Which realm is overpowered n why

[- Pathfinder -]

Mez and Hib XP don't go together PBAE all the way ^^

 

[Pixie.Pebr]

Originally posted by - Pathfinder -
Mez and Hib XP don't go together PBAE all the way ^^

They should be sent on trainingcamp by the Tanglers, no PBAE allowed

 

[j000 d000d]

Enchanter already had some nerfs btw, theyre not documented.

-Debuff reduced to 15 sec.
-Debuff added to Energy resist type. It had no resist type before.
-In 1.53 the chance of resisting spells depends on the spell level. So debuff and stun will be resisted even more.
-Heat resist affecting stun, stun can become like 4 sec.

There's more, but ive had lots of "minor nerfs".

 

[old.Patrick-S]

Originally posted by old.Teador
Encha
-In 1.53 the chance of resisting spells depends on the spell level. So debuff and stun will be resisted even more.

that mean nightshade spells have like .0000001 chance of lending as unspeccable? lol

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by Pixie.Pebr
Can't be arsed to read through it all, since it has been discussed a gazillion times before, but...

There is no "overpowered realm" or "overpowered class".
It is a teamplay game, any "flaws" in one class is made up for by grouping with another class and supporting each other.
There is a reason we have an Invitebutton and 8 slots to form a group

DAoC is not and never will be a single-player shoot-em up.

alb needs 12 slots. Than it would be more fair game.

 

[krait]

Originally posted by old.Sko


alb needs 12 slots. Than it would be more fair game.

Aye... Alb classes are too diluted.
:/

 

[old.Patrick-S]

how so? group could be a paladin, an armsmen, a mercanary, a wizard, a sorceror, an infiltrator, a cleric and a minstrel don't see how that would be much worse than other realms potential groups.. hib could be a champ, a hero, a blademaster, an eldritch, a mentalist, a nightshade, a druid, and a bard fail to see how alb would be worse off

 

[krait]

A hibby group without a warden or an enchanter.........please

 

[old.Patrick-S]

therefore implying that hibs actually need more classes in a group

 

[old.Sko]

/em waits patiently.

I believe in a couple of patches (As i hope goa will patch up to 1.54 and continue with something like 1.60) albs will suddently become tactically superior. And sure it will have nothing to do with changes in the code
But so far hibs can enjoy easy setting for the game

 

[old.Atrox]

3 very important things for an RvR Group:
1. AECC
2. Speed ( not the drug )
3. Healing

So how many places does it take to meet these needs ?
Hib: 1 (Bard)
Mid: 2 (Healer and skald)
Alb: 3 (Sorc, Minstrel and Cleric)

Good or bad ?

on a side note, about the aeCC, Healers get 2 aeCC versions in their Pac line, Bards get 2 aeCC versions in there Music line, Sorcs get 1 aeCC in their Mind line and 1 aeCC in their Body Line.
oh and Healer and Bards single target Baseline Mezz are 2.5 base cast speed while Sorcs are 3.0......

I feel so unloved

 

[klavrynd]

you forgot that healers get speed in their aug line ~~

 

[old.Atrox]

Originally posted by klavrynd
you forgot that healers get speed in their aug line ~~

I meant mach5
gimp speed doesnt count.

 

[<Wels>]

Originally posted by old.Teador
Enchanter already had some nerfs btw, theyre not documented.

-Heat resist affecting stun, stun can become like 4 sec.

There's more, but ive had lots of "minor nerfs".

Oh yeah i can see how that effects mana chanters with 50% heat debuff

 

[plutaris]

Imo it comes down to which realm is the most organized.

It feels atm that the hibs are very well organized, aswell as the mids.. compared to the albs.

Hibs from my experience are a very well played realm and seem to always know wot they are doin in rvr etc; and the mids seem to have alot of tatics up there sleeves aswell as the shere numbers often.

The albs are capable of beating any1, but they are not always swtiched on and organized


At the end of the day i say we are all equal just depends who is representing which realm on the day, who sticks together and works as a team and how well they are led

Maybe that is stating the obvious but. hehe

 

[svar]

Originally posted by old.Atrox
3 very important things for an RvR Group:
1. AECC
2. Speed ( not the drug )
3. Healing

So how many places does it take to meet these needs ?
Hib: 1 (Bard)
Mid: 2 (Healer and skald)
Alb: 3 (Sorc, Minstrel and Cleric)

Good or bad ?

on a side note, about the aeCC, Healers get 2 aeCC versions in their Pac line, Bards get 2 aeCC versions in there Music line, Sorcs get 1 aeCC in their Mind line and 1 aeCC in their Body Line.
oh and Healer and Bards single target Baseline Mezz are 2.5 base cast speed while Sorcs are 3.0......

