Troll in Albion [Conclusion]

[kr0n]

Originally posted by Murcalumis


Okay... so the fact he reported people (he reported you, didn't he?) for abusing bugs or cheating in some way makes him a dishonest player? Ha! I'd do the same, quite frankly. If I saw a Celt running around Albion, I'd report him. That makes me a dishonest player? Hmm... think about it. If that's not beyond you, that is.

Well, I didnt mean that really. You just dont understand. Im talking about the gray area, things that are prohibited but loosely, things that people do but still are prohibited. Small things, harmless unless misused.

Listen to the man, SFX.

Sticking up to your retarded cousin will only make you look bad.

Sicko is always much fun too. Unproductive posts with insults! Thats more like it boy!

 

[kr0n]

Originally posted by Turamber

What your kin [(C) Laird] did is a CRIMINAL matter. It is undefensible. In just having his subby cancelled he got off lightly. Or would you prefer that the police had been to see him and kept him over night in a cell?

Puuh puuh... Laff @ naivety.

 

[Murcalumis]

Originally posted by kr0n
Well, I didnt mean that really. You just dont understand. Im talking about the gray area, things that are prohibited but loosely, things that people do but still are prohibited. Small things, harmless unless misused.

The way I see it, breaking the CoC is breaking the CoC. Either you broke the rules and hence deserve to be reported, or you didn't break the rules and there's nothing to report. Who are you to say that they're harmless? Who are you to say what's a small offence and what's a big one?

 

[kr0n]

Well, I can say what GOA thinks is minor and what GOA thinks is major. Its very obvious.

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by walkerb


sorry but who are you to say who we should show our respects to?
people posting here are posting there own opinions not the opinions of our guild etc.

If you have no respect for the person who formed your guild then god help you. Without Gideon's way of doing things you'd not have the fearsome reputation you now enjoy, and wouldn't be the guild all the 'leet' wish to join. Many people have remarked how your guild in general has declined since he hung up his <insert clerical attire here>.

Actively posting comments supporting a criminal and deriding your guild founder? Please.

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by kr0n


Puuh puuh... Laff @ naivety.

Yeeees, I can't say that I laugh at your attitude though - it is genuinely very disturbing.

 

[Coren]

Originally posted by Turamber


If you have no respect for the person who formed your guild then god help you. Without Gideon's way of doing things you'd not have the fearsome reputation you now enjoy, and wouldn't be the guild all the 'leet' wish to join. Many people have remarked how your guild in general has declined since he hung up his <insert clerical attire here>.

Actively posting comments supporting a criminal and deriding your guild founder? Please.

Actively turning this into another anti-sotl campaign based on seeing 2 (!) members disagree with Gid being the one making this a public matter and not supporting kr0n's actions in any way? Please.

And SFXman: stop digging yourself even deeper.

 

[andrilyn]

Originally posted by Turamber
Or would you prefer that the police had been to see him and kept him over night in a cell?

That would never happen since there is/was no hard evidence, that’s why I always keep logs of everything (also using an internet logging proggy that monitors everything).

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by Danyan

Did Brannor give you permission? If not then it's hacking. By analagy - just because someone leaves their house unlocked doesn't give you license to steal all their stuff.

You can move in and have a big squat though.

If someone leaves an anonymous FTP running on their computer, isit illegal to download any files unless they give you permission?

Dunno how kr0n saw the shared files, but surely if its like above, then its within the law?

 

[andrilyn]

Originally posted by Turamber


If you have no respect for the person who formed your guild then god help you. Without Gideon's way of doing things you'd not have the fearsome reputation you now enjoy, and wouldn't be the guild all the 'leet' wish to join. Many people have remarked how your guild in general has declined since he hung up his <insert clerical attire here>.

Actively posting comments supporting a criminal and deriding your guild founder? Please.

Turamber... Gideon is a great leader but in this thread some people just said they didn’t agree to his opinion about telling who "hacked" Brannors account, you are now actually saying if you don’t agree with your guild master about 1 thing you are actually against him.

 

[andrilyn]

Originally posted by Meatballs
Dunno how kr0n saw the shared files, but surely if its like above, then its within the law?

As far as I know there are no written rules about hacking, heard they are planning to make those rules in 2004.
But could be different in the UK...

 

[umilard]

Stop being stupid meatballs do you really think Brannor was sharing his accountinformation on an ftp?

And Turamber, who from sotl has been posting here "supporting" kr0n? I for one think he's a muppet and i'm glad he got banned, kinda sad that he's still playing on the pvp tho.

