When will we see the 1st...

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

so what? i ran with 8% heat till rr9 on rm. NO SKILL CLASS ROFLLOLOLS


edit: and spirit, and energy, and pretty much all resists were shit xD

Yah and i run with almost all resists capped and still get 3 shoted, says alot about what condition this game is in...was more balance when it was "Dark age of Tankalot" tbh...

or?

 

[Belomar]

And for me beeing a shite player... seriously if i mezz HIS PETS, HIM and get the jump and a HUGE advantage in the fight, then i used all my tools i can to kill him... and all he does is purge stunn and "lifetap" me to death... thats just rediculous.

Oh noes, another class was able to kill you on your Minstrel, nerf them, Mythic, OMG haxx!

 

[liloe]

yes bd's & warlocks are OP but you can't blame the players to trying them out.

IF albs had them NF would be full with warlocks and bd's, same with hibs.

there is quite some truth in this =))

 

[Golena]

16 casts, jesus? that's nothing in a close fight in fg wars, bet i do around 40 casts with rm there...let's talk about the dps after those 16 casts are gone?


im not saying WL's are not op'ed in 1vs1, im saying they suck arse in fg war.

If your able to get off 40 casts without dying, does that not say something for the interupting ability of your opponents?

As a cleric if a caster nuked one of my group 40 times, i'd have run out of power 3 times over.

 

[liloe]

he didn't say he gets off 40casts on one single target and thb, that sounds like a more or less realistic number to me, if you take a standard medium duration fight =)

 

[remi]

or?

its more balanced then ever in terms of tank vs caster.

 

[remi]

The scenario stands correct yes. I used malice to bump my charisma stats by 50 so i had 250 charisma normal minstrels have 190.
I don't have FZ since iam not a sojorner. And if i had FZ he would just windowdrag inside it "out of view mates4tw"...
Aldorans fkn instant lifetap spell healed him for insane amounts of hits yes, my dds didnt kill him no.

And for me beeing a shite player... seriously if i mezz HIS PETS, HIM and get the jump and a HUGE advantage in the fight, then i used all my tools i can to kill him... and all he does is purge stunn and "lifetap" me to death... thats just rediculous. ( I even IP'ed used heal pot and warlord self 220 heal ) Thats around 2233+1100+300+200 hits to kill and he does it with his fkn lifetap, HAHA....and iam dding and styling for my life and the abusive little c...t strafes and shit and ur actually defending him/the class ( safe to say ALL BDs strafe abuse )

Only idiots defend those no skill classes. Sorc is also OPed but its easy to correct, make sure MoC isnt aplyable for spells that do damage, or remove lifetap from the game atm its just pathetic.
Even better just remove all fkn mls, ras and crap there is in this game

Got abit carried away here, no irl offence intended!

such liddul whinestory, you cant kill a bd? so fucking what? a RM cant win vs a Ministrel. (among alot more classes)

 

[Coldbeard]

yes bd's & warlocks are OP but you can't blame the players to trying them out.

IF albs had them NF would be full with warlocks and bd's, same with hibs.

It is naive to think people are just "trying them out" and are not aware of their op'ness. I think most people playing BD, Warlock, Bainshee etc are quite aware of their classes being overpowered but simply does not care, because winning is all right? And if they can pwn by using a class that is OP, they use it.

I totally agree that if it was Albs or Hibs that had the warlock class it would be exactly the same situation. People are desperate to roll the new FOTM killingmachines whatever realm they are from. It must be said though, that the class designers are partially guilty for making such stupid classes but then again people taking advantage of it is what annoys me more.

Some players are able to play well and make a class usable by their own skill while others just let the class overpowerdness compensate for their lack of skill and clue.

 

[liloe]

While you might be right Coldbeard, the classes exist and so people will play them, although there are different types of players. Some just play around and don't care much if their char is OP or not. Some will optimize the most OP'd char they can find to use it in a fg setup, some will just try them out in a zerg to toy around, some will not touch them in fear of being called FOTM, etc. etc., I guess I could go on endless.