I feel so unloved

Lol comments like this really crack me up. When you think a person actually knows what they are talking about they come up with this. Well dear Atrox, Xorta or whatever, why dont you visit our beloved daoc.catacombs.com and try to create a bard which would suffice for all the best songs, nice group and single heals (although we all know that instas are what matter in rvr, but lets leave that for a time) AND nice insta AOE mezzes. Surely, you will soon found out that all those things are SPREAD over ->3<- speccing lines and that bards do NOT get enough points to raise them all to decent levels...

I mean, healers would be uber too if they could spec all their lines to top, so would druids and clerics and sorcerers and whoever, but guess what, in this game we get limited ammount of spec points and you have to make some choices while you are building your character.

Sigh

 

[old.Atrox]

Originally posted by svar


Lol comments like this really crack me up. When you think a person actually knows what they are talking about they come up with this. Well dear Atrox, Xorta or whatever, why dont you visit our beloved daoc.catacombs.com and try to create a bard which would suffice for all the best songs, nice group and single heals (although we all know that instas are what matter in rvr, but lets leave that for a time) AND nice insta AOE mezzes. Surely, you will soon found out that all those things are SPREAD over ->3<- speccing lines and that bards do NOT get enough points to raise them all to decent levels...

I mean, healers would be uber too if they could spec all their lines to top, so would druids and clerics and sorcerers and whoever, but guess what, in this game we get limited ammount of spec points and you have to make some choices while you are building your character.

Sigh

FYI Instant heals arent all that matters in RvR, if you think that your wrong, and Bard can get mach5, highest instant aemezz, very good resist buffs and still heal good enough, drop the Music line alittle and you'll get group heals too.
oh, and the time on Instant aecc arent that important

 

[old.Aure]

Originally posted by old.Atrox


FYI Instant heals arent all that matters in RvR, if you think that your wrong, and Bard can get mach5, highest instant aemezz, very good resist buffs and still heal good enough, drop the Music line alittle and you'll get group heals too.
oh, and the time on Instant aecc arent that important

Think the idea to compare is really about 8 vs 8 groups, try playing a bard and actually killing anything.

If we all had a carbon copy of each char in each realm, the game perhaps wouldn't be so interesting.

What sort of damage do sorceror's do in comparison to bards? It's not something that I've looked at, but bard basically gets a DD shout and worst melee in Hibernia.

Bards are valuable in rvr but aren't gods and are usually the first victim of the fight. A sorceror just looks like another caster, but then so does the friar.

 

[old.Atrox]

Tourin I agree Bard sucks solo in RvR.

but what I wanned to point out was the keypersons, how many diffrent classes you need in the group to gain access to the important parts.
Bards do have access to the 3 most important parts, heals/mach5/aeCC


but then again, Im not saying that it's the best idea to have all important parts on 1 person, but that grants Hibernia groups a better template for small group fighting.

 

[svar]

Yes, they do have acces to them, and no, they cannot perform all three or even two of them effectively.

 

[old.Atrox]

Originally posted by svar
Yes, they do have acces to them, and no, they cannot perform all three or even two of them effectively.

oh so they cannot get mach5 and instant aemezz ?

 

[Coren]

47 music, 43 nurture, 16 regrowth?

That's the best speed, the best insta ae mez and good healing.

And they can do it all at the same time aswell. Play speed, start to heal and insta ae mez while you're busy casting the heal. So to you.

 

[svar]

You guys are really stubborn, arent you? Sigh...

Xorta: Yes they can. But how odd, I thought you said they could heal too? Well they can, but then they cant have the best insta AOE mezz. The 37 music one, which is maybe achievable in the template you are advertising, lasts 26 seconds at base, which translates to about 10 seconds with all the resists and RAs in game, ie : useless.

Coren: Lol, dont even go into healing with 16 regrowth... those 60-180 (yes, variance is terrible) heals dont even show on my health bar. Would like to see you try to keep a group alive in RvR with that crap.


Anyway, lets end this pointless discussion. Bards are a great class, but there is (luckily tbh, because then it would be too easy to cripple hib groups) no way they can replace a true healer/druid/cleric. Or, if they spec so they come close, their songs and mezzes are worthless. Bards are surely no miracle workers like you guys make them to be.

 

[j000 d000d]

He's right.

Bard's can't really heal. The heals are awful. Same goes for Wardens.

Even a greycon buffbot heals for more than Tuorin does

Bards/Wardens are great, just dont expect them to heal.

That's why the best groups are like: Bard/Bard/Druid/Warden/Caster/Stealther/Tank/Tank

 

[Coren]

Noone ever said bard was supposed to be the prime healer nor did anyone say they were great healers. The bard in our hib/excal exp group got 16 regrowth aswell and heals for 200-250 all the time, and he's only lvl 38. I know those aren't sufficient to keep a RvR group alive by itself, but they're still decent heals.

