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[Gwadien]

@Embattle with the good old 'I'll never be homeless, so i don't give a shit!' Tory response.

I suppose I respect the fact that you've nailed your colours.

 

[Gwadien]

Looks like we are worse than the US @Scouse
List of countries by homeless population - Wikipedia

 

[Scouse]

To be fair - I doubt the US gives a shit about counting them, what with all the other shit they don't care about.

 

[Gwadien]

To be fair - I doubt the US gives a shit about counting them, what with all the other shit they don't care about.

I think the fact that you can buy a house for fuck all is a massive contributing factor too.

 

[Embattle]

I'll leave nailing your spouting colours versus your actual ones you and another certain member of this forum tend to use often.

Oh and although Scouse got there before me you are a complete idiot if you think America in any way actually has accurate figures on homelessness in the US, but don't let that stop the quality of the information you use.

 

[Gwadien]

It's just funny how you facepalm stuff but you refuse to talk about it, or give your opinion, you just shut down the argument with NOPE.

Sounds like a criticism of Remainers by Brexiteers, hmm.

 

[Embattle]

It's just funny how you facepalm stuff but you refuse to talk about it, or give your opinion, you just shut down the argument with NOPE.

Sounds like a criticism of Remainers by Brexiteers, hmm.

Well you aren't saying anything new nor do the bias views you regularly spout show any change in your attitude and thus I see no reason to get in these silly repetitive short sighted arguments on the forum. I've personally avoided the brexit subject because it is the worst example of this but if you want to label me a brexiteer then I'll label you the perfect remoaner, in essence you just keep shouting and blaming everything on brexit and the conservatives until you are the last one talking.

 

[Scouse]

Sorry @Embattle but your point about quality of information is just like mine - based on how you feel, not actual evidence. Argument has to be based on the facts at hand.

@Gwadien is right on the other point too.

 

[Moriath]

Yes they will. Tax. Tax is what got people into diesels and its what will (and is) getting people into EVs. The Tesla S isn't one of the most popular cars in Norway because its an EV, its because relative to other cars of a similar size its taxed massively less. BMW expect a quarter of all of the new 3-series sales in the UK to be the hybrid, purely because of the tax benefit. Throw in a an increasing number of ULEV zones in cities and electric will start to get traction in the next couple of years; primarily in plug-in hybrids at first (there are tons about to come to market in the next 12-18 months) and then full EVs.

NB. I don't actually think full battery EVs are the right choice for mass consumer use; hydrogen hybrids is actually the more sustainable choice but the infrastructure numbers don't work yet (they will when existing electrical grids come under pressure), so hydrogen may be the technology for 10-15 years' time, but in the meantime most of us will move to a hybrid or full EV over the next 5-8 years.

But there isnt the charging stations in the uk yet. There are in norway. The tax breaks are great in the uk to out weigh the inconvenience.

 

[Moriath]

Sorry @Embattle but your point about quality of information is just like mine - based on how you feel, not actual evidence. Argument has to be based on the facts at hand.

@Gwadien is right on the other point too.

US social services suck big time. There isnt any long term unemployment benefit at a federal level.

 

[Job]

Yes they fucking are you giant tit.

I'm saying this as someone who a) has a tech environment-related degree and b) someone who worked for 13 years at one of europe's largest power generating and distributing companies.

They're still shit, but way more efficient than internal combustion engines - which is what @Ormorof was actually talking about.

Of course, your lack of basic comprehension skills means you mixed up power generation with distribution and storage. Life must be incomprehensibly difficult when you've only a one-in-six chance of finding your ass with your hands...

Typical thermal efficiency for utility-scale electrical generators is around 37% for coal and oil-fired plants, and 56 – 60% (LEV) for combined-cycle gas-fired plants.

An internal combusrion from fuel to back wheels is 25%

Grid transmissuon loss 2% which for some reason you think isnt worth factoring in..gets there by magic I guess.
So for a coal plant..36% to charger, then 5% for high current charger losses...34%.
Then heat and transmission loss in the Tesla from battery to wheels 60% efficient
So from the burning coal to driving the back wheels of a Tesla, thats 20%


Worse than a petrol car unless you figure in getting the fuel to the petrol stations.

 

[DaGaffer]

But there isnt the charging stations in the uk yet. There are in norway. The tax breaks are great in the uk to out weigh the inconvenience.

Norway is a bit of an outlier; they went hard on EV incentives years before anyone else, and the incentives (until about 2 years ago) were enormous, so that stimulated the whole EV ecosystem a lot.

The UK is a totally pretty much in line or actually ahead of other EU countries on EV penetration (Germany and the Netherlands are a bit better, but not much) but interestingly there are about 3x as many public charging stations per cap in the UK as there are in the US; basically everyone over there charges at home or their employer.

