What would you do

[Guest]

My grandma fell 8 weeks ago and broke her wrist and her hip, after she came round from the operation she couldnt eat or drink anythign, it kept going down the wrong way and making her choke and she kept getting chest infections, we found out (i looked on the internet, not told by the nurses/doctor) that this is called Dysphagia, your brain sort of forgets to tell your mouth how to swallow so everythnig goes into your lungs, shes not got any better and after being on a nose tube feed for 7 weeks they (the dr and my mum) have decided because she is not getting any better they are going to take the feeding tube out (when they feed her its coming out the other way so its not doing any good), they said they will give her saline if she is hungry and morphine for pain but effectively if she cant eat then she will starve to death, shes 93.

In this instance surely it should be legal for mum to say that the Dr gives her a shit load of morphine so that she goes to sleep and thats it, i mean, starving to death cant be any fun can it.

I went to see her on saturday and she looked ok (only 1 day after the tube had been taken out), but im not going back to the hospital, i could not stand to see her all fucked up.

 

[Tom]

Can't help you with the moral dilemma, but if you value your Gran you should be visiting at least a couple of times a week, even if she can't talk she might still want to hear what you're getting up to. You'll never forgive yourself if you don't.

 

[Guest]

She has been to the high dependancy unit a couple of times and it looked all fucked up with tubes out of her and wires everywhere, i said to myself that if she did get worse and was going to die then i would rather see her once when she was ok and not go again, i cant stand to see her in pain, i have been to see her twice a week and at weekends for the past 8 weeks, i would rather have a lasting memory of her as she was on saturday, not half dead.

When i was at high school i went everyday for 5 years for my dinner at her house, i am very close to her and although i am 37 it will still fuck me up to have her not here.

 

[Chilly]

its illegal to murder in this country, sadly. and that what loading her with an OD of morphine would be, on the other hand it is NOT illegal to kill via withdrawal of sustenance - while at the same time keeping her so doped shes probably in a coma andyway - its (probably) 100% painless and causing her no distress (morphine is good shit) although it is always a bit distressing when you think that she is dying from starvation (like my grandfather, who had parkinsons went the same way ).

 

[venus]

Im sorry to here about your gran Brooky.

I understand why you are so desperate for her to have a quick and peaceful passing and that you do not want to see her suffer (I felt the same way about my gran when she passed away), however I hope that the nurses looking after her will make her as comfortable as possible. As a nurse I just want to give you a few tips on the things that you can do to ensure that she has the most comfortable passing:
She should be prescribed some kind of morphine pain relief as you have indicated and I would encourage you to ensure that this has been done. Also I would advise that you and your family ask that it is being given regularly when you go and visit. Providing that regular pain relief is given and she is receiving regular assistance to change her position (preventing pressure sores) and regular care of her mouth (to prevent soreness, they should be wiping it out regularly with water, pineapple juice is also good to keep the mouth fresh) and this should all be happening approximately every 2 hours, she should have a relatively comfortable passing. Don’t be afraid to ask the nursing staff questions about her care. I would advise that you visit her even if you do find it hard. They always say that the last thing to go is the hearing she will be aware that you are there and should be comforted by your presence. As for the length of time she will be with you, that is the most difficult aspect of this and I really can’t give you a time frame. I can only reassure you that with the right care she will be comfortable and I hope for her sake and yours that she passes as quickly as possible.

I hope that this has given you some comfort

 

[Damini]

She has been to the high dependancy unit a couple of times and it looked all fucked up with tubes out of her and wires everywhere, i said to myself that if she did get worse and was going to die then i would rather see her once when she was ok and not go again, i cant stand to see her in pain, i have been to see her twice a week and at weekends for the past 8 weeks, i would rather have a lasting memory of her as she was on saturday, not half dead.

I know how difficult it must be, but surely it matters more what your gran is going through, rather than how much it effects you? I know if I was in that position, I'd want my family near me as much as possible in the little time I had left.

 

[DaGaffer]

I know if I was in that position, I'd want my family near me as much as possible in the little time I had left.

I wouldn't.

 

[Nos]

If she's not got much time left, you should see her as much as possible.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your kind words Venus, she is getting all the things you said, mum is going everyday but i cant go, its too much for me. I need to be strong for my mum because she will be the one thats going to be hurting the most, my brother is coming back from Melbourne but he gets here on saturday, hopefully he will see her before she goes, if he gets back in time i may go with him, altho im uncertain.

 

[Trem]

Almost a year ago I watched my dad die. He basically filled up with fluid until he drowned. He had the tubes and he was moaning and screaming stuff like "I'm suffocating son".

Now I cannot get those images out of my mind, and most days I feel like crying, I feel like it as I'm typing this.

BUT I stayed with him til the end, I held his hand as he died. I am so pleased I stayed, it would of been easier and better for my mind to of not been there, but hes my dad, my dad won't die alone.

Please Brooky see your nan, see her every minute you can. People do die, people leave us all the time(especially when we hit our 30s like you and I), its our responsibility to make sure they aren't alone in their last days.