Thing is, even some players of OP'd classes are really good at it and would perform nearly as well if their char was less powerful.

Well and for those classes we particularly like, there are special developped tic-tacs to beat them =)) That means: whenever I see a Warlock I will add, leech, zerg to kill him. After all nobody forbids that person to roll a Warlock, but nobody forbids me to make his life a pain =))

Oh and one last thing, I only rolled a lvl 22 Warlock for thid but I got so friggen bored, prefer playing my Valkyrie =) I like the char much more <3 no matter how bad their stigma is =)

 

[Puppet]

16 casts, jesus? that's nothing in a close fight in fg wars, bet i do around 40 casts with rm there...let's talk about the dps after those 16 casts are gone?

So you want sustained DPS on a class all designed (retarded design) about insane uninterrupted frontload? Also in a typical FG fight, I dont know how many casts a runemaster makes. Not 40 if the enemy knows its job. And my statement still stands, Im rather sure between interrupts and such, a Warlock has better DPS then your interrupted, kiting, trying to survive Runemaster.

Well if you want to talk about after he blasted all that power gone? Well first of all, a warlock can do about half of your DPS with powerless casts, and has a PoM20-spell he can cast during the fight to regain mana very fast. Incase he needs power drastically, he can also ask one of his maters to fire Jacina for him, thats another 20%~ power. Powerless spreadheal is, when used on the right time, also tremendous 'counter-DPS'. The utility of nearsight, defensive PBAE if needed AND banelord.

You know, the only reason they suck in Midgard is quite obvious. DPS was never a problem for Mids in a typical-setup. Neither was utility. Interrupts? Well lets not start on that shall we.. Leaves banelord.. Oh wait boney has that xD

At the start of SI, Bonedancer sucked aswell in FG according to the opinion of alot of Mids. Mostly because of.... savages and bugged LA on berserkers roxored in Tank-Era.

You might be right that WL sucks in a FG, personally Im rather unsure about it. Did you seriously try it ?


Don't even need to talk about 1vs1. We all know the deal there, and only total retards try to defend it ('The game aint about 1vs1')

 

[Puppet]

so what? i ran with 8% heat till rr9 on rm. NO SKILL CLASS ROFLLOLOLS


edit: and spirit, and energy, and pretty much all resists were shit xD

Im sure you ran with a shit SC with 6% slash resists, but then spend a RA-point for Physical Defense I to get a whopping 8% slash xD

 

[pjuppe]

Oh noes, another class was able to kill you on your Minstrel, nerf them, Mythic, OMG haxx!

maybe it's just me but if someone wins by just strafing and hitting one button, something is wrong?

It is naive to think people are just "trying them out" and are not aware of their op'ness. I think most people playing BD, Warlock, Bainshee etc are quite aware of their classes being overpowered but simply does not care, because winning is all right? And if they can pwn by using a class that is OP, they use it.

I totally agree that if it was Albs or Hibs that had the warlock class it would be exactly the same situation. People are desperate to roll the new FOTM killingmachines whatever realm they are from. It must be said though, that the class designers are partially guilty for making such stupid classes but then again people taking advantage of it is what annoys me more.

Some players are able to play well and make a class usable by their own skill while others just let the class overpowerdness compensate for their lack of skill and clue.

is it wrong to play just for fun?

 

[Chap]

Im sure you ran with a shit SC with 6% slash resists, but then spend a RA-point for Physical Defense I to get a whopping 8% slash xD

Physical Defense is calculated after the initial resists (items + racial), just like Avoidance of Magic. So he would end up with 6% + (2%*0.94) = 7.92%
Never really see alot of mids run with wl in grps tbh. Dont know if its because mids view them as insanely OP or because they actually suck in fg.
I dont like them coz in a long lasting fight they will be usefull in the first 5 secs of a fight to remove DI and the first couple of PR's and after that their dps will drop. From my point of view both BD and SM lasts longer and has more util. Rm on the other hand is prolly one of the weakest casters in the game, and deffo the weakest in mid, but still has nice util and damage output if played correctly.

