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Wij

Wij

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Scouse said:
That's not a view. That's you not comitting to anything, as usual.

For me, it actually looks like you believe people shouldn't be able to criticise Israel, just in case it's antisemitic, but you're scared to say it for some reason.

But I can't really tell - because you won't clearly state your position.
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It's quite obvious what I mean. It's OK to criticise Israel. I do it myself when it deserves it. However, some people use it as way to criticise Jews without saying "Fucking Jews".
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
It's quite obvious what I mean. It's OK to criticise Israel.
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Finally some clarity! Why not just say that in the first place? It's not obvious - hence why I asked explicitly multiple times.

As for the rest. Yes that's undoubtedly true but unless you have a way of seeing inside people's heads then how can you tell?

Coming back to Roger, he's never said anything remotely antisemitic. Casting aspertions about people without evidence is a horrid thing to do - and he's being hounded. The Israel lobby is real and disgusting - using the sort of tactics usually associated with cunt organisations like scientology, apart from the Israel lobby have global reach and real teeth.
 
Scouse

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Bodhi said:
If you're criticising Israel just for being then it is massively antisemitic, as I'm not sure why other religions get their own homeland but Jewish people have to defend theirs.
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I absolutely reject this.

Israel as a legal land for the jews is a massively 'racist' concept. Other religions don't have a "homeland" (the Catholic Church's ownerhip of Vatican City state is 44 hectares/120 odd acres and is clearly setup so they can run their own laws, like the City of London). Judaeism is an idea - and setting up a country to exclude people is inherently discriminatory.

Israel should be able to exist all it likes, but not for the jews - it should be secular and govern for all it's people equally. As it is, it's the very definition of an apartheid state.
 
Bodhi

Bodhi

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Scouse said:
I absolutely reject this.

Israel as a legal land for the jews is a massively 'racist' concept. Other religions don't have a "homeland" (the Catholic Church's ownerhip of Vatican City state is 44 hectares/120 odd acres and is clearly setup so they can run their own laws, like the City of London). Judaeism is an idea - and setting up a country to exclude people is inherently discriminatory.

Israel should be able to exist all it likes, but not for the jews - it should be secular and govern for all it's people equally. As it is, it's the very definition of an apartheid state.
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I'll assume you're aware there are over 400 mosques in Israel, with over 70 of them being in Jerusalem itself? Israel as a country is incredibly welcoming to other religions also - for instance I had a Muslim taxi driver take me back to the airport when I visited there, and he was taking great pleasure in telling me how his neighbour was Jewish and they got on fine.

They just aren't very welcoming to people lobbing rockets at them, that's all.
 
Scouse

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Bodhi said:
I'll assume you're aware there are over 400 mosques in Israel, with over 70 of them being in Jerusalem itself? Israel as a country is incredibly welcoming to other religions also - for instance I had a Muslim taxi driver take me back to the airport when I visited there, and he was taking great pleasure in telling me how his neighbour was Jewish and they got on fine.

They just aren't very welcoming to people lobbing rockets at them, that's all.
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You're being disingenuous @Bodhi. All people are not equal under the law.

It's not even "just" arabs or minorities or migrants - there's institutional discrimination against non-orthodox jews and intermarried families.
 
Tom

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It's so complicated with so much history and so much wrongdoing on all sides (I'm not excusing any party here) that I tend to steer well clear of it. Because frankly I don't really know enough to argue about it.

Let's just say that the situation is fucked up and that it needs to be resolved peacefully.

BTW if I didn't already say this, Bury South (Christian Wakefield, who spoke in Parliament about Waters), contains Prestwich and Whitefield, two areas I know very well. About 20% Jewish population. I don't think you need to be a cynic to see why a member of parliament who's ahead by only 400 votes, who switched from Tory to Labour just recently, decided "on principle" to talk about antisemitism in Manchester. The same guy who also stood for photographs next to Gene Simmons, who's made some quite spicy comments about Islam.
 
DaGaffer

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Anyone watch Le Mans this weekend? Cracking race, best endurance race I've seen in years
 
Scouse

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DaGaffer said:
Anyone watch Le Mans this weekend? Cracking race, best endurance race I've seen in years
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You know, I ditched F1 and my motor racing watching when they introduced the push-to-overtake shite, but I could get behind a weekend of Le Mans - it doesn't burn up most of the year and it's actual racing in actual cars, not space planes.

Gonna watch the Cambrian Rally on 28th October - it's up in the forests near me so it's a bike ride to the course, lunch whilst I watch some car based lunacy, then a bat back down the hills on the MTB to finish in Betws for a pint :)
 
Bodhi

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DaGaffer said:
Anyone watch Le Mans this weekend? Cracking race, best endurance race I've seen in years
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Is it wrong that I was over the moon that the NASCAR Camaro made the entire distance - and from what I can tell, didn't disgrace itself at all?
 
DaGaffer

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Bodhi said:
Is it wrong that I was over the moon that the NASCAR Camaro made the entire distance - and from what I can tell, didn't disgrace itself at all?
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I think you and millions of others. It looked like a stately home on wheels compared to every other car there, but that was part of its charm.
 
Raven

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TdC said:
Kick ass dude! I hadda give my recent feline back as his former cat-mom demanded it. "We made a mistake, etc" When I was packing him up for travel, where he was super chatty normally, he miauwed at me once and then said nothing for the entire trip there. His upset silence hit me right in the feels :(
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Both my cats are brothers from another mother, both are mental.
 
DaGaffer

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Just got back from seeing Depeche Mode at our nearby summer venue (Malahide Castle). Didn't really know what to expect. Dave Gahan looks like he vants to suck your blood and will turn into a bat any minute, but...they were absolutely brilliant! His voice is as good as it always was, and we got Personal Jesus for the encore. Cracking night.
 
Bodhi

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Embattle said:
www.dailymail.co.uk

A book about U.S. healthcare should make us value the NHS even more

Had I keeled over in America, I'd now be a corpse, as their medical system is unsympathetic towards anyone 'poor and chronically ill', which is pretty much the category I usually find myself in.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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Yes, because the US model and the NHS are the only two possible ways of setting up a Health Service.

Usual reductive nonsense from The Guardian. I always find it strange that, given that paper's endless love for all things Europe they never look over there for how to arrange health provision.
 
Scouse

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Deebs said:
Fuck that user, m00 from me to you all!
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Yay. How you doing boss? You well?

You in the mood to spill some beans, or did you just want to tell us you've been playing fucktons of Masters Of Orion? :)
 
Deebs

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Scouse said:
Yay. How you doing boss? You well?

You in the mood to spill some beans, or did you just want to tell us you've been playing fucktons of Masters Of Orion? :)
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Thanks for asking, I am on the road to recovery, was hospitalised for a week. I've been out of touch with a shit load of stuff, now I have something to go research and watch on Twitch.
 
Embattle

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Deebs said:
Thanks for asking, I am on the road to recovery, was hospitalised for a week. I've been out of touch with a shit load of stuff, now I have something to go research and watch on Twitch.
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Probably quicker to ask Wij about such things ;)
 
Jupitus

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Deebs said:
Thanks for asking, I am on the road to recovery, was hospitalised for a week. I've been out of touch with a shit load of stuff, now I have something to go research and watch on Twitch.
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Great to see you, ol'd Big Nose ;) Lovely to see you back online, but don't overdo it, eh cunt? :cool:
 
TdC

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Deebs said:
Thanks for asking, I am on the road to recovery, was hospitalised for a week. I've been out of touch with a shit load of stuff, now I have something to go research and watch on Twitch.
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welcome back big balls :)
 
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