News War with Russia

[Jupitus]

If any other Freddy reading this was unsure why I decided to challenge Wij on the Russia thread about Israel - it was because of this. Wij's proclivity to turn a blind eye. His tacit ongoing support of war crimes committed by Israel over a number of years.

I think I made it clear that I don't support collective punishment of civilians, which would be a war crime, whether it's done by Russia, Israel or Hamas.

Wij has stated it very clearly that he does not support war crimes. Horse / stop/ dead / beating.

 

[Scouse]

I wasn't going to do this in this thread @Jupitus - but people want their say, so it's natural to respond. You could block copy the lot into another thread if you wanted, I don't particularly care.

Wij has stated it very clearly that he does not support war crimes. Horse / stop/ dead / beating.

It's easy to do that when you've already stated something else - which he did, above. Wij's amendment is a bit like Starmer's retraction in the face of loads of Labour councillors resigning because he was too pro-Israel and said that Israel could turn off power and water - i.e. collectively punish palestinians.

Starmer's retreated from that today before the situation becomes unmanageable for Labour. But he did say that about power and water. He was equivocal but he said it. And shame on the future leader of our country for even hinting that he could potentially think that it was a reasonable course of action.

I'm not flogging a dead horse. I'm reacting to statements. Nothing else.

 

[Jupitus]

 

[Raven]

Anyway, news is Russia is taking a kicking and Ukraine have crossed the Dnipro, right as Putin grovels at the feet of Winnie the Pooh.

Shortly after losing 9 choppers and failing to take Avdiivka.

​

 

[Jupitus]

Shortly after losing 9 choppers and failing to take Avdiivka.

​

I saw a report that they lost something like 300 armour units and 3000 troops

 

[Scouse]

OK, my last post on Israel, promise, then I'll fuck off out of the Russia thread:

Boring? Really??

It took Hitler years to kill 6 million Jews. If Israel doesn't turn the water back on, they could achieve more than a third of that in a couple of weeks.

I don't think that the scope of the level of inhumanity and depravity that Israel is imposing on all of Gaza is actually twigging with some people.

 

[Raven]

I saw a report that they lost something like 300 armour units and 3000 troops

Sounds like it was a complete failure. It was timed to coincide with Putin's China visit, he heard while he was there how badly it failed.

 

[Wij]

OK, my last post on Israel, promise, then I'll fuck off out of the Russia thread:

Boring? Really??

It took Hitler years to kill 6 million Jews. If Israel doesn't turn the water back on, they could achieve more than a third of that in a couple of weeks.

I don't think that the scope of the level of inhumanity and depravity that Israel is imposing on all of Gaza is actually twigging with some people.

Now you’re putting words in Jup’s mouth. He wasn’t talking about the conflict and potential deaths as boring.

 

[Scouse]

Now you’re putting words in Jup’s mouth. He wasn’t talking about the conflict and potential deaths as boring.

Never said he did. But that's the subject matter. I know you don't want to talk about the important thing (2.3 million potential deaths in the next few days) tho. It seems that nobody does.

Are we all complicit? Only me that's apoplectic about this?

 

[Bodhi]

Never said he did. But that's the subject matter. I know you don't want to talk about the important thing (2.3 million potential deaths in the next few days) tho. It seems that nobody does.

Are we all complicit? Only me that's apoplectic about this?

Seems a fairly easy problem to solve. Hamas release the hostages and they get the water turned back on.

However given they've managed to fuck up the acquifier that provided 95% of Gaza's water that may be a bit beyond them.

 

[Jupitus]

OK, my last post on Israel, promise, then I'll fuck off out of the Russia thread:

Boring? Really??

It took Hitler years to kill 6 million Jews. If Israel doesn't turn the water back on, they could achieve more than a third of that in a couple of weeks.

I don't think that the scope of the level of inhumanity and depravity that Israel is imposing on all of Gaza is actually twigging with some people.

No, @Scouse ... I don't think the conflict between Hamas and Israel is boring at all, nor the war in Ukraine. I think that any conflict wherever it may be is abhorrent and leads to unimaginable losses for all of humanity. However, I don't choose to vent these feeling here on FH. I do sometimes though feel the need as a mod / admin to try to steer threads in the right direction rather than embarking on any 'heavy modding' which we all hate. If vyou want a chat about the middle east, go make a thread. Now do as you promised in this thread and STFU please.

 

[MYstIC G]

Now do as you promised in this thread

Yeah... never gonna happen, we're already a page past

The reason I've brought it up in this thread (and I won't continue it here)

 

[Embattle]

Yeah... never gonna happen, we're already a page past

View: https://media.giphy.com/media/26tk0aLx4Aj4lxx3W/giphy.gif


On a serious note create a separate thread, such as - Israel/Palestine (Conflict to more Conflicts)

 

[DaGaffer]

You've done what you always do - answered a different question. The question is on collective punishment of civilians, nothing else. Certainly not the separate question Israel's legitimate defensive requirements.

But that's the question you always answer, regardless of whether it had been asked. It's what you do.

And if it's what you always do, then it's a clear tactic to deflect from the subject matter - which is Israeli atrocities and war crimes. You take them off the table. And the only reason to consistently repeat that pattern of behaviour is to deflect the conversation. I.E. Tacit support demonstrated through a pattern of behaviour.

LOL. What you always do is a James O'Brien, narrowly frame the parameters of the question so you can pull a "gotcha" when people step out of bounds.

"Collective punishment" is irrelevant; if the government of Gaza is Hamas, which it is, Palestine the state (and by extension the people in it) become exposed to military action. Modern rules of war mean proportionality and the avoidance of civilian deaths where possible, but the "where possible" has always given warring states all the wiggle room they need so long as they can show they had to go through civilians to reach military targets. Which in a compact area like Gaza, is pretty much inevitable.