 

[Puppet]

maybe it's just me but if someone wins by just strafing and hitting one button, something is wrong?

Indeed. That's what I think is the biggest problem with classes like BD's and WL's. No matter how well the majority of enemies play, the BD (and especially WL) has the odds stacked up in their favour so much, even strafe+tap is almost I-Win for BD's.

I find it ironic at times certain people play a Shadowblade, whine all day how overpowered Remedy is, and how it should be nerfed, 'because its overpowered in 1vs1 against two classes'. Warlocks and Bonedancers are 'I-Win' against, what, 35 classes? Without needing RR5 aswell xD

Will be good Remedy gets nerfed because 'overpowered in 1vs1' because that will open up the possibilities to nerf I-win classes as above.

 

[Coldbeard]

is it wrong to play just for fun?

not really no, but I was under the impression that games should be challenging and that there was more to mmorpgs than just winning?

 

[pjuppe]

not really no, but I was under the impression that games should be challenging and that there was more to mmorpgs than just winning?

yes, there is. having fun. that's why i play at least.

 

[remi]

So you want sustained DPS on a class all designed (retarded design) about insane uninterrupted frontload? Also in a typical FG fight, I dont know how many casts a runemaster makes. Not 40 if the enemy knows its job. And my statement still stands, Im rather sure between interrupts and such, a Warlock has better DPS then your interrupted, kiting, trying to survive Runemaster.

Well if you want to talk about after he blasted all that power gone? Well first of all, a warlock can do about half of your DPS with powerless casts, and has a PoM20-spell he can cast during the fight to regain mana very fast. Incase he needs power drastically, he can also ask one of his maters to fire Jacina for him, thats another 20%~ power. Powerless spreadheal is, when used on the right time, also tremendous 'counter-DPS'. The utility of nearsight, defensive PBAE if needed AND banelord.

You know, the only reason they suck in Midgard is quite obvious. DPS was never a problem for Mids in a typical-setup. Neither was utility. Interrupts? Well lets not start on that shall we.. Leaves banelord.. Oh wait boney has that xD

At the start of SI, Bonedancer sucked aswell in FG according to the opinion of alot of Mids. Mostly because of.... savages and bugged LA on berserkers roxored in Tank-Era.

You might be right that WL sucks in a FG, personally Im rather unsure about it. Did you seriously try it ?


Don't even need to talk about 1vs1. We all know the deal there, and only total retards try to defend it ('The game aint about 1vs1')

blehbleh, you explaining daoc to me here? i know the game man.


lets say i average 5 spells per enemy, enemy gets to rezz 4 people, makes it 12enemies x5 spells: 60 spells... (you could trix with these numbers , but 40 sounds about right)

I was conviced i could do some warlock fg pawning, but leveled a warlock to 47, to realize that casttime after those UI's will be so shit its not even funny.

a casttime over 2 sec on a caster = deathslow , really.

Will try 41 WC for the 3.8spd powerless to be more groupable... but then the dps will be shit.....so its gonna be a bomblock with rogs and camping keeps

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

such liddul whinestory, you cant kill a bd? so fucking what? a RM cant win vs a Ministrel. (among alot more classes)

Thing is the balance of this game is fucked up. A RM can 3 all hybrids in this game ( except palas ) and ALL stealthers, no wil surive 3x600-900 dmg.
And u got brittles, BT, moc, purge3 to counter most things others can throw at you.

The point is as a minstrel i can easily kill other assassins ( like it should be, all classes should have an achilles heel )

So tell me what achilles heel does BDs have, and if u as i cant really come up with one then.. tell me what the point with having iwinclasses in a game and have idiots defending them, now iam dont recon u as one of those idiots...

Minstrel vs casters nowdays ( without FZ ) is, dd+dd mezz lands, dd+dd hit ( breka BT ) stunn, hit hit hit ( if the caster have some rrs like everyone has at this point in the game ) he WILL Purge stunn and /face moc and kill me.

