United States Corrupt Twattery

[Scouse]

Again there is utterly no reason without cast iron protection agreements for them to agree to anything

You mean, other than the reason than they'd get killed if they didn't agree?

I guess in @Embattle's world nobody ever agreed to anything when they had a gun pointed at their head.

 

[Scouse]

A telling statistic I just read: the number of voters for Trump in this election was unchanged from 2020, but the number of voters for Kamala was between 8-13M *less* than Biden got. Given that you can't really say Trump won, it's Kamala and the Democrats that lost, and lost badly. They only have themselves to blame.

They do. And they need to look at why that is the case.

 

[Scouse]

It's shocking tbh because, based on nothing other than the atmospheres at their respective rallies over the last month, you'd say it was the Democrats who were the more energised to vote. That he won the popular vote as well was a total surprise. So now he's going to control basically every branch of government (definitely the Senate, not sure whether the House has been decided yet) and the Supreme Court, which he will no doubt tip further in his favour as a couple of the more liberal judges are probably going to retire during his term.

To be honest m8, I'm not shocked in the least.

Is anyone here really that surprised? It's felt like a Trump victory for a long time now for me.

 

[Embattle]

You mean, other than the reason than they'd get killed if they didn't agree?

I guess in @Embattle's world nobody ever agreed to anything when they had a gun pointed at their head.

Again you being a repetitive cunt as usual won't cause me to continue repeating what I've already stated after this post.

You don't understand the issue now because you never did in the past when we covered the subject in the Russia thread where you pretty much said the same rubbish, there is no point in making a short term peace with a country and man who are untrustworthy on a fundamental level, a country that has committed assorted atrocities against the Ukrainian people recently and even in the distant past when it was part of USSR.

 

[Gwadien]

I spoke to a Ukrainian kid today after feel sorry for them at my place cos of the Trump victory and Ukraine being rolled by Russia, he basically said (and id imagine it comes from parents too) that he wanted Trump to win because it'd bring the war to an end and they can go home.

Got me thinking - perhaps not all Ukrainians fully support the war effort anymore, I wonder if this feeling of acceptance of their place as one of the many constant victims on the planet is more widespread and the love of democracy and freedom is a Western pair of glasses that we like to put on when we look at the Ukrainian situation.

Sure their leadership would say otherwise but that's only because they're so personally invested, but for your average Joe? I dunno.

Free democracies are on the decline and authoritarian countries are on the increase, many of which voted themselves into it.

 

[Bodhi]

A telling statistic I just read: the number of voters for Trump in this election was unchanged from 2020, but the number of voters for Kamala was between 8-13M *less* than Biden got. Given that you can't really say Trump won, it's Kamala and the Democrats that lost, and lost badly. They only have themselves to blame.

Worth noting at this point California still have about 15 million votes to count

x.com

x.com

 

[Scouse]

You seem to be missing the point mate:

there is no point in making a short term peace

They'll have no choice.

If the US withdraw support their choices will be:

1) Give up some land, short term peace that Russia might well break.
2) Destruction.

If there's another choice, something I'm missing (you say I don't understand it) then I'd love you to tell me what it is.

 

[Lamp]

I for one am delighted the leader of the free world is a convicted sex offender who paints his face orange, who thinks people in America are eating cats and dogs for dinner, that he can stop the Ukraine war in one day, and that Elon Musk personally developed the "heat proof paint" on his space rockets.

 

[Jupitus]

Pie nails it, as usual:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0eq7VNCcYY&ab_channel=JonathanPie

 

[Scouse]

90% with what he says there @Jupitus. I'd go a little further in places tbh.

 

[MYstIC G]

It's shocking tbh because, based on nothing other than the atmospheres at their respective rallies over the last month, you'd say it was the Democrats who were the more energised to vote. That he won the popular vote as well was a total surprise. So now he's going to control basically every branch of government (definitely the Senate, not sure whether the House has been decided yet) and the Supreme Court, which he will no doubt tip further in his favour as a couple of the more liberal judges are probably going to retire during his term.

Echo chambers be echoing...

I've not been to the US, so know nothing of the mood there but this feels like the Democrats played the "do the right thing" card and got smacked in the face by the combination of the "fuck you I won't do what you tell me crowd" combined with the fact they delivered absolutely nothing for their own target demographic during their last 4 years, in fact they probably let so many things slip they lost the audience.

 

[Embattle]

Inflation becomes more serious the more you pay for stuff directly out of pocket, but then they might be in for even more of a shock if Trump follows through on his tariff plan.

 

[Tom]

Ukraine is really an issue for Europe to solve. Letting Putin keep what he's taken isn't a viable option - he'll just take more in future. Either by the ballot box (because residents in Russian-annexed territory will mysteriously vote Putin's way) or by more force.

Eventually Europe is going to have to put a stop to it.

 

[Embattle]

While the US has indeed provided the highest $ value it isn't so good when you compare it at a GDP level where all the closer and slightly smaller European nations lead:

Bilateral aid to Ukraine by country GDP 2024 | Statista

Estonia and Denmark had the highest ratio of bilateral support to Ukraine to donor GDP as of February2024. Poland ranked sixth by GDP share of aid to Ukraine.

www.statista.com

The actual problem might come if the US denied other countries the right to transfer arms to Ukraine.

