Umm Questions about relic tactics.

[xajorkith]

"An alarm Clock Raid"
A raid whereby an army sets an alarm clock to an early time so that they can get on the server before their enemy and take the relic from NPC's, thus invading army doesn't have to fight people.

"A Ninja Raid"
A raid where stealthers infiltrate an enemy realm and take a relic from NPC's without touching any keeps or outer two doors of Relic Keep, this gives the defenders no time to react, thus invading army doesn't have to fight people.

"logging off tactic"
An army in dribs and drabs logs off in an enemy realm so that they can later log on at a designated time, this gives attacking army more surprise thus invading army (potentially) doesn't have to fight people.

1) Why is a Ninja Raid any better than an Alarm Clock raid?

2) Are not all three tactics just lame?

3) In other threads posters say Ninja Raids are classed as unfair and will not be allowed in 1.64. Having read 1.63 and 1.64 notes I see no reference's to this tactic being frowned upon, are Ninja Raids frowned upon?

4) If your realm has vastly more numbers why is there a need to do a Ninja Raid?

5) If Ninja Raids are valid tactics (and it does allow stealthers some more fun) is not the current balance of wall climbers unfair? Perhaps Rangers should get the wall climbing skill and the Minstrels should loose it?

Albion has 53% of all level 50 Wall Climbers. (226 Infiltrator + 192 Minstrels = 418)
Midgard has 31% of all level 50 Wall Climbers. (243 Shadowblades)
Hibernia has 16% of all level 50 Wall Climbers. (125 NightShades)

Just curious.

 

[Herbal Remedy]

1) because there was 700+ mids on when i raided if u hadnt sat at svasud for ten + minutes u couldve stopped me

2) getting up at 10 am on a sunday and taking more people to relics than the other realm has online is faaaaaaaaaaaaar more lame than doing it when theres 2000-2500 on the server

3) certain uber guards will no longer leave the inside of the relic keep thus making ninja raid impossible or nearly so

4) Because im not sitting in a relic while 400 mids march down svasud road and giving them minimum 30 mins to get to svasud

5) savages are unfair lifes a bitch deal with it

 

[Denisée]

Originally posted by xajorkith
"A Ninja Raid"
A raid where stealthers infiltrate an enemy realm and take a relic from NPC's without touching any keeps or outer two doors of Relic Keep, this gives the defenders no time to react, thus invading army doesn't have to fight people.

3) In other threads posters say Ninja Raids are classed as unfair and will not be allowed in 1.64. Having read 1.63 and 1.64 notes I see no reference's to this tactic being frowned upon, are Ninja Raids frowned upon?

Camelot Herald

===================================


Dark Age of Camelot

Version 1.64 Release Notes

Tuesday, August 12, 2003


===================================


Relic Keep Guard Changes

- There is a small change to how some guards will now handle relic raids. For every Relic Keep, the interior doors will now be guarded by named guards from the keep that is closest to the other Relic Keep in that realm. For example, the interior doors of Castle Excalibur are now being guarded by Hurbury Knights. These inner door guards have been given strict instructions to not leave the courtyard at any time, and they also cannot be damaged by players outside of the area they protect.

 

[ardamels]

Herbal's raid must have been incredibly hard to organize, it was on prime time and that kind of tactics is easily dealt with if ppl just get to know of it in time. 1 FG can waylay such a plan but we did not, cuz we were not prepared but we should've been. I think this one deserves credit.

 

[Kagato.]

A full frontal assault in prime time even with corpse summoners is quite simply doomed to failure no matter which realm is attacking or defending. The combination of super-guards/spellcasters at the keeps, bindstones in portal keeps and the 3 ram per door limit now even before you take into consideration the enemy realm players means such blunt but noble raids are impossible. Thats why the realms have to look for new and different tactics.

 

[Ekydus]

Best tactic:

Crash the server and get a free day.

