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[Gwadien]

My local council turns the street lights off overnight and a few years ago all the ones in my street were converted to LED. I agree though, would love to see more of our Milky Way from my garden.

Don't you think the led ones are worse than the old school ones?

I just dislike leds generally tbh, especially in headlights in modern cars.

 

[Moriath]

Don't you think the led ones are worse than the old school ones?

I just dislike leds generally tbh, especially in headlights in modern cars.

Why? They are lower power and the led street lights push most of the light down rather than the old ones dispersing it all round.
leds are great.

 

[Deebs]

Don't you think the led ones are worse than the old school ones?

I just dislike leds generally tbh, especially in headlights in modern cars.

Not really, I prefer the cleaner white over the dirty yellow.

 

[Raven]

Even if they "push the light down" it still releases light pollution via reflection.

 

[Moriath]

Even if they "push the light down" it still releases light pollution via reflection.

Yes but its not as bad as some light is absorbed by the ground before it reflects. Pushed was the wrong word. Shine in a direction they are pointed rather than a glowin all directions may be

 

[Lamp]

Soup weather soon
Think I'll do a massive winter vegetable one

 

[dysfunction]

Soup weather soon
Think I'll do a massive winter vegetable one

And any soup?

 

[Lamp]

haha

 

[Lamp]

They say happiness is a cigar called Hamlet
For me, its watching classic Bugs Bunny & Daffy Duck


View: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6vkbqq

 

[Embattle]

NASA calls Voyager 2, and the spacecraft answers from interstellar space

The spacecraft is so far south it can only talk to one Earth-bound antenna.

arstechnica.com

 

[Scouse]

UK health professions call for climate tax on meat

Food with heavy environmental impact should be taxed by 2025 unless food industry acts voluntarily, says alliance

www.theguardian.com

I'm for this, despite being one of the heaviest meat-eaters on the planet most likely.

 

[dysfunction]

UK health professions call for climate tax on meat

Food with heavy environmental impact should be taxed by 2025 unless food industry acts voluntarily, says alliance

www.theguardian.com

I'm for this, despite being one of the heaviest meat-eaters on the planet most likely.

then they need to make fruit and veg tax free

 

[DaGaffer]

then they need to make fruit and veg tax free

Fruit and veg are tax free.

 

[dysfunction]

Fruit and veg are tax free.

oh yes 😊

They need making cheaper then is my point

 

[Scouse]

oh yes 😊

They need making cheaper then is my point

Why? They're already cheaper than meat.

 

[dysfunction]

Why? They're already cheaper than meat.

because people are taxed enough as it is. And if you want people to switch to a more environmentally friendly food source then you should give an incentive rather than a punishment.

 

[Scouse]

because people are taxed enough as it is. And if you want people to switch to a more environmentally friendly food source then you should give an incentive rather than a punishment.

SO, as vegetables are already cheaper than meat - if people move to a higher-veg based diet they'll not only be helping the planet and healthier - they'll be better off.

But people aren't already changing voluntarily - so something needs to change. Economic reality shows that cost makes people move - and we really are past the point of asking now.


Of course, that's wholly undermined by the fact that we're about to flood our market with cheap US meat produced to much worse environmental and health standards. But hey ho.

 

[dysfunction]

SO, as vegetables are already cheaper than meat - if people move to a higher-veg based diet they'll not only be helping the planet and healthier - they'll be better off.

But people aren't already changing voluntarily - so something needs to change. Economic reality shows that cost makes people move - and we really are past the point of asking now.


Of course, that's wholly undermined by the fact that we're about to flood our market with cheap US meat produced to much worse environmental and health standards. But hey ho.

So why are you not just eating veg then? As you said you eat a lot of meat....
And also meat becomes only available to the rich to eat which isn't fair.

 

[Scouse]

So why are you not just eating veg then? As you said you eat a lot of meat....
And also meat becomes only available to the rich to eat which isn't fair.

On meat, I'm definitely a hypocrite. I do insist we eat meat-free a couple of days a week (on health grounds more than anything else) but I live with a butchers daughter...

But if they tax meat - and put that additional take into environmental programmes - I'll, rightly, get punished for my meat purchases - my cost of living will go up.

That's absolutely right tbh.

As for poor people getting hit. That's the way of capitalism. Life's not fair - but in the absence of systemic change (that nobody wants to vote for) then that's what we've got. It's harsh, but tough titties.

(Edit: And you're being a drama queen - meat won't become "only available for the rich to eat" - it'll just get eaten less overall - which we need to do).

 

[DaGaffer]

because people are taxed enough as it is. And if you want people to switch to a more environmentally friendly food source then you should give an incentive rather than a punishment.

Food has never been cheaper in real terms. That's why we're all fat.

To be honest the first point of call for taxation on environmental grounds should be the packaging, not the food itself.

 

[dysfunction]

Food has never been cheaper in real terms. That's why we're all fat.

To be honest the first point of call for taxation on environmental grounds should be the packaging, not the food itself.

