News War with Russia

[Gwadien]

She's thick but claiming that Lavrov thought she meant that the UK would nuke Russia is not credible. He knows perfectly well that wasn't what was meant.

Even so, why are we giving them ammunition by sending her.

I would have preferred it if we sent Mr Blobby.

 

[Scouse]

Depends on how you frame it.

Don't really like that human death is OK if you "frame" it in a specific way.

 

[Wij]

I would have preferred it if we sent Mr Blobby.

Well obvs.

Lavrov only does these things to lord it up and make the other side look stupid. He has no intention of actually negotiating. Might as well do the same. Imagine his face if Blobby spilt custard down his pants.

 

[JBP|]

But the attempt to change minds isn't pointless waffle.

Oh fuck off, you tree hugging hippie

 

[Scouse]

Oh fuck off, you tree hugging hippie

Fair. But if we all hugged trees maybe we wouldn't be cutting them down

 

[Wij]

Don't really like that human death is OK if you "frame" it in a specific way.

It's just the old train track dilemma. If you direct it down the path where it kills 1 person rather than 10 you could call that good, for the situation you found yourself in, bad overall.

 

[Scouse]

Don't disagree with you on that analogy @Wij but what's really horrendous about that analogy is we allow the very existence of trains that have two tracks, both of which can end up killing people.

 

[Wij]

Don't disagree with you on that analogy @Wij but what's really horrendous about that analogy is we allow the very existence of trains that have two tracks, both of which can end up killing people.

In this case though Putin built the track. Save your horror for him.

 

[Scouse]

In this case though Putin built the track.

Fully reject. As can be seen from my posts above.

We build these tracks together.

 

[Wij]

Fully reject. As can be seen from my posts above.

We build these checks together.

Nobody forced him to invade.

 

[Scouse]

Nobody forced him to invade.

I don't care to frame the conversation in terms of the current unfolding idiocy.

I'm very clearly talking about why humans fall foul of the same idiocy and have done for generations, and what can we do about that.

 

[Aoami]

Yep, why would you talk about the current war between Ukraine and Russia in a thread called "War with Russia".

 

[Scouse]

It's clear what I'm discussing with @DaGaffer & @Wij, @Aoami.

I know it's a stretch for you, but try to keep up.

 

[Aoami]

It's clear what I'm discussing with @DaGaffer & @Wij, @Aoami.

I know it's a stretch for you, but try to keep up.

Yes, it's clear you're discussing something completely fucking irrelevant to the thread.

 

[Embattle]

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/t391pz/russian_soldiers_surrendering_to_ukraine_will/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

So not much then

 

[Gwadien]

So not much then

Think it works out at like $48k or something, so probably a few years income for most Russians.

Yes, it's clear you're discussing something completely fucking irrelevant to the thread.

I don't think it's irrelevant, I was watching some live feed camera of Kyiv last night and reading the comments, the majority of them consisted of either 'Fuck Russia' or 'Fuck America'.

I think it's important that we show the Russian people that our opposition is not about them, it's about their leadership, and that we do care about the losses of life either side, because by celebrating the death count of the Russian soldiers isn't going to make things more cordial, it's going to keep generating dislike between the West and Russia.

This is why I think it's also important that someone in some important role acknowledges our dodgy past 20 years or so, and accepts that the amount of civilian deaths caused by the West is not acceptable, otherwise it's too easy for the Russian propaganda machine to show our coverage (or lack of) of our concern over the deaths of Afghan/Iraqi civilians versus our outpouring of grief for the Ukranians, and celebration of Russian deaths.

Zelenskyy seems to get that judging by his recent videos.

 

[Scouse]

Yes, it's clear you're discussing something completely fucking irrelevant to the thread.

You think war, and why we continue to perpetuate it, and what we need to start doing to prevent it happening, is not relevant to a thread about war?

Okayyy.

 

[DaGaffer]

The blame for the deaths of Russian soldiers should be laid at Putin. Not the people being put in a kill-or-be-killed situation.

Ultimately the defence of killing people because you're being threatened if you don't fight was put to bed after WW2. You can't kill civilians intentionally and only obeying orders (even if threatened) isn't allowed. Its why what Bomber Command did during the War is a war crime now and wasn't then.