 

[Scouse]

Ukraine is really an issue for Europe to solve.

I agree. But we're not going to solve it without US help. It's just unthinkable for Europe to take up that financial slack - and I don't think we've the weapons manufacturing capacity.

If Trump pulls the plug we're back to what I said above.

Unless I'm missing something?

While the US has indeed provided the highest $ value it isn't so good when you compare it at a GDP level where all the closer and slightly smaller European nations lead:

Bilateral aid to Ukraine by country GDP 2024 | Statista

Estonia and Denmark had the highest ratio of bilateral support to Ukraine to donor GDP as of February2024. Poland ranked sixth by GDP share of aid to Ukraine.

www.statista.com

This view is kinda pointless. It's where the actual military and $ assistance comes from that matters - and that's the US.

And this:

The actual problem might come if the US denied other countries the right to transfer arms to Ukraine.

Dunno where that comes from? What makes you think the US will do that?

For a start - they wouldn't have to. If they withdraw support, Ukraine is fucked. We couldn't transfer enough $ and weaponry even if we wanted to. It'd be like pissing in the wind.


I wish @Wij was about - be interesting to get his take on all of this.

 

[DaGaffer]

Interesting article in the Graun on the Democrat campaign's "men problem"

‘A fatal miscalculation’: masculinity researcher Richard Reeves on why Democrats lost young men

Kamala Harris and Tim Walz had an opportunity to win a demographic that swung toward Trump – but they didn’t fight for it, says the author

www.theguardian.com

This bit in particular stuck out for me:

"The danger is Democrats believe they just need to double down on attacks on patriarchy and toxic masculinity. That would be disastrous."

Which is exactly what they'll do.

 

[Scouse]

Interesting article in the Graun on the Democrat campaign's "men problem"

‘A fatal miscalculation’: masculinity researcher Richard Reeves on why Democrats lost young men

Kamala Harris and Tim Walz had an opportunity to win a demographic that swung toward Trump – but they didn’t fight for it, says the author

www.theguardian.com

This bit in particular stuck out for me:

"The danger is Democrats believe they just need to double down on attacks on patriarchy and toxic masculinity. That would be disastrous."

Which is exactly what they'll do.

It's exactly what most of the grauniad is already doing.

It's a painful read a lot of the time.

 

[Raven]

It's not complicated.

Stupid people fell for the absolute avalanche of bullshit. Everything had moved onto a new item of bullshit before the last had time to settle. A relentless campaign of cheap tacky gimmicks, faux outrage and conspiracy theory. With an absolutely huge dollop of outright criminality.

Dems did absolutely nothing to combat it, any of it. Just stood there pointing at women.

 

[Scouse]

I'd say they bought into it and had their own schtic.

Unfortunately their bullshit was less appealing.

Either way. Not a lot will change.

 

[caLLous]

It's probably just a massive coincidence that Trump is appointing Project 2025 authors to cabinet positions, seeing as he didn't even know it existed.

 

[Scouse]

It's probably just a massive coincidence that Trump is appointing Project 2025 authors to cabinet positions, seeing as he didn't even know it existed.

They're Heritage Foundation - about 50% of Ronald Regan's policy came from that lot. Trump said he wouldn't implement the whackjob shit - but that doesn't mean he won't implement a fair chunk of it.

I think the calling Trump an "existential threat to democracy" shit will get shown up for what it is - the Democrats mud-slinging whilst not putting their own house in order.

The voters in America don't believe the Dems represented their interests - and that's a fair assessment. They ditched the working class, played identity politics and didn't materially change anything for the poor. People wanted change - the Democrats were clearly more of the same, so they got kicked out.

They won't get what they want under Trump either - but the Democrat's loss isn't because Trump is a giant liar. It's because the Democrats weren't offering anything like what the American public wanted. End of...

 

[Ormorof]

played identity politics

What does this mean?

 

[MYstIC G]

Interesting article in the Graun on the Democrat campaign's "men problem"

‘A fatal miscalculation’: masculinity researcher Richard Reeves on why Democrats lost young men

Kamala Harris and Tim Walz had an opportunity to win a demographic that swung toward Trump – but they didn’t fight for it, says the author

www.theguardian.com

This bit in particular stuck out for me:

"The danger is Democrats believe they just need to double down on attacks on patriarchy and toxic masculinity. That would be disastrous."

Which is exactly what they'll do.

Isn't that just modern culture though? The belief that appeasing the minority will deliver you the majority.

 

[Scouse]

What does this mean?

Ultimately? Essentialism.

@Wij could tell you all about that. And why it's wrong.

 

[Bodhi]

I think y'all are looking at this a bit too deeply - Trump is currently President Elect because Kamala was an awful candidate, installed on a Democrat voter base who had no say in the issue.

Adding Walz and his slightly crazy wife to the ticket just made things worse.