 

[akula]

Originally posted by xajorkith


Albion has 53% of all level 50 Wall Climbers. (226 Infiltrator + 192 Minstrels = 418)
Midgard has 31% of all level 50 Wall Climbers. (243 Shadowblades)
Hibernia has 16% of all level 50 Wall Climbers. (125 NightShades)

which is kinda funny given that we supposedly have lotsa SBs leaving game :S

 

[El_Bandito]

ninja raids arenot laame your just stupid ninjas are coolest than any of yoursand its clever to use ninja tacitcz people who says that its lame just cannot be thinking of ninns DAoC is getting boreing beecos goa, whos are teh stupider of all, wont put japanin to the game

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by El_Bandito
ninja raids arenot laame your just stupid ninjas are coolest than any of yoursand its clever to use ninja tacitcz people who says that its lame just cannot be thinking of ninns DAoC is getting boreing beecos goa, whos are teh stupider of all, wont put japanin to the game

ok before any mid posts the whole of alb disowns who ever this tard is cheers

 

[loxleyhood]

Originally posted by El_Bandito
ninja raids arenot laame your just stupid ninjas are coolest than any of yoursand its clever to use ninja tacitcz people who says that its lame just cannot be thinking of ninns DAoC is getting boreing beecos goa, whos are teh stupider of all, wont put japanin to the game

Hmmmm, quite.

 

[noaim]

Morning-raids are lamer than Ninja-raids cause at morning-raids, the realm being attacked most of the time _cant_ defend, while at ninja-raids, its a matter of defending fast enough.

I wasnt home when this raid took place, but I have to assume it was a really well planned and executed raid, so grats and hats off to those who did it.

 

[ilienwyn]

Originally posted by Ekydus
Best tactic:

Crash the server and get a free day.

 

[Draylor]

Originally posted by xajorkith
1) Why is a Ninja Raid any better than an Alarm Clock raid?

Well info from scouts indicated there were something like 100 mids getting ready to move when the (3rd - obviously) door was still at around 75%. Ok so its very difficult to get that number of people organised & grouped instantly, but it was possible to get a decent sized army to the relic keep before the relic was picked up.

Compared to 'alarm clock raids' when there are ~100 people total in the realm being attacked at the time, giving the defenders no chance at all.

'Ninja' raids are better/fairer - but only just

2) Are not all three tactics just lame?

Agreed 100%

In the unlikely event that someone cares - look back at old patch notes for all changes related to keep/relic raids. Everything is aimed at slowing them down.

What Mythic want is for relic raids to REQUIRE what we always try to avoid - the long (hours long) 200+ a side fight over various keeps finally resulting in an attempt on the relic keep.

The server can handle that now - just. The PCs the vast majority of people play on cant. So we continue to try to take relics as fast as possible undetected. I cant see it changing - even after the changes in 1.64.

We had a relic raid like that once, but since it involved huge numbers of bug abusing necros & the relic finally being taken in the middle of the night its not going to be agreed upon as 'fair'

4) If your realm has vastly more numbers why is there a need to do a Ninja Raid?

If someone that played hib asked this it'd be worth an answer. Given the size of the keep take/retake and relic raiding/defence armies alb and mid have put together in last few months (basically same size) theres no question to answer.

5) If Ninja Raids are valid tactics (and it does allow stealthers some more fun) is not the current balance of wall climbers unfair? Perhaps Rangers should get the wall climbing skill and the Minstrels should loose it?

Well using the advantages our realm has is surely just common sense?

Alb has 3 stealth classes compared to 2 in Mid/Hib. After giving wall climb to minstrels (silly move really) its rather difficult for Mythic to take it away, or balance it in any other way.

Mids would have no problem doing the same thing if (or should I say when - its just a matter of time now) they try to round up enough of the active SBs at one time.

 

[loxleyhood]

I think ninja raids is an intelligent and developed tactic with an unfortunately stupid name. Much better than lets take them before they wake up tactics.

 

[old.Lethul]

there is a reason those raids wont work as easy next patch xajor. mythic considers them unfair to (ninja that is) <-- bleh

edit:they make guards inside the 2 outer doors stand still there until door 2 is breached.. so they cant be pulled

edit: wtf, everything i say has been said.. ignore my post

 

[old.m0000]

Originally posted by xajorkith
Perhaps Rangers should get the wall climbing skill and the Minstrels should loose it?

mabye you should shut the fuck up?

 

[old.Lethul]

Re: Re: Umm Questions about relic tactics.