Of course ultimately this is all at Putin's door, but in law, not so much.

 

[Scouse]

only obeying orders (even if threatened) isn't allowed

That's really really shit for people who are being threatened for their lives.

We need a completely different way of thinking and interacting.

 

[Aoami]

View: https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1498323166049054722


What is this "denazification" he keeps going on about?

 

[DaGaffer]

Think it works out at like $48k or something, so probably a few years income for most Russians.



I don't think it's irrelevant, I was watching some live feed camera of Kyiv last night and reading the comments, the majority of them consisted of either 'Fuck Russia' or 'Fuck America'.

I think it's important that we show the Russian people that our opposition is not about them, it's about their leadership, and that we do care about the losses of life either side, because by celebrating the death count of the Russian soldiers isn't going to make things more cordial, it's going to keep generating dislike between the West and Russia.

This is why I think it's also important that someone in some important role acknowledges our dodgy past 20 years or so, and accepts that the amount of civilian deaths caused by the West is not acceptable, otherwise it's too easy for the Russian propaganda machine to show our coverage (or lack of) of our concern over the deaths of Afghan/Iraqi civilians versus our outpouring of grief for the Ukranians, and celebration of Russian deaths.

Zelenskyy seems to get that judging by his recent videos.

It was worth a lot more yesterday and will be worth a lot less tomorrow.

 

[DaGaffer]

That's really really shit for people who are being threatened for their lives.

We need a completely different way of thinking and interacting.

And what would the alternative be? "I'm sorry for setting fire to that busload of nuns your honour, but I was in fear for my own life so that's alright isn't it"?

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1498323166049054722


What is this "denazification" he keeps going on about?

He will call anyone he doesn't like Nazis. In other words, Putin gets to choose who is in charge of Ukraine, not Ukrainians.

 

[Scouse]

And what would the alternative be? "I'm sorry for setting fire to that busload of nuns your honour, but I was in fear for my own life so that's alright isn't it"?

"I'm sorry I killed these people whilst I had a gun to my head and the threat that my family would suffer or die.

So I killed them. I have nightmares about it. My wife left me and took the kids because I'm not the same person any more."

"Well son. It was illegal. Jail/death for you. You should have let yourself get shot in the head. The law says so".


Fan, fucking, tastic.


Literally every example is illustrative of the need to restructure our societies so humans don't do this to each other.

 

[DaGaffer]

"I'm sorry I killed these people whilst I had a gun to my head and the threat that my family would suffer or die.

So I killed them. I have nightmares about it. My wife left me and took the kids because I'm not the same person any more."

"Well son. It was illegal. Jail/death for you. You should have let yourself get shot in the head. The law says so".


Fan, fucking, tastic.


Literally every example is illustrative of the need to restructure our societies so humans don't do this to each other.

You're really not thinking it through. If such a thing was an acceptable defence it could be used everywhere. Ultimately you're in control of one thing in such a situation, your own life. So the moral question is...what do you do with it?

 

[Wij]

"I'm sorry I killed these people whilst I had a gun to my head and the threat that my family would suffer or die.

So I killed them. I have nightmares about it. My wife left me and took the kids because I'm not the same person any more."

"Well son. It was illegal. Jail/death for you. You should have let yourself get shot in the head. The law says so".


Fan, fucking, tastic.


Literally every example is illustrative of the need to restructure our societies so humans don't do this to each other.

You have to deal with moral decisions in the society you find yourself in. Sure if we were lesbian wood-elves whose trees provided all the sustenance we needed and all disputes were settled with ritualised boob-play then we wouldn't find ourselves in these situations. But we're not.

 

[Yoni]

The Russian soldiers have a horrible choice still - either kill innocent people or defect and risk being shot by their own instead. It is really horrible. Any loss of life is terrible but the way things work today if you are in Ukraine and you have to defend your home then you are more justified in taking action against Russian soldiers who have been ordered to kill you. I do not like cheering at death of young people no matter where they are in the world and this is no different.

 

[caLLous]

This'll calm things down.

 

[Wij]

Moscow stock exchange to be closed until 5th of March apparently.

 

[Aoami]

Ukraine officially applied for EU membership now.