Then maybe i'm not to whine since iam a warlord and i got no FZ and NO PS. But still if a caster gets the jump on me then i think he deserves to have a 100% advantage in a the fight, stealthers vs visuals don't have this at all. Miss a PA on a caster with brittles - bang ur dead.

OMG i turned it into a stealther vs visual whine aswell! bad me!

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

It is naive to think people are just "trying them out" and are not aware of their op'ness. I think most people playing BD, Warlock, Bainshee etc are quite aware of their classes being overpowered but simply does not care, because winning is all right? And if they can pwn by using a class that is OP, they use it.

I totally agree that if it was Albs or Hibs that had the warlock class it would be exactly the same situation. People are desperate to roll the new FOTM killingmachines whatever realm they are from. It must be said though, that the class designers are partially guilty for making such stupid classes but then again people taking advantage of it is what annoys me more.

Some players are able to play well and make a class usable by their own skill while others just let the class overpowerdness compensate for their lack of skill and clue.

Agree with u to 100%

Would also like to mention that mythic ofc knows about the classes OPedness. I mean they make a worthless expansion ( catacombs seriously what did cata bring except OPed iwinclasses? ) And WHO would be stupid enough to buy it (after the ToA grind HAHehaehaeh ) if it wasn't to just roll the new iwinclasses and own everyone that couldn't be arsed to buy the new shit expansion they threw out on the market.
Obviously mythic is punishing the community that didn't buy the expansion and didn't give them $$.
Nothing anyone say will make me change my view on this, it's so obvious what thier intentions where - if not, where is the class balance hotfixes?

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

blehbleh, you explaining daoc to me here? i know the game man.


lets say i average 5 spells per enemy, enemy gets to rezz 4 people, makes it 12enemies x5 spells: 60 spells... (you could trix with these numbers , but 40 sounds about right)

I was conviced i could do some warlock fg pawning, but leveled a warlock to 47, to realize that casttime after those UI's will be so shit its not even funny.

a casttime over 2 sec on a caster = deathslow , really.

Will try 41 WC for the 3.8spd powerless to be more groupable... but then the dps will be shit.....so its gonna be a bomblock with rogs and camping keeps

Pre ToA and the insane castrates there where alot of good and feared casters. I'm not sure what thier cast time was but i'd guess it was around 1.6-1.8 seconds right? A wizard couldn't just instant cast 2 fire balls and do 1700 dmg too u then 1.2 s later nuke u for 800 dmg. It's like running around with aimbot and a AWM in CS - fun?

WHY ISN'T CAST RATES CAPPED AT 1.5s AS MELEE IS?

Tanks was very nice in pre toa patches but a skilled caster that did verything right could still 3-4 shot a support class and in that way 'do his job', not it become so silly /face 111 300 rps, /face 111 300 rps /face 111 300 rps.

Seriously if I was a rr10 say.. enchanter I would be pissd off aswell since the aspect of skill has been taken away and its just too easy. Not sure if ANYONE agrees on that, but thats okey.

 

[remi]

Thing is the balance of this game is fucked up. A RM can 3 all hybrids in this game ( except palas ) and ALL stealthers, no wil surive 3x600-900 dmg.
And u got brittles, BT, moc, purge3 to counter most things others can throw at you.

The point is as a minstrel i can easily kill other assassins ( like it should be, all classes should have an achilles heel )

So tell me what achilles heel does BDs have, and if u as i cant really come up with one then.. tell me what the point with having iwinclasses in a game and have idiots defending them, now iam dont recon u as one of those idiots...

Minstrel vs casters nowdays ( without FZ ) is, dd+dd mezz lands, dd+dd hit ( breka BT ) stunn, hit hit hit ( if the caster have some rrs like everyone has at this point in the game ) he WILL Purge stunn and /face moc and kill me.

Then maybe i'm not to whine since iam a warlord and i got no FZ and NO PS. But still if a caster gets the jump on me then i think he deserves to have a 100% advantage in a the fight, stealthers vs visuals don't have this at all. Miss a PA on a caster with brittles - bang ur dead.