And look at the template again, I adviced 47 music, which will give you the 47 spec (ie best) insta ae mez. If you want to argue about it's usefulness, go ahead, but you said a bard couldn't get all the good stuff because they had to spec 3 lines.

Bards are nowhere near overpowered, but the all the things they can give to a group are way better than any other class gets.

 

[old.Eynar_Vega]

hm, interesting discussion here. I kinda agree with both sides here, but imo you're kind of discussing over something which is more of a disadvantage than an advantage. I agree with Svar that bards can't keep a group alive with their heals in RvR, but then again, they aren't supposed to (plenty of druids). In Midgard only 1 class has to perform both the cc and acting as main healing class, so don't expect a lot of heals with only 1 healer in group. Admitted, healers are a very versatile class, but imo it was silly from Mythic to make the main healing class main cc class too.
And to Xorta: you say that sorcerors only get 1 ae mezz, which may be correct, but if I remember well then theurgists get an ae mezz too?

 

[liste]

<listed spells, is Lvl/name/Casting Time/power usage/target/radius/duration/range>

<Sorc mezz>
44 Shroud of Senility 3 sec. 21P Enemy 400 72 sec 1500

<Theurgist mezz>
49 Confusing Storm 3 sec. 32P Enemy 300 32 sec 1250

<minstrel mezz>
45 Enrapturing Lullaby 5 sec. 57P Enemy 250 30 sec 1500

<cleric>
44 Theophany Instant 28P PB 200 30 sec point blank INSTA

theurgist ae mezz has poo radius, poo range and poo duration.
Better than nothing, obviously, but lightyears away from a 'Normal' ae mezz. not to mention that theurgs dont get Cure mez, and as such, they cant really perform the job of Primary CC nearly as good as a sorc/bard/healer (not to mention they dont have single target mezz). Looking at minstrel mezz, it seven worse, at is has even lower duration and a 5 seconds timer (AND you do a /victory when you cast it. its like screaming Hey! Kill me!)

Compared to all the other mezz classes:

<Bard>
43 Captivate Legions 3 sec. 27P Enemy 350 70 sec 1500
47 Entrancing Harmony Instant 30P Enemy 300 31 sec INSTA

<eldritch>
47 Paralyzing Cloud 3 sec. 30P Enemy 350 31 sec 1500

<Mentalist added because it has cure mezz and a whooping 80 sec duration on their single target mezz>
50 Unmake Mind 3 sec. 23P Enemy 80 sec 1500

<druid>
46 Choking Undergrowth 99% Instant 30P Enemy 350 69 sec 1500 INSTA Root


<Healer>
44 Tranquilize Area 3 sec. 28P Enemy 350 65 sec 1500
50 Cease Charge 2.5 sec. 33P Enemy 250 11 sec 1500 STUN
47 Pacifying Gaze Instant 30P Enemy 300 31 sec 1500 INSTA
38 Paralyzing Glare Instant 24P Enemy 150 9 sec. 1500 INSTA STUN

<Spirit Master>
50 Umbral Shroud 3 sec. 33P Enemy 300 33 sec 1500
42 Umbral Wave 151 2 sec. 27P PB 300 29 sec Point Blank
Classes of Camelot seems to be bugged here. they are displaying the point blank mezz as having a damage. SM please verify if you do have pbaoe mezz.

<Skald>
42 Paralyzing Shout Instant 53P Enemy 29 sec. INSTA <not aoe>


Food for thought:
Albion is the only realm to have only one instaCC class. And that is the worst of them.
Albion's main CC is the only one with cloth, but also the only one with quick cast.
Albion has 4 different classes with mezz. in return, they pay the price of having the worst insta CC, and the worst secondary CC.
Midgard has THE best CC. no discussion. they have the longest stun in the game, and its aoe. they can use a smaller stun, in return to make it insta. oh, and aoe.
they pay the price of having fewer CC classes <skald only has the insta>
Hibernia has 3 mezz classes, of which 2 are aoe. they have a insta rooter though.

Sorcerer has the best aoe mezz in the game. bigger radius, and slightly higher duration.


if we look at the ammount of people who actually DO make a CC class, albion comes out at the bottom. way down.

I wouldnt be surprised if we had to count on infils to do our CC soon, with Dragonfang.

 

[old.Atrox]

Spiritmasters get aemezz too

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by liste
theurgist ae mezz has poo radius and poo duration.
Better than nothing, obviously, but lightyears away from a 'Normal' ae mezz

Actually it's 350 radius (i.e. normal). It's almost the same ae mez as a light eldritch, but for some strange reason only 1250 range instead of 1500 like every other ranged ae mez.
Mythic should have left minstrel AE mez on the flute.

 

[liste]

nerf people who post replies while im typing

Danyan, according to Classes of Camelot, the radius is 300.
this is ofc based on american patches, so i guess they decided to nerf the greatest mezz the game ever saw