And _I_ think Gideon did the right thing by posting here, if someone else don't think it's ok it's their opinion, and i'm ok with that. It's _NOT_ the same thing as "supporting" kr0n. Everyone who supports what he did will be a twat in my eyes, period.

But tbh, i'm surprised people didn't find this out earlier, personally i think the hints from brannor was kinda obvious, but maybe it was just becouse i knew already

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by Coren


Actively turning this into another anti-sotl campaign based on seeing 2 (!) members disagree with Gid being the one making this a public matter and not supporting kr0n's actions in any way? Please.

Not at all, just pointing out how important Revz is/was to SoTL. As for not supporting Kr0n's actions - what about the infamous line from Lochy earlier that Brannor 'deserved' to be hacked?!

 

[SoulFly Amarok]

tho, why should someone apologize from you if they didn't like you? -_-

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by umilard
Stop being stupid meatballs do you really think Brannor was sharing his accountinformation on an ftp?

I wasn't saying he was running an FTP server I said "like above", kr0n said:

Originally posted by kr0n
Oh, and PS, I didnt hack anyone. He shared his files to everyone. I just happened to scan him when I was bored.

Sharing files could be via FTP, Kazaa, Netbios or many many other things that I cant be arsed to think of.


You are stupid if you think people don't leave sensitive files in easy to reach places, it's been done in the past and it'll happen lots in the future.

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1064917.stm - MI5 agent 'left briefcase on train')

 

[SoulFly Amarok]

Originally posted by Turamber


Not at all, just pointing out how important Revz is/was to SoTL. As for not supporting Kr0n's actions - what about the infamous line from Lochy earlier that Brannor 'deserved' to be hacked?!

was.

edit: wrong quote:sleeping:

 

[Meatballs]

<confused>

 

[SoulFly Amarok]

Originally posted by Meatballs
<confused>

About ?

 

[Meatballs]

Originally posted by SoulFly Amarok



was.

what that meant

n/m you edited your quote now? Before you had umilard's post quoted?

 

[Lafala Arifel]

Windows is inherently not a secure system. If you want to be secure run a firewall, or use a hardware firewall (router/'nix box).

This is sad but true - I've learnt the hard way not to trust default Microsoft settings.

Here's a useful link for checking how many 'listening ports' your computer is broadcasting on the internet (also a good way to check your firewall configuration):
Shields Up

Reading through this thread, I've been quite surprised at a couple of the strange attitudes displayed here. Not towards the accussed or the victim (no one has seen any hard evidence, nor are we likely too, so I'm sitting on the fence ) but towards hacking in general. It's a 'real crime' that harms real people, not just part of a game that harms the odd DAoC account... And I don't see how the 'more damage could have been done but wasn't' argument is any kind of defence against the act. Speak to a victim of home theft - often they will tell you that the most unsettling part is not what they lost, but the fact that someone who wasn't meant to be there was prowling through their home and their belongings. Think about it, kiddies...

 

[Solid]

Hey least we got one good result out of this.

We got Albion's "finest" having a bar room brawl over their differences, aint his fun

 

[Cadire]

Somewhere along the line, a lot of people in this thread have just flipped into surreal mode.

When did this stop being an enjoyable game, and instead turn into an opportunity to grief others, either ingame or here?

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

I would call it human nature, Cadire.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Meatballs
You can move in and have a big squat though.

If someone leaves an anonymous FTP running on their computer, isit illegal to download any files unless they give you permission?

Dunno how kr0n saw the shared files, but surely if its like above, then its within the law?

Squatting is illegal.
It's illegal to access an FTP without permission, most anon FTP servers have a message when you log in telling you what you have permission to do.
If kr0n saw shared files and brannor did not give permission, then it is illegal.

I would point out that kr0n could be prosecuted and serve a jail sentence for this (IU think about 2 years is usual, but I'm not entirely sure), however the police rarely prosecute unless serious damage was caused due to the expense of actually carrying it through. Hacking is not a joke or something minor, it's a real crime, just as breaking into someone's house is a real crime.

 

[Freia]

Why are you making me bo this ?

I could say the same to you....
You can't open 65535 ports on your computer, the system can't handle that many.

That is exectly the number of ports that tcp can differentiate between, since port 0 is not valid afaik.

Reading email etc. only opens an outgoing connection, not a listening port, you cannot connect the the port someone is checking their mail on and send them data, it doesn't work like that.

No but you were implying that every single webserver and everysingle mailserver that you use daily is unsafe just because they have ports open and thats .. well... bs.