OMG i turned it into a stealther vs visual whine aswell! bad me!

why are you warlord then? FZ the mocing/purgeing casters~~

i killed lotsa bd's pretoa with infil, and with the toys infils got now, shouldnt be that hard?

 

[remi]

Pre ToA and the insane castrates there where alot of good and feared casters. I'm not sure what thier cast time was but i'd guess it was around 1.6-1.8 seconds right? A wizard couldn't just instant cast 2 fire balls and do 1700 dmg too u then 1.2 s later nuke u for 800 dmg. It's like running around with aimbot and a AWM in CS - fun?

WHY ISN'T CAST RATES CAPPED AT 1.5s AS MELEE IS?

Tanks was very nice in pre toa patches but a skilled caster that did verything right could still 3-4 shot a support class and in that way 'do his job', not it become so silly /face 111 300 rps, /face 111 300 rps /face 111 300 rps.

Seriously if I was a rr10 say.. enchanter I would be pissd off aswell since the aspect of skill has been taken away and its just too easy. Not sure if ANYONE agrees on that, but thats okey.

pre toa was a tank game, savages anyone? its way more balanced now.

 

[polza]

Pre ToA and the insane castrates there where alot of good and feared casters. I'm not sure what thier cast time was but i'd guess it was around 1.6-1.8 seconds right? A wizard couldn't just instant cast 2 fire balls and do 1700 dmg too u then 1.2 s later nuke u for 800 dmg. It's like running around with aimbot and a AWM in CS - fun?

WHY ISN'T CAST RATES CAPPED AT 1.5s AS MELEE IS?

Tanks was very nice in pre toa patches but a skilled caster that did verything right could still 3-4 shot a support class and in that way 'do his job', not it become so silly /face 111 300 rps, /face 111 300 rps /face 111 300 rps.

no1 gonan interupt those casters? aye i agree leave a caster to stand there he will kill everythin but if ur just gonna watch the caster nuke everythin u deserve to die(talkin about fg rvr + zerg rvr).

if u cap cast spd at 1.5s same as melle can i be uninteruptalbe plz like tanks, seeing as tank walks up 2 u all he has to do is stick and keep in attack mode and sprint if u sprint, if he resists ur qced form of CC. and even if u get moc3 thats 30pts gone and pretty worthless on a mage w/o a high lvl pbaoe.

all comes to the fact that mage CAN be interupted and made completly useless w/o spendin 5 RA pts if u wanna just interupt.(well bds and warlocks r another matter) tanks CANNOT be interupted and r near un CCable at a decent RR. If mages do not have a fast cast spd and high dmg then there would be no point of them unless u make them uninteruptable

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

no1 gonan interupt those casters? aye i agree leave a caster to stand there he will kill everythin but if ur just gonna watch the caster nuke everythin u deserve to die(talkin about fg rvr + zerg rvr).

if u cap cast spd at 1.5s same as melle can i be uninteruptalbe plz like tanks, seeing as tank walks up 2 u all he has to do is stick and keep in attack mode and sprint if u sprint, if he resists ur qced form of CC. and even if u get moc3 thats 30pts gone and pretty worthless on a mage w/o a high lvl pbaoe.

all comes to the fact that mage CAN be interupted and made completly useless w/o spendin 5 RA pts if u wanna just interupt.(well bds and warlocks r another matter) tanks CANNOT be interupted and r near un CCable at a decent RR. If mages do not have a fast cast spd and high dmg then there would be no point of them unless u make them uninteruptable

Since you talk about fg rvr now, that tank can get 1, grappled, 2, stunned 3, mezzed, 4, rooted, 5, FZed 6, walk into 3-4 brittles + pbt/bt, 7 lagg strafe wich all casters abuse ( i would abuse it too if it worked against /face 1111 nukers )

Would a solution to this whole imbalance problem be solved if damages was halfed with 100% ?

I think the game is messed up atm where casters just rule the servers completely, takes the piss to get nuked by 2-3 casters for 600 dmg at 1.2s / nuke.
But I can also see it takes the piss to be a caster and beeing interrupted nonstop by a banelord tank...

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

pre toa was a tank game, savages anyone? its way more balanced now.

