of punches and thats the end of it, in America its a cap in yo ass if you fall out with anyone......in my head it is anyways.
 

Kryten

Old Cow.
Moderator
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
3,351
Didn't think of it like that, Trem. I think the English have always been the nation of gentlemen - how long for though, I don't know. We have sports like Rugby - five times harder than American Puffball, people are getting seven shades of shit knocked out of them and theres still no hard feelings : real sportsmanship. Then games like Snooker - very few other sports have such a feeling of gentlemanly respect. The same applies to boxing over here - at least most of our boxers don't need to bite bits off you to win.

The way gun crime is increasing here though, I imagine the same will soon apply here - including the dodgy gangster-rap inspired language. Muddafukka, etc.

Oh btw : no, I got a batch of said swiss goody from what P2P used to be back in the day - all my porn has long been deleted due to moving in with the mrs ;)
 

Trem

Not as old as he claims to be!
Moderator
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,293
I do like how hard rugby players have to be. Then they all get in a bath with each other afterwards(eastern european porn?).

I have a couple of Americans who come in the shop where I work and they both look like the lead singer from Weezer, nice guys though, they do pout lots it seems.

Settling an argument with a gun is so fucking gay.
 

Moo

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,106
It's not because they're powerful, it's because they're imperialistic, corrupt and arrogant.
 

rynnor

Rockhound
Moderator
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
9,353
Moo said:
It's not because they're powerful, it's because they're imperialistic, corrupt and arrogant.

Aye - they resemble the British empire but unluckily for them time has moved on and the people of the world no longer tolerate imperialism (if they ever did) and now have some effective weapons against them i.e. terrorism.

The worst thing about the US is its foreign policy - I have no problem with the US people they dont have 2 heads but the government still has its head up its arse. Their attempts at achieving peace have only increased tensions in the middle east/south america/afghanistan/North Korea - they seem to have no idea about how people outside the US think...
 

dysfunction

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
9,709
I like America and Americans.

I have thoroughly enjoyed my holidays there and the people I have met there have been really pleasant.

most people base their dislikes on the tourists they have met and politicians...which gives you a nice broad view of them :rolleyes:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom