Whos next?

[Hawkwind]

They need to totally rethink city center shopping.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/13/mary-portas-rescue-dying-high-streets

Out of town Supermarkets and Discount Warehouse shops killed them. That and the internet. It's been coming for years and why it surprises people now is totally beyond my comprehension. The article above which I read some time ago seems highlight the issues. From what I have seen there are many issues but they can be turned around.

IMHO they need to rethink City Centers, making them family orientated entertainment areas with shopping as well. This has worked well in towns like Basingstoke, Guildford, Kingston On Thames and Reading. Creating covered malls from what was the old style city centers. Restaurants and bars galore with cinema and theater. One of the biggest killers is the rents charged by landlords, usually big insurance companies these days. That needs to be controlled somehow. In many cases they have been solely responsible for some stores closing. Bring back the small interesting specialist shops like Cheese Shops, Organic Veg, Wines, proper butchers, bakers....

One of my favourite food shops in the UK is a cheese shop in Alresford, Hampshire. I have to visit it every time I'm back there. Amazing variety of cheeses and always something new to try. Doesn't hurt that there is a great food pub just down the road from it called the Mayfly

 

[MYstIC G]

You can't control rents in that manner or you'll never get any investment. Why the fuck would buy a £1million retail building if they knew they could only get £5,000.00 a year rental?

Parking control killed off high streets in any event. I can't be bothered using any of the ones near me simply because that £20 item I could get from the local electrical store will likely land me a £60 parking fine if my tyre slightly touches a kerb stone.

I think the real underlying issue in a lot of these things is that they negotiate stupid deals when times are good that cripple them when times are bad, you don't need 100's of stores everywhere you need profitable stores.

 

[DaGaffer]

In Ireland you still have this incredible situation, written into law, that commercial rents can only go up, not down. Its fucking insane (and shows how the now-pariah property developers had the politicians completely in their back pocket to allow such legislation to be enacted).

 

[Tom]

Why would I visit a town centre? They're invariably filled with the same shops selling the same things. It's only the distant places that hold any interest - look on Google Streetview at Peebles, for instance.

 

[rynnor]

In Ireland you still have this incredible situation, written into law, that commercial rents can only go up, not down.

Thats amazing!!! When did that come in?

 

[DaGaffer]

Thats amazing!!! When did that come in?

Dunno, but its been around for ages. They're trying to abolish it completely but vested interests are holding up the legislation (claiming its a constitutional issue - which sounds like bollocks to me, although I'm no expert on the Irish constitution). The upshot is that despite property values falling in half since 2007 in the residential sector, Ireland still has the highest commercial rents in Europe. Typically in the UK the average retailer spends about 12% of turnover on rents, in eastern Europe maybe 8-9%; here its about 20%.

 

[Raven]

With regards to shopping in towns. I got dragged to town the other week because my wife wanted to go to O2 to get a new phone. It was a dreadful experience. Full of chavs with nothing better to do. I haven't bought anything from a highstreet shop for a couple of years now, I didn't realise it had got so bad (or maybe it's always been that bad?!)

Crappy, filthy shops, badly set out, over priced, not enough choice, moronic staff. The high-street chain is doomed. The M&S food hall was ok though.

 

[Wij]

My wife still drags us into Halifax once a week or so. What a waste of a day

 

[rynnor]

High streets are doomed - so are the commercial property investors since no-ones going to rent a dead high street property for very much if at all.

Out of town retail developments are far superior.

 

[DaGaffer]

Out of town retail developments are far superior.

For purposes of convienience, I'd agree. But that's more to do with the fact that most UK town centres were effectively trashed by terrible planning decisions from the sixties onwards, and the chains have too much power*. There's no intrinsic reason why town centres shouldn't be a more pleasant shopping environment than a retail park (which, lets be honest, are totally boring but redeemed by acres of free parking), and I'd much prefer a shopping experience that offered me the odd bit of individuality rather than boring retail chains that I can get anywhere. As mentioned, even where you still have a nice town centre, parking is usually the main problem, but it strikes me that a clever Chamber of Commerce could introduce things like a town-centre pick, pack and deliver service for all their members (giving them a home delivery solution so you can leave the car); try to develop a balanced retail mix the way a mall would by offering short-term rates discounts for preferred suppliers, incentivise entertainment, particularly for kids (I'd kill for a town centre soft-play centre for kids in Dublin, but they're all out on the ring road because they can't sustain the rents in town); there's a shitload you could do, but there's a lack of will and commercial nous to do it in most places.

In the long-term, environmental planning may swing the model away from retail parks anyway, but it'll take more than Mary Portas to turn around town centres in the short-term.

*French town centres have survived because of laws that stop retail giants like Carrefour from wrecking general retail through constant loss-leader promotions (its effectively illegal to sell below cost). Carrefour get around it in all kinds of creative ways, but its worked to the extent that the average French town centre is way more pleasant, with a broader variety of shops, than its British equivalent.

 

[Tom]

My wife still drags us into Halifax once a week or so. What a waste of a day

Go to Hebden Bridge instead, very pretty place. I'd like to move there (or Todmorden).

 

[Raven]

You can dress it up all you like. With the internet and supermarkets that sell pretty much anything, there is no point to pokey little chain shops in shopping centres (or high streets) It's not like you can ever find anything you want, or if you do you have to traipse round for hours on end. An utter waste of everyone's time.

 

[rynnor]

You can dress it up all you like. With the internet and supermarkets that sell pretty much anything, there is no point to pokey little chain shops in shopping centres (or high streets) It's not like you can ever find anything you want, or if you do you have to traipse round for hours on end. An utter waste of everyone's time.

Absolutely and relative to income food has become much more affordable and generally of a higher quality than it was back then. Seperate greengrocers/butchers/bakers etc. means 3 seperate rents/wages etc. to find and no economies of scale when they bought their stock.

I still remember my mum spending half her day traipsing round to the various shops...

Supermarkets are sucessful because they are what we want - high streets are dead because they are obsolete.

 

[DaGaffer]

You can dress it up all you like. With the internet and supermarkets that sell pretty much anything, there is no point to pokey little chain shops in shopping centres (or high streets) It's not like you can ever find anything you want, or if you do you have to traipse round for hours on end. An utter waste of everyone's time.

Spoken like a true bloke (goal-directed shopping behaviour). 50% of the population would disagree with you. Also technology can solve the "traipse around" problem: applications like Shoppo are coming that offer search results for physical products (e.g. "find my nearest Calvin Klein Jeans in stock")

 

[MYstIC G]

Also Rynnor forgets things like shopping for gifts. I don't find looking at stuff on Amazon particularly inspirational myself.

 

[rynnor]

Spoken like a true bloke (goal-directed shopping behaviour). 50% of the population would disagree with you. Also technology can solve the "traipse around" problem: applications like Shoppo are coming that offer search results for physical products (e.g. "find my nearest Calvin Klein Jeans in stock")

My Mrs prefers doing her clothes shopping either by catalogue/internet or at the large retail developments with a big Next etc so no I dont think all women like the high street.

 

[rynnor]

Also Rynnor forgets things like shopping for gifts. I don't find looking at stuff on Amazon particularly inspirational myself.

Each to their own but the reality is that most people are choosing to shop elsewhere.

 

[MYstIC G]

Not really mate, a percentage of people (i'd say realistically a third) are choosing to shop for certain items elsewhere.

I'll freely admit that I've no interest in buying video games from GAME, etc. anymore because they don't compete well on price and on the occasions that I have done so I've had cause to stop them in their tracks for trying to sell me an unsealed product.

That said on the flip side I won't be buying clothes or shoes from a catalogue anytime this side of ever.

 

[rynnor]

That said on the flip side I won't be buying clothes or shoes from a catalogue anytime this side of ever.

Its handy for kids stuff - we wasted a couple of hours going around the sports shops looking for childrens size 9 football boots for astroturf the other day but had to resort to the internet in the end.

 

[Job]

The market will decide, central and local shopping is dear to many hearts, so there is an opportunity there, if only down the nostalgia/retro route.
The rents will HAVE to fall and new ways of doing things will rise out of the ashes, how many little shops do you see that are actually converted houses, so it can pick up again, people will bore of the soulless retail park.

 

[Wij]

Women eh. Tsk. Bloody traipse round shops? I ask you.

Gays too. Tsk.

 

[sayward]

GAME has decided to layoff around 46 people at its Support Centre (not called Head Office anymore) today. I am one of them.

To be honest, I view it as a kick up the arse to finally move onto something different, better and more challenging after 11 years of shaping the infrastructure.

What can I say? What I would like to say and have said many times is unprintable.

 

[Tom]

You can dress it up all you like. With the internet and supermarkets that sell pretty much anything, there is no point to pokey little chain shops in shopping centres (or high streets) It's not like you can ever find anything you want, or if you do you have to traipse round for hours on end. An utter waste of everyone's time.

Actually, that isn't correct. In the afore-mentioned Todmorden, this place exists:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=tod...nnuZxWJrIKhc3camPwdiFg&cbp=12,120.22,,0,-1.04

Downstairs it's one of those lentil-eating vegan places that sells all kinds of fantastic stuff that you'd never find in a supermarket - including locally-made goods. Upstairs is one of the most awesome little cafes I've ever had the pleasure of visiting. The food is just wonderful.

Little shops like this are treasure troves.

 

[Raven]

Aye, they are. But they don't need a town to exist, there are plenty out of town. They just happen to catch shoppers. Take the shops away and there is little point in it being on the high street. Plus ofc, that is a small market town. Not a town centre designed for shopping.

 

[Ch3tan]

Chet,

I am looking upon this as a good thing, I have several months worth of wedge to find a job where I am challenged and pushed. I might even contract, my Company is setup (albiet without a Business bank account at the mo). If I am being completely honest, the thought that seems to cross my mind, and has done for the last few months is "Titanic". If not that there has to be a major restructure in the Company, in my personal opinion the rot started years ago when we were told that there was no future in online (read around the same time that GAME Digital did drastic things).

Do the contracting thing, I know lots of people that do and make very good money. You've got the skill set and the experience. A few months of silly money, a few months off, rinse + repeat.

 

[Wij]

Come and contract with me in Yorkshire. We have elexticity and compters for over 5 years now.

 

[russell]

RIP highstreet. I dont enjoy high street browsing, I go for specific shops sometimes like Fatface and Cath Kidson, as long as there is a Starbucks opportunity. Buy far more online now.
Shame, I used to work for a high street retailer and really enjoyed it. I agree about more little specialist shops, like the cheese shop in Arlesford, my favourite shop in Bluewater was a little globe shop - gone now. Good luck Deebs, you could do something totally different?

 

[mycenae]

I've ALWAYS hated traipsing round shops, irregardless of what for, so the rise of internet shopping has been an utter godsend for me. The only reason we don't do our food shop on the net regularly is that I like to pick my own fresh produce and also to have a look at whats on offer.....and I can't bear it when you order something and either choose not to 'substitute' in which case half your shopping doesn't turn up, or let them substitute and something completely the opposite to what you wanted turns up!

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Considering how even the most successful clothes sites such as Asos are completely incapable of sending what you actually order, clothes shopping is often required in person. Annoyingly.

 

[Wij]

Food shopping is crap online as the prices vary so much to accommodate 'offers' that you are liable to get ripped off. Supermarket pricing is a fucking joke now.