Originally posted by old.m0000
mabye you should shut the fuck up?

maybe minstrels should loose stealth cause hunters only have studded so they can move "silent while stealted", chain makes noise(oljud) etc.... or that atleast what it said when i made my hunter

 

[loxleyhood]

Maybe hunter's pets shouldn't chase people half way across hibernia?

 

[xajorkith]

Re: Re: Umm Questions about relic tactics.

Originally posted by Draylor


If someone that played hib asked this it'd be worth an answer. Given the size of the keep take/retake and relic raiding/defence armies alb and mid have put together in last few months (basically same size) theres no question to answer.

Draylor what a cool intelligent post I pretty much agree with everything you have wrote

(Tilda or other mod could you remove old.m0000 post please as it's not appropriate for this thread.)

When I wrote the post I was trying to be impartial, I did consider deleting my sig. It is the Hibs I feel sorrier for hence my idea to give the Hib Ranger wall climbing. I think it would be very difficult for Hibs to mount a Ninja raid; either all Realms should have the facility or none.

BTW the mids used Ninja tactics to take the Alb relics on an early morning raid, so I agree Mids can mount an attack

 

[kenshee-himura]

Originally posted by El_Bandito
ninja raids arenot laame your just stupid ninjas are coolest than any of yoursand its clever to use ninja tacitcz people who says that its lame just cannot be thinking of ninns DAoC is getting boreing beecos goa, whos are teh stupider of all, wont put japanin to the game

What??

 

[rg-zorena]

Originally posted by El_Bandito
ninja raids arenot laame your just stupid ninjas are coolest than any of yoursand its clever to use ninja tacitcz people who says that its lame just cannot be thinking of ninns DAoC is getting boreing beecos goa, whos are teh stupider of all, wont put japanin to the game

lol ^^

 

[hercules-df]

Originally posted by xajorkith
"An alarm Clock Raid"
A raid whereby an army sets an alarm clock to an early time so that they can get on the server before their enemy and take the relic from NPC's, thus invading army doesn't have to fight people.

"A Ninja Raid"
A raid where stealthers infiltrate an enemy realm and take a relic from NPC's without touching any keeps or outer two doors of Relic Keep, this gives the defenders no time to react, thus invading army doesn't have to fight people.

"logging off tactic"
An army in dribs and drabs logs off in an enemy realm so that they can later log on at a designated time, this gives attacking army more surprise thus invading army (potentially) doesn't have to fight people.

1) Why is a Ninja Raid any better than an Alarm Clock raid?

2) Are not all three tactics just lame?

3) In other threads posters say Ninja Raids are classed as unfair and will not be allowed in 1.64. Having read 1.63 and 1.64 notes I see no reference's to this tactic being frowned upon, are Ninja Raids frowned upon?

4) If your realm has vastly more numbers why is there a need to do a Ninja Raid?

5) If Ninja Raids are valid tactics (and it does allow stealthers some more fun) is not the current balance of wall climbers unfair? Perhaps Rangers should get the wall climbing skill and the Minstrels should loose it?

Albion has 53% of all level 50 Wall Climbers. (226 Infiltrator + 192 Minstrels = 418)
Midgard has 31% of all level 50 Wall Climbers. (243 Shadowblades)
Hibernia has 16% of all level 50 Wall Climbers. (125 NightShades)

Just curious.

:bore:

 

[hercules-df]

Originally posted by El_Bandito
ninja raids arenot laame your just stupid ninjas are coolest than any of yoursand its clever to use ninja tacitcz people who says that its lame just cannot be thinking of ninns DAoC is getting boreing beecos goa, whos are teh stupider of all, wont put japanin to the game

Spanish crazys 4 teh win

 

[Aussie-]

oh no, they are gonna protect the inner door, the drama, the drama

 

[makgsnake]

we love j00 herbal :kiss2:

 

[herjulf]

first of all weekends are THE most suitable and most populated part of the week.
And 1000AM is NOT friggin early, it is not primetime neither but it is atleast DAYTIME and there are a helluvalot more then 100ppl online then sum git posted above.

Ninjaraid imo is friggin chicken raid, and is not better then nightraids imo. nomatter what realm performs it.
This particular raid was not only a ninja it was a logout/ninja combo raid.