Well after the savage quad dmg fix it was fairly balanced imo.

I remb shortly after toa came* FL run with sorc+theug+caba/pala, 2 mercs, 2 clerics 1 minstrel and did it quiet well. Caster was not as bad as you try to make it out. Mids typical ran with 3 healers, shaman and 4 savages...the ofc there where groups who ran something diffrent. But in our GG i didn't get th feeling that casters was shit and not needed in groups.

Mercs went for savages, casters positioned themself/pre kite whatever you call it nowdays, and started to pet spamm/sned pets/debuff etc, minstrel went after enemy casters to prevent them from doing so. Perefect balance imo

Maybe its just me who have a hard time adpating to the fact that if a caster targets you, ur dead in 3 nukes and not like before, when I could last alot longer and felt that the fight wasn't just about how fast ur casters can /assist /face 111

* ( and our group wasn't very toa'ed at all at that time, and no NF RA's etc or cata classes )

 

[remi]

Well after the savage quad dmg fix it was fairly balanced imo.

I remb shortly after toa came* FL run with sorc+theug+caba/pala, 2 mercs, 2 clerics 1 minstrel and did it quiet well. Caster was not as bad as you try to make it out. Mids typical ran with 3 healers, shaman and 4 savages...the ofc there where groups who ran something diffrent. But in our GG i didn't get th feeling that casters was shit and not needed in groups.

Mercs went for savages, casters positioned themself/pre kite whatever you call it nowdays, and started to pet spamm/sned pets/debuff etc, minstrel went after enemy casters to prevent them from doing so. Perefect balance imo

Maybe its just me who have a hard time adpating to the fact that if a caster targets you, ur dead in 3 nukes and not like before, when I could last alot longer and felt that the fight wasn't just about how fast ur casters can /assist /face 111

* ( and our group wasn't very toa'ed at all at that time, and no NF RA's etc or cata classes )

again, in start of TOA = casters fun era, 25% pierce, wasnt it 25% cast spd also? bg/grapple...haha...yea...gib back that xD

 

[Lethul]

Pre ToA and the insane castrates there where alot of good and feared casters. I'm not sure what thier cast time was but i'd guess it was around 1.6-1.8 seconds right? A wizard couldn't just instant cast 2 fire balls and do 1700 dmg too u then 1.2 s later nuke u for 800 dmg. It's like running around with aimbot and a AWM in CS - fun?

WHY ISN'T CAST RATES CAPPED AT 1.5s AS MELEE IS?

Tanks was very nice in pre toa patches but a skilled caster that did verything right could still 3-4 shot a support class and in that way 'do his job', not it become so silly /face 111 300 rps, /face 111 300 rps /face 111 300 rps.

Seriously if I was a rr10 say.. enchanter I would be pissd off aswell since the aspect of skill has been taken away and its just too easy. Not sure if ANYONE agrees on that, but thats okey.

you should try and play a caster vs banelords/bds/bainshees

 

[Dallas]

seems pretty good to me atm, you can run full tank grp, do good.. run full caster grp, do good..

Casters get more dps when theyre free, since theyre obviously interruptable,
tanks are free most of the time and therefor get lower overall dps..
Still a banespiking tank, and using battler charge on a caster is tough shit for the caster, if caster use moc, he cant kill as fast

 

[Chap]

Since you talk about fg rvr now, that tank can get 1, grappled, 2, stunned 3, mezzed, 4, rooted, 5, FZed 6, walk into 3-4 brittles + pbt/bt, 7 lagg strafe wich all casters abuse ( i would abuse it too if it worked

1 Prolly the most used form of CC vs bl tanks
2 Det5 and charge2. Ever heard of tendrils?
3 Det5 and charge2
4 Det5 and charge2
5 15 min timer
6 howlong will brittles last with 2-3 bl tanks on him?
7 stun negates this
You dont really have a clue do you? Most tanks are unCC'able and with banespike you can insta kill casters.

 

[Radga$t]

Most tanks are unCC'able and with banespike you can insta kill casters.

up!