 

[Gwadien]

Well you aren't saying anything new nor do the bias views you regularly spout show any change in your attitude and thus I see no reason to get in these silly repetitive short sighted arguments on the forum. I've personally avoided the brexit subject because it is the worst example of this but if you want to label me a brexiteer then I'll label you the perfect remoaner, in essence you just keep shouting and blaming everything on brexit and the conservatives until you are the last one talking.

Short sighted arguments?

So you don't think the drastic increase in homelessness is a cause for concern?

 

[Ormorof]

Power stations arent wildly more efficient..those giant chimneys next to them are cooling towers that evaporate off wasted heat, factor in transmission losses, charging losses and battery heat loss...Tesla batteries are water cooled and thats,what powers the heater once you are going..plus the controller which is in the same water cooled circuit.
Then the huge weight of the batteries.

Infrastructure problem of just evaporating all the heat, in Nordics the excess heat is used for heating water which gets pumped into central heating, incidentally also wildly more efficient than every house having a boiler...

 

[DaGaffer]

Typical thermal efficiency for utility-scale electrical generators is around 37% for coal and oil-fired plants, and 56 – 60% (LEV) for combined-cycle gas-fired plants.

An internal combusrion from fuel to back wheels is 25%

Grid transmissuon loss 2% which for some reason you think isnt worth factoring in..gets there by magic I guess.
So for a coal plant..36% to charger, then 5% for high current charger losses...34%.
Then heat and transmission loss in the Tesla from battery to wheels 60% efficient
So from the burning coal to driving the back wheels of a Tesla, thats 20%


Worse than a petrol car unless you figure in getting the fuel to the petrol stations.

The UK barely uses coal now so your point is moot.

 

[Job]

Infrastructure problem of just evaporating all the heat, in Nordics the excess heat is used for heating water which gets pumped into central heating, incidentally also wildly more efficient than every house having a boiler...

We used ti do that but environmental concerns pushed the stations out into the country and we just steam it off

 

[Ormorof]

We used ti do that but environmental concerns pushed the stations out into the country and we just steam it off

Also a good incentive to use cleaner power if they have to be close to population centers, and hey less loss from distance on grid right?

 

[Scouse]

US social services suck big time. There isnt any long term unemployment benefit at a federal level.

Forms the basis of a hypothesis but isn't a fact that proves it.

Rigourous testing might, but until then it's no better than a (reasonable) guess.

 

[Moriath]

Forms the basis of a hypothesis but isn't a fact that proves it.

Rigourous testing might, but until then it's no better than a (reasonable) guess.

Ofcourse i havent put a study into the detail. Just the way my extended family have been as all my wifes side of the family live in small town america without great jobs if any jobs. And the social support side is less than the uk for them.

I wow’d them with stories of our medical systems and everything and they wanna come live in the uk now haha.

 

[Scouse]

That's why I said reasonable guess @Moriath

But I doubt very much it's the whole story. Your personal experience counts for dick, when it comes to continent wide facts.

 

[Embattle]

Well the same can be said for US stats not counting for much, for example the US does have some of the best healthcare if you don't include those who can't get it.

 

[Embattle]

Further improvement in Scotland's public finances

 

[Gwadien]

But houses aren't in short supply in the US, you can easily pick up a trailer and consider yourself not homeless for $1k.

In the the UK that's virtually impossible.

Look at Germany's homelessness compared to us, that's a good comparison.

 

[Scouse]

Don't see why that warrants a funny @Embattle. We don't do trailer parks in the UK.

Not that it's a great example of a decent home, but it's better than many homeless.

 

[Embattle]

It is a stupid example, even worse it still keeps glossing over the difference of how countries define a homeless person, how countries count them, the standards they live in, who counts them, etc. but as long as it suits a particular persons narrative who cares.

I've used this example before from fictional universe of Babylon 5:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZRTbgYXAmo

 

[Ormorof]

But houses aren't in short supply in the US, you can easily pick up a trailer and consider yourself not homeless for $1k.

In the the UK that's virtually impossible.

Look at Germany's homelessness compared to us, that's a good comparison.

Germany also has a huge homelessness problem, but a lot of it is not documented

 

[Gwadien]

I do find it funny that someone who voted for Brexit is trying to justify his position by using statistics and 'facts'.

 

[DaGaffer]

Looks like we are worse than the US @Scouse
List of countries by homeless population - Wikipedia

Funnily enough I was reading about this last week, because the homeless crisis in Ireland was countered by the government basically saying "we're not that bad by international standards". Problem is when journos decided to fact check it turns out that no two countries use the same measure of "homeless" so country comparisons are worthless.
FactCheck: Does Ireland really have a low rate of homelessness by international standards?

 

[Scouse]

I can see you facepalming gwadien Emb, but so far only Gaff has attempted to bring additional fact to the argument. You continue to poo-poo his argument offering only your opinion.

 

[Gwadien]

The best evidence you can find is to walk into the nearest city.