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[DaGaffer]

The best evidence you can find is to walk into the nearest city.

Except it doesn't, and is the pretty much the worst way to understand what's going on in different countries or cities. If you went to San Francisco today you'd think the US had a homeless crisis of epic proportions, but the reality is that it has a couple of intense hotspots of homelessness but actually a very tiny problem at a national level. US poverty isn't about homelessness at all. In every country the causes, extent and measurement of homelessness are very specific, often down to city or even district level.

 

[Embattle]

I can see you facepalming gwadien Emb, but so far only Gaff has attempted to bring additional fact to the argument. You continue to poo-poo his argument offering only your opinion.

You mean the ones that back up at least part of my so called opinion, neither of which will change the narrative he wants to pursue as proven by his following comment.

 

[Zarjazz]

Except it doesn't, and is the pretty much the worst way to understand what's going on in different countries or cities. If you went to San Francisco today you'd think the US had a homeless crisis of epic proportions, but the reality is that it has a couple of intense hotspots of homelessness but actually a very tiny problem at a national level. US poverty isn't about homelessness at all. In every country the causes, extent and measurement of homelessness are very specific, often down to city or even district level.

I'm been told by locals that the whole San Francisco / San Jose area is a peak homeless density for one simple reason. The weather.

"Come to California for your Homeless Holiday Hotspots."

 

[Embattle]

https://www.oecd.org/els/family/HC3-1-Homeless-population.pdf - A couple of years old but gives clear information regarding differences.

 

[Syri]

Typical thermal efficiency for utility-scale electrical generators is around 37% for coal and oil-fired plants, and 56 – 60% (LEV) for combined-cycle gas-fired plants.

An internal combusrion from fuel to back wheels is 25%

Grid transmissuon loss 2% which for some reason you think isnt worth factoring in..gets there by magic I guess.
So for a coal plant..36% to charger, then 5% for high current charger losses...34%.
Then heat and transmission loss in the Tesla from battery to wheels 60% efficient
So from the burning coal to driving the back wheels of a Tesla, thats 20%


Worse than a petrol car unless you figure in getting the fuel to the petrol stations.

Worse than a petrol car unless you figure in getting the fuel to the petrol stations.

Yes, of course, so let's just get rid of the stats that don't feed the view we're trying to portray! If you're factoring in the efficiency of getting the electricity to the charging point, then you have to factor in getting the fuel to the filling point. If you conveniently leave one out, that's called "fiddling the stats", and makes the entire point invalid. But then again, I can't really say that came as a shock to me by now...

 

[Moriath]

Don't see why that warrants a funny @Embattle. We don't do trailer parks in the UK.

Not that it's a great example of a decent home, but it's better than many homeless.

As small as 13 sq metres: are these the worst new flats in Britain?

We have that instead. Worse imo

 

[Job]

Yes, of course, so let's just get rid of the stats that don't feed the view we're trying to portray! If you're factoring in the efficiency of getting the electricity to the charging point, then you have to factor in getting the fuel to the filling point. If you conveniently leave one out, that's called "fiddling the stats", and makes the entire point invalid. But then again, I can't really say that came as a shock to me by now...

What even is that..what?

I broke it down for you..true I started with coal, but feel free to adjust it for more efficient generation.

Is it you just dont like to hear the truth.

I left it out because I cant find the losses from oil to forecourt fuel...took a reasonable guess that it adds enough to make even the worse generation slightly better.
Regardless, its not about Ecars its about the grid, that has to improve, the cars arent going anywhere without a massive battery tech improvement.

 

[DaGaffer]

What even is that..what?

I broke it down for you..true I started with coal, but feel free to adjust it for more efficient generation.

Is it you just dont like to hear the truth.

I left it out because I cant find the losses from oil to forecourt fuel...took a reasonable guess that it adds enough to make even the worse generation slightly better.
Regardless, its not about Ecars its about the grid, that has to improve, the cars arent going anywhere without a massive battery tech improvement.

If you don't use coal as the start point, EVs immediately become more efficient than ICE, even using your own figures. You used coal because it made your argument work.

 

[Job]

I was pointing out that the efficiency advantage is nowhere as good as people think.
You burn fossil, turn it into steam, which spins a generator, that creates 3 phase, which is then transformed up to 25OKV, then back down to 250 single phase with transformers that are oil cooled, then the charger converts that to DC for the batteries, then the car controller makes it into 3 phase again...Teskas use gears and diffs rather than direct drive.
The losses along the way are 80% for coal..obviously irrelevent for nuclear.