 

[Lazarus]

somethings you need to do in life that you would rather not do brooky.

I think this is one of these times - do it (not for yourself, but for your gran)

 

[venus]

Thanks for your kind words Venus, she is getting all the things you said, mum is going everyday but i cant go, its too much for me. I need to be strong for my mum because she will be the one thats going to be hurting the most, my brother is coming back from Melbourne but he gets here on saturday, hopefully he will see her before she goes, if he gets back in time i may go with him, altho im uncertain.

It’s no problem at all.

I can see why you are finding this so painful I would at least try and go and see her with your brother just so that you can say goodbye. However if you really cant then do not feel pressured, everybody has their own way of dealing with these situations. Your gran loves you and she will understand the reason for you not visiting. Wanting to be strong for your mother is also understanderable but don’t forget that you need to grieve as well!

Best wishes

 

[Tilda]

You have my sympathies brooky

Trem, that sounds quite horrific, i'm so sorry.

its illegal to murder in this country, sadly. and that what loading her with an OD of morphine would be, on the other hand it is NOT illegal to kill via withdrawal of sustenance - while at the same time keeping her so doped shes probably in a coma andyway - its (probably) 100% painless and causing her no distress (morphine is good shit) although it is always a bit distressing when you think that she is dying from starvation (like my grandfather, who had parkinsons went the same way ).

Just to add to this, its not illegal kill someone by an omission, ie by removing a feeding tube. However, this is only not illegal if its done by a Doctor, and he/she feels its in the patients best interestes. And thus because its in the patients best interestes, hes not violating his Hypocratic oath.

It would be illegal if a random person off the street walked in and pulled out the breathing tube.
Its a crazy country we live in where doctors can effectivley kill by starving someone to death, but not drugging them so they fall alseep and die.

Tilda

 

[Paradroid]

Sounds similar to what happened to both my gran & grandad (on opposite sides of the family), for different reasons they both ended up not being able to eat or take the tubes.

My grandad had leukemia and my gran had a respitory condition which meant she was drowning in fluids. I was only 10 when my grandad fell ill and I was kept away from the hospital in his final days, but I was 15 when my gran died and I was holding her hand with all the family around when she died. My sister didn't see my gran in her final week (believing she would live forever, I thinK), which she totally regretted afterwards.

My dad died unexpectedly with a massive heart attack when I was 19, sometimes it's easier to handle when there's no illness. Here one day, gone the next.

At 93 your grans had a good innings as they say (my great-gran lasted until her mid-nineties too), it's hard to see people close to you suffer - but what's the alternative? I know I wouldn't want to die alone, but I suppose we all do really.

 

[Wij]

You have my sympathies brooky

Trem, that sounds quite horrific, i'm so sorry.

Just to add to this, its not illegal kill someone by an omission, ie by removing a feeding tube. However, this is only not illegal if its done by a Doctor, and he/she feels its in the patients best interestes. And thus because its in the patients best interestes, hes not violating his Hypocratic oath.

It would be illegal if a random person off the street walked in and pulled out the breathing tube.
Its a crazy country we live in where doctors can effectivley kill by starving someone to death, but not drugging them so they fall alseep and die.

Tilda

Everything Tilda said.

Also DO go see her. Honestly you don't want to regret that for the rest of your life.

 

[Gengi]

Brooky,
My dad died a couple of years ago, cancer. We took him out of the hospital and brought him home to die because that is what he wanted. It was not easy seeing him in the hospital, with the tubes in, but unlikely as this sounds, it was harder seeing him in his bedroom at home, without tubes, because we knew he was going to die and, quite soon.
His last couple of weeks were not too bad, he was with people who loved him and who he loved, there were daily visits by his friends and other family members, and he was at peace. Fortunately his pain relief worked, for the most part, a final dose of Morphine pushed him over the edge. It was strange, me, my mum and both my sisters were just hanging out, 11 o'clock had come and the final visitors had left, we got a drink and went up and sat near the bed, while the nurse gave my dad what was to be his last dose of morphine. We chatted, discussed our various offspring, even the funeral, a couple of times it was 'look at the time', but none of us left, I have never felt a sense of foreboding like it, before or after, foreboding is not the right word, anticipation, expectancy, something like that. I think we all knew my dad was going to die, that morning 2 minutes past 4 he did.
Brooky be there, it is hard, but as others have said you may well regret not being there. I know I would have.

Later

Gengee

 

[TdC]

Brooky, though I have an idea that I know exactly what you mean regarding not being able to see your gran (I'm like you in this respect), I would try to give it a go. I don't know why I say this really. I know that death is a part of life, and that you can remember moments of great joy and sadness that you shared. I also know that it is amazingly hard to watch someone dear pass away and you have my sympathies.

 

[Guest]

Grandma died at 6.30 this morning in her sleep. i feel numb, like nothings happened, anyway i thought i would let you know.



R.

 

[TdC]

my most sincere condolences Richard