This, by the way has nothing to do with whether I think Israel is right, either strategically or morally (Netanyahu is doing exactly what Hamas want) but rather to point out reality doesn't give a shit about your whataboutery.

 

[Wij]

Attempted drone strikes on a nuclear power plant:


View: https://twitter.com/maria_avdv/status/1717245790152745027?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

 

[Wij]

Oh, and Elon still thinks Ukrainian Russian-speakers want to be Russian, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Dumb cunt.


View: https://twitter.com/nolanwpeterson/status/1717450929770000411?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

 

[Scouse]

Attempted drone strikes on a nuclear power plant:


View: https://twitter.com/maria_avdv/status/1717245790152745027?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

Not what the Kiev Independent is reporting.

Buildings near Khmelnytskyi Nuclear Power Plant damaged in overnight attack

A Russian attack on Khmelnytskyi Oblast in western Ukraine resulted in damage to the buildings near the region's nuclear power plant, the Energy Ministry said on Oct. 25. While air defense systems shot down the incoming projectiles, the resulting explosions damaged an administrative and a...

kyivindependent.com

 

[Wij]

Not what the Kiev Independent is reporting.

Buildings near Khmelnytskyi Nuclear Power Plant damaged in overnight attack

A Russian attack on Khmelnytskyi Oblast in western Ukraine resulted in damage to the buildings near the region's nuclear power plant, the Energy Ministry said on Oct. 25. While air defense systems shot down the incoming projectiles, the resulting explosions damaged an administrative and a...

kyivindependent.com

That doesn’t contradict it. The drones were intercepted before they got to the plant.

 

[Scouse]

That doesn’t contradict it. The drones were intercepted before they got to the plant.

Don't be silly. They're not bleeding attacking a nuclear power plant.

If Zelensky said that he's talking shit. If it was true then you'd think the kyiv independent would report it too, no?

 

[Wij]

Don't be silly. They're not bleeding attacking a nuclear power plant. Zelensky's talking shit.

Yeh - cos Russia would never cause an ecological catastrophe on purpose

 

[Scouse]

Yeh - cos Russia would never cause an ecological catastrophe on purpose

They didn't do it. The papers would be up in arms about it (and rightly so).

The only people dumb enough to shell nuclear power plants so far have been the Ukrainians.

 

[Wij]

They didn't do it. The papers would be up in arms about it (and rightly so).

The only people dumb enough to shell nuclear power plants so far have been the Ukrainians.

Which we’ve already established you have no evidence for but believe on religious faith.

 

[Scouse]

Which we’ve already established you have no evidence for but believe on religious faith.

Yeah, the Russians shelled a plant that they had under control, with their own people on the ground there.

News organisations report both sides saying it was the other side. Common sense points at the above sentence. But I guess it doesn't matter any more - it's not under threat.

But none of this changes the fact that Russia didn't attack this other nuclear plant you're on about. It's just a ludicrous accusation on twitter that the news organisations aren't touching with a barge pole.

 

[Wij]

Yeah, the Russians shelled a plant that they had under control, with their own people on the ground there.

News organisations report both sides saying it was the other side. Common sense points at the above sentence. But I guess it doesn't matter any more - it's not under threat.

But none of this changes the fact that Russia didn't attack this other nuclear plant you're on about. It's just a ludicrous accusation on twitter that the news organisations aren't touching with a barge pole.

We went through this for about 6 pages before and now you resurrect the same simplistic argument you started with. Mmmmkay.

 

[Wij]

News organisations:

Russian drones likely targeted Khmelnytskyi nuclear power station, Zelensky says

UN expresses alarm as drone strike shatters windows at major nuclear power plant

www.independent.co.uk

All 11 intercepted but windows smashed in the plant itself from the blast. But it’s not reckless when Russia does it. Russia doesnt do anything reckless *cough Khakovka dam*

 

[Scouse]

"Zelensky says". It's worth about as much as a chocolate fireguard.

I'd dearly love to see Ukraine push Russia out, just like you would. But Russia isn't attacking nuclear power plants.

Russia do plenty that's reckless and stupid though. Like invading in the first place.

 

[Wij]

"Zelensky says". It's worth about as much as a chocolate fireguard.

I'd dearly love to see Ukraine push Russia out, just like you would. But Russia isn't attacking nuclear power plants.

Russia do plenty that's reckless and stupid though. Like invading in the first place.

Drones were in the area. They were at least planning to blow up the vicinity of a nuclear power plant. How come you go mad when Ukraine is accused by Russia but when it’s the other way round it’s an automatic nah, no way.

 

[Scouse]

How come you go mad when Ukraine is accused by Russia but when it’s the other way round it’s an automatic nah, no way.

Because a radioactive waste and storage shelter, a spent fuel pond and critical safety equipment got shelled at the actual power plant.

The actual power station received hits. Not just "nearby". Actual shelling of an actual power station.

 

[Deebs]

Because a radioactive waste and storage shelter, a spent fuel pond and critical safety equipment got shelled at the actual power plant.

The actual power station received hits. Not just "nearby". Actual shelling of an actual power station.

Think you missed a word out in the above:

Actually

/me bows and runs back to his Raspberry PIs.

 

[Wij]

Because a radioactive waste and storage shelter, a spent fuel pond and critical safety equipment got shelled at the actual power plant.

The actual power station received hits. Not just "nearby". Actual shelling of an actual power station.

And we went through that and you took Russias word. Now drones were shot down around another you take Russias word again.