Advantages no local pollution and with regen braking very little brake dust..just the tyres...oh and massive industrial strip mining for lithium.

 

[Job]

So Greta Thunbergs much heralded yacht trip across the atlantic actually requires two crew members to fly to bring it back...so she might as,well have flown herself.

Yes it was symbolic...but its also symbolic of how entrenched burning fuel is.

 

[georgie]

oh and massive industrial strip mining for lithium.

Whereas the Coal and Oil fairies bring the black stuff from the ground by magic.

This is one of those times where I can *kind* of see where you're coming from, but once again things are more nuanced than your back of the fag packet maths allows.

 

[Gwadien]

Wasn't she invited along rather than them making a special trip of it?

 

[caLLous]

Leaked documents show Brazil’s Bolsonaro has grave plans for Amazon rainforest

 

[caLLous]

 

[Job]

If capitalism is your goal it will disappear.
Its a myth that its the 'lungs' of the planet and the farmers are rightly complaining that the jobs they are offered wont gets their kids through college.
No ones crying about the lost forests of Europe.

 

[Gwadien]

If capitalism is your goal it will disappear.
Its a myth that its the 'lungs' of the planet and the farmers are rightly complaining that the jobs they are offered wont gets their kids through college.
No ones crying about the lost forests of Europe.

So we don't need trees for oxygen?

Okay.

Good to see the EU showing its global power though and getting Brazil to change its tune.

I wonder if the UK would have similar clout. Obvs not.

 

[caLLous]

Its a myth that its the 'lungs' of the planet

No, it's science. I understand the 2 are equally as mysterious to you.

 

[Scouse]

He's a flat earther

 

[Embattle]

If capitalism is your goal it will disappear.
Its a myth that its the 'lungs' of the planet and the farmers are rightly complaining that the jobs they are offered wont gets their kids through college.
No ones crying about the lost forests of Europe.

Not really, unless you believe in short term capitalism only.
It isn't exactly on the same scale as phytoplankton but it also isn't something you can afford to lose.
No one knew at the time as there wasn't a great deal of scientific evidence around.

 

[Job]

How much do oceans add to world’s oxygen? | EarthSky.org

 

[Gwadien]

So Netflix & Bear Grylls did a programme on Modi where they're basically licking his arse a little bit.

That's a bit politically insensitive considering what's going on.

 

[Job]

Someones pointed out the similarity of pigtailed Greta Thunberg and the Nazi pigtail propaganda girls.

nazi blonde girls pigtails propaganda - Google Search

 

[caLLous]

People who try to put Greta Thunberg down are invariably white, middle-aged and right wing.

 

[Gwadien]

Someones pointed out the similarity of pigtailed Greta Thunberg and the Nazi pigtail propaganda girls.

nazi blonde girls pigtails propaganda - Google Search

Pathetic.

 

[Job]

But still.

You would think they were both products of the same marketing company.

 

[Gwadien]

But still.

You would think they were both products of the same marketing company.

Because of a hair cut?

 

[dysfunction]

But still.

You would think they were both products of the same marketing company.

Only you your kind would think that.

 

[Gwadien]

Y'all should watch American Factory on Netflix.

China is scary man.

Super scary.

 

[Yoni]

From what i gather they aren't reliable long distance but rather be used in cities (as constant stop-go driving devours gas) to reduce particle emission and make for cheaper driving. Win-win would be a hybrid, gas for long mileage and electric for city-driving.

We have just got a petrol hybrid. Kris’ commute is 60km - c.10km per day is petrol (pure petrol 0.5l per 100km) - we charge at either end (2.5 hours) 2.50gbp per day as at work it is free. Instead of filling up the car every 2 weeks (with diesel we now fill up ever 2 months with petrol) - when only commuting. We took the car recently from Stockholm to Åre 650 km - we used 1.3 tanks for the return and used only electric for the 6 days - charging each evening. As well as the reduced fuel cost - the leasing cost (co car) is lower and the taxable benefit is 1/3rd of the last car. If we lived in a house in the ‘burbs we would have a full electric car. If we would go to Åre we would charge whilst taking a break from driving

 

[dysfunction]

Wow another day of amazing cricket.
Well done England