Windows is inherently not a secure system. If you want to be secure run a firewall, or use a hardware firewall (router/'nix box).

I'll give you that much. But the security bugs in windows are because they are blatantly ignoring security issues in stuff such as oooh msie and in exchange. Windows hardly run any services and thus can hardly be hacked through traditional remote exploits.

Freia, if someone wants to hack your machine, chances are they are going to hack you, whether you open 65535 ports or not.

I dare you all =)

It's incredibly difficult to safeguard against all possible attacks. Luckily most people that hack computers look for easy targets rather than trying to beat their way in through firewalls and the like.

Other way around. Most ppl that hack computers dont have a clue how to do if they come up against resistance, take it from me mkay? So they deliberately scan entire networks until they by accident stumble upon vulnerable targets instead of going up against stuff like home windows boxes that are very vulnerable to trojans but not to bufferoverflows etc. If they find tough ones, and really really want them, try to hack stuff close to it and try sniff up traffic going to that box to get passwords.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Freia
That is exectly the number of ports that tcp can differentiate between, since port 0 is not valid afaik.

It's the number of valid ports, yes, but not the number that can be opened simultaneously. Windows can only open 32768 sockets (and you need at least one socket per port) simulatanouesly, as for the various nix flavours, that entirely depends on how you configure them.

Originally posted by Freia
No but you were implying that every single webserver and everysingle mailserver that you use daily is unsafe just because they have ports open and thats .. well... bs.

Not BS, reality. The only safe computer is one that's switched off. Having said that, the chances of being hacked are low, in the same way the chances of having your house broken into are low. Doesn't mean it can't happen though.

Originally posted by Freia
Other way around. Most ppl that hack computers dont have a clue how to do if they come up against resistance, take it from me mkay? So they deliberately scan entire networks until they by accident stumble upon vulnerable targets instead of going up against stuff like home windows boxes that are very vulnerable to trojans but not to bufferoverflows etc. If they find tough ones, and really really want them, try to hack stuff close to it and try sniff up traffic going to that box to get passwords.

Isn't that what I said? I said they go for easy targets, you said they look for vulnerable targets, seems like the same thing to me...

 

[Jonaldo]

Originally posted by SFXman
Sure I too have thought that this was completely uncalled for, the whole act of hacking etc. I thought that it was even downright fucking idiotic most of the time considering how much work goes into levelling characters to 50 and then losing them for something like this?

The main thing that I had a problem with was nothing to do with daoc or whether he deleted Brannors characters or just played with them, it's the fact he broke the law in doing what he did.

If I knew I could go out, beat up one man, steal from another and then smash someone elses car up (i.e. COMMIT A CRIMINAL OFFENCE), then when the police come round they punish me by deleting my daoc characters I'd probably be as smug as Kr0n right now.... so in effect.. no.. deleting some data related to some computer game I really don't see as adequate punishment for hacking... hell if Brannor decided that now he doesn't feel secure enough and is paranoid he could probably make some kind of court case here but let's not take it too far

 

[Jenkz]

not going to get into the wrongs or rights of this, but from what i see kr0n has admitted to gaining access to brannors account without consent, and this was done via a trojan distributed over IRC.

kr0n is an operator in the #daoc.prydwen channel on quakenet (where i guess this took place). Blood in the light of kr0ns admission here do you think it is appropriate he be assisting the running the official IRC channel for prydwen on quakenet?

 

[Generic Poster]

Originally posted by Coren
Actively turning this into another anti-sotl campaign based on seeing 2 (!) members disagree with Gid being the one making this a public matter and not supporting kr0n's actions in any way? Please.

I don't see anyone turning this into an anti-sotl campaign. Quite the opposite, infact. If it helps you to understand this thread better by marking it as 'anti-sotl', then by all means do so.

If you would prefer to know the truth, it goes something like this:
- Gideon exposes Brannor's attacker.
- A couple of sotl players thought this was uneccesary, which isn't so bad, except for the way they expressed themselves.
- Some non-sotl players reminded them of whose guild they live in

Indeed - it's more of a pro-sotl campaign, considering non-sotl people were supporting Gideon.


Can you understand this now?
If not, ask someone else to explain it to you. I only have so much patience.

 

[Lochlyessa]

Originally posted by Generic Poster



- Some non-sotl players reminded them of whose guild they live in

.

Guild was founded by Gideon, and run by Gideon for a good while. However, since his account is canceled, and he's pretty much severed all ties within the guild, so I think in fairness, SotL is not his guild anymore.