No it's because junk food is cheaper than fresh food.

 

[dysfunction]

On meat, I'm definitely a hypocrite. I do insist we eat meat-free a couple of days a week (on health grounds more than anything else) but I live with a butchers daughter...

But if they tax meat - and put that additional take into environmental programmes - I'll, rightly, get punished for my meat purchases - my cost of living will go up.

That's absolutely right tbh.

As for poor people getting hit. That's the way of capitalism. Life's not fair - but in the absence of systemic change (that nobody wants to vote for) then that's what we've got. It's harsh, but tough titties.

(Edit: And you're being a drama queen - meat won't become "only available for the rich to eat" - it'll just get eaten less overall - which we need to do).

And yet you constantly complain that the system needs to change and then quite happy for it to continue in another breath.
Of course it will become the food of the rich. If it becomes more and more expensive due to taxes being added (which will only increase) the poor will become priced out of the market.

 

[DaGaffer]

No it's because junk food is cheaper than fresh food.

While that doesn't help, even without cheap junk food we still eat vastly more food full stop than we did even 50 years ago, and we mostly have more sedentary lifestyles to boot.

 

[Aoami]

No it's because junk food is cheaper than fresh food.

Only if you don't know what you're doing - which most people don't. Education is the key.

 

[Scouse]

Food has never been cheaper in real terms. That's why we're all fat.

Calories have never been cheaper. We're fat and malnourished.

To be honest the first point of call for taxation on environmental grounds should be the packaging, not the food itself.

Nah. Packaging is definitely part of the issue - but production, land use, yadda yadda yadda - more than just climate change. Also the biodiversity issues.

 

[Scouse]

And yet you constantly complain that the system needs to change and then quite happy for it to continue in another breath.

Oh do fuck off.

I constantly complain that the system needs to be changed - and vote for it.

End of that bit.

For the second bit - happy for it to continue? No! Of course not. I constantly complain, remember?

But there's fuck all I can do about that - I vote for it, I absolutely do better than most in the UK, but I'm not a fucking saint - nobody is. It's a fucking idiots mantra - like "if you think we should tax people - give your money away to the poor".

No. Because I'll then be poor and the problem will still exist. Which is why I want systemic change. That the british public refuse to vote for.


Happy to be a hypocrite when it comes to meat - because I'm doing better than 90% of the population when it comes to everything else. If that fact makes me a sancatamonious asshole then cool. I'm happy with that.

 

[Yoni]

 

[Scouse]

OK Yoni - to be clear about it - the argument Dys put forward is similar to this one, which keeps rearing it's head:

Me: "I think we need systemic change on tax - the rich get taxed at a lower rate than the poor. Even Warren Buffet says he pays less than his secretary"
Bodhi: "Give your money away then? Pay more tax"
Me: "So I'll be poor, and the problem will still exist? No - we need systemic change"
Bodhi: "Fucking champagne socialist hypocrite"

It's obviously nonsensical.

People are complex. Some do more than others. I'm absolutely happy that I do more than most - and I can back that up. But I'm also aware that my meat consumption is high. But I'm not going to do everything - live like an ascetic - on balance I do more than most.

That position does not exclude me from holding an intellectual position on how we should run or change our society.

 

[Gwadien]

OK Yoni - to be clear about it - the argument Dys put forward is similar to this one, which keeps rearing it's head:

Me: "I think we need systemic change on tax - the rich get taxed at a lower rate than the poor. Even Warren Buffet says he pays less than his secretary"
Bodhi: "Give your money away then? Pay more tax"
Me: "So I'll be poor, and the problem will still exist? No - we need systemic change"
Bodhi: "Fucking champagne socialist hypocrite"

It's obviously nonsensical.

People are complex. Some do more than others. I'm absolutely happy that I do more than most - and I can back that up. But I'm also aware that my meat consumption is high. But I'm not going to do everything - live like an ascetic - on balance I do more than most.

That position does not exclude me from holding an intellectual position on how we should run or change our society.

So does that apply to climate change too then?

Because I personally believe that 'people' doing their bit is largely pointless unless Governments and companies do more.

I'm fairly sure you shot that down a while ago.

 

[dysfunction]

Oh do fuck off.

I constantly complain that the system needs to be changed - and vote for it.

End of that bit.

For the second bit - happy for it to continue? No! Of course not. I constantly complain, remember?

But there's fuck all I can do about that - I vote for it, I absolutely do better than most in the UK, but I'm not a fucking saint - nobody is. It's a fucking idiots mantra - like "if you think we should tax people - give your money away to the poor".

No. Because I'll then be poor and the problem will still exist. Which is why I want systemic change. That the british public refuse to vote for.


Happy to be a hypocrite when it comes to meat - because I'm doing better than 90% of the population when it comes to everything else. If that fact makes me a sancatamonious asshole then cool. I'm happy with that.

Big change come from small changes.
If you're not willing then why should anyone else bother or pay more?