It was also mentioned 100Ppl in svasud when inner door was 75%, how did they know that? And how "unusual" is there with 100Ppl in svasud 1530ish prime zergmain time.

i would estimate 5-10:00 min after the official RELICRAID alert in /as was issued the relic was neutral.
No, grps were immidiatly sent to amg but the relic had already passed at that point.

I /applause the albs for actually pulling through a primetime raid.
I do however have no respect for the actual way it was done.

Well the damage is done, Mythic clearly didnt intend for it to work that way thus they change the way the uberguards act. (1.64)

For good and for worse, it also mean "terror" raids are easier, to knock down relic keep doors to make life costly for the other realm.

A respectraid is this: with troop transport from (X)TK then a take of as many keeps nescessary to be able to take 3 doors on relic keep. Thus giving the opposing realm a "fair" chance to defend/retake the relic.

Hopefully the relics wont be reclaimed from alb the same way now. To return the favour.
I am shure it will be done in a very calculated way by mids favourite dorf.

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by herjulf
first of all weekends are THE most suitable and most populated part of the week.
And 1000AM is NOT friggin early, it is not primetime neither but it is atleast DAYTIME and there are a helluvalot more then 100ppl online then sum git posted above.

http://camelot-europe.goa.com/stats/stats.php?lng=en stats for last saturday 700 online at 10 am (gmt) say 270 albs 230 mids 100 hibs u bring 200 mids to relic keep alb has 270 online total of all lvl we mount a decent defnce how? 8 pm gmt 2000+ online 800-900 albs 600-700 mids i bring 200 to relic u can bring 200 for 700 easy with monster mid alliances u have a hell of a lot eiasier to defend than at 10 am so no 10 am isnt fucking primetime

Ninjaraid imo is friggin chicken raid, and is not better then nightraids imo. nomatter what realm performs it.
This particular raid was not only a ninja it was a logout/ninja combo raid.

See above chump better a ninja raid where u can defend if your fast enough than one where u cant defend at all

It was also mentioned 100Ppl in svasud when inner door was 75%, how did they know that?

Scouts plus mids sitting outside svasud to be counted plus shit loads of lag = pretty big zerg u had

And how "unusual" is there with 100Ppl in svasud 1530ish prime zergmain time.

i would estimate 5-10:00 min after the official RELICRAID alert in /as was issued the relic was neutral.

10 minutes during which over 100 mids sat with the thumb up there arse at svasud if youd moved you had a chance of stopping me

No, grps were immidiatly sent to amg but the relic had already passed at that point.

10-15 minutes u had to get to amg Once again indescison and waiting to be lead by ardramel etc cost you here

I /applause the albs for actually pulling through a primetime raid.
I do however have no respect for the actual way it was done.

dont want your respect want you relics

Well the damage is done, Mythic clearly didnt intend for it to work that way thus they change the way the uberguards act. (1.64)

Can and will will be done in 1.64 just requires a change of tactics

For good and for worse, it also mean "terror" raids are easier, to knock down relic keep doors to make life costly for the other realm.

A respectraid is this: with troop transport from (X)TK then a take of as many keeps nescessary to be able to take 3 doors on relic keep. Thus giving the opposing realm a "fair" chance to defend/retake the relic.

can only be done during non prime time if id taken a full 30-40 mins bashing door said 100-200 mids u had at svasud wouldve caused me a real fking head ache at the relic. The point of the raid was speed giving u minimum chance to react but u had a chance to stop me unlike any realm has of stopping a 10 am raid

Hopefully the relics wont be reclaimed from alb the same way now. To return the favour.
I am shure it will be done in a very calculated way by mids favourite dorf.

 

[phule_gubben]

well well, albs have said it b4. Fighting NPC guards over relics are just pure lameness and just to rub it in they did execute one themselves.

:lol:

 

[noaim]

Funny Herbal...how was this raid better than when we raided hibbies? I remember you telling us it wasnt primetime yada yada yada. At least we popped keeps, took all doors down etc etc. Still you flamed about it being a lame raid. So tell me, why was this raid better?

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by phule_gubben
well well, albs have said it b4. Fighting NPC guards over relics are just pure lameness and just to rub it in they did execute one themselves.

:lol:

u had a chance to defend you where to slow 10 am raid not even a chance to defend