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[Moriath]

View: https://youtu.be/JRPmLWYbUqA

 

[Scouse]

Bring on the next mass extinction event, that'll go some way to resolving things.

We're in the middle of it. Just not for humans (yet).


Edit: - Like the quote Attenborough used @Moriath - "anyone who believes in indefinite growth in anything physical on a physically finite planet is either mad or an economist"...

...and the orthodoxy on capitalism is still founded on indefinite growth, despite it maybe not being a requirement.

What IS a requirement is massive structural change to the organisation of human life.

 

[CorNokZ]

Remember to tell the next generation, when you're old, frail and a 20y old is giving you a shower, that their parents are egotistical arseholes for bringing them into this world.

How about blaming the medical industry while you're at it? After all, those are the cunts who make us live much longer than we used to..

 

[Gwadien]

You're actually completely incorrect because you're again applying your own opinions and emotions onto a subject and then releasing it as fact.

A middle class person not having children is dangerously detrimental to society; we need to outweigh the scumbags that have 10 children.

If you wanna fix the world go Vegan, no other way, don't guilt trip parents.

Also stop putting off potential clients

 

[Job]

Omg..Johnny Vegas has gone slim.

 

[Job]

We're in the middle of it. Just not for humans (yet).


Edit: - Like the quote Attenborough used @Moriath - "anyone who believes in indefinite growth in anything physical on a physically finite planet is either mad or an economist"...

...and the orthodoxy on capitalism is still founded on indefinite growth, despite it maybe not being a requirement.

What IS a requirement is massive structural change to the organisation of human life.

Continous growth is easy..you just have to smash everything up now and then.
Or we could just go virtual..then the RAMs the limit.

 

[Job]

I didn't call you selfish - the Royal Society did.

Well, to be fair, I did too. But it's not like I hate your entire being for it - it's not like that one choice defines you (although, it does seem to define some parents). But the facts as they stand point to having kids being a selfish act.

Now, whether that's a bad act is a different thing. Propagation is one of the primary functions of life.

However, intellectually we can understand the strains that vast overpopulation put on the planet - not just on the human race but on all life on earth. The planet is literally creaking at the seams. All animals and plant life across all of earths distinct environments are experiencing devastating issues with the biggest overriding factor being human overpopulation - and humans are suffering too from the issues we've created through unthinking over-propagation.

So stop getting pissy about the fact that it's definitely a selfish act to have kids in this day and age, accept that it is, and perhaps make an effort to take action elsewhere to minimise the effect that your choices have on the rest of the planet?


Or shoot the messenger, as usual.

Africa population increases a million a week.
Theyll have eaten all the Lions..Hippos , Elephants and Gorillas by 2030.

 

[fettoken]

They'll have to learn to grow and eat cactus's en masse.

 

[Scouse]

You're actually completely incorrect because you're again applying your own opinions and emotions onto a subject and then releasing it as fact.

A middle class person not having children is dangerously detrimental to society; we need to outweigh the scumbags that have 10 children.

I'd accuse you of that @Gwadien. The problem you're talking about there, again, is addressed in that Attenborough video - and it's one of education.

But hey, we don't have the resources to educate all of the population to a high standard do we? I wonder - why is that?

FFS. When teachers can't see the obvious we've no hope...

 

[Scouse]

Remember to tell the next generation, when you're old, frail and a 20y old is giving you a shower, that their parents are egotistical arseholes for bringing them into this world.

How about blaming the medical industry while you're at it? After all, those are the cunts who make us live much longer than we used to..

Why not try watching the David Attenborough video that @Moriath posted which directly rebuffs your points here.

And get your butthurt stick out of your ass - I didn't call you an "egotistical arsehole" - I made a balanced argument that given the state of facts as it is, that a single choice could be seen as selfish, but balanceable. But the very idea that you're being questioned seems to have resulted in you pouring about fifteen tons of sand into your fanny.

 

[Scouse]

Africa population increases a million a week.
Theyll have eaten all the Lions..Hippos , Elephants and Gorillas by 2030.

What Africa could do with is education, female equality and economic opportunity - as that's proven to bring the birth rate down - and the best way to do that is through investment from rich western economies.

But cunts like you prevent us from doing that by voting against aid.

 

[Job]

Yes Scouse aid is used to help people..oh hang no it isnt.
Its a political leverage tool thats surpresses local business and gives an unfair advantage to western interests.

 

[fettoken]

Yes Scouse aid is used to help people..oh hang no it isnt.
Its a political leverage tool thats surpresses local business and gives an unfair advantage to western interests.

Agreed. Especially with undeveloped countries where the corruption is at an all-time high.

 

[Scouse]

Agreed. Especially with undeveloped countries where the corruption is at an all-time high.

I'd argue that corruption is just as endemic in the UK as anywhere else - just more covert. Our banks have been fined for laundering trillions of dollars after all, Britain is a tax haven and it's protectorates are involved in large scale tax evasion, yadda yadda yadda.

Structural reforms are painful and come with a level of waste. Doesn't mean we should stop trying.

 

[Bodhi]

I'd argue that corruption is just as endemic in the UK as anywhere else - just more covert. Our banks have been fined for laundering trillions of dollars after all, Britain is a tax haven and it's protectorates are involved in large scale tax evasion, yadda yadda yadda.

Structural reforms are painful and come with a level of waste. Doesn't mean we should stop trying.

You'd be wrong though - Corruption Perceptions Index 2017

Also, tax evasion and avoidance are two completely different things. I'm sure you know this, but it's a useful confusion to take advantage of to make your point. Moving money through the Caymans is perfectly legal (ask Guardian Media Group).

 

[DaGaffer]

You're actually completely incorrect because you're again applying your own opinions and emotions onto a subject and then releasing it as fact.

A middle class person not having children is dangerously detrimental to society; we need to outweigh the scumbags that have 10 children.

If you wanna fix the world go Vegan, no other way, don't guilt trip parents.

Also stop putting off potential clients

Well yes, if the world was full of vegans the rest of us would have to shoot ourselves to avoid listening to the sanctimonious pricks. Population problem solved!

NB. In all seriousness we don’t have to all go vegan, just remove one animal from our diet. Moo cows cause 80% of global farming’s environmental damage. Much as I love a tasty burger, they’re not worth it environmentally speaking.

 

[Moriath]

Ok. Everyone must have been taught the bunnies and foxes co dependancy. The way the populations increase and decrease in line with each other.

Well humans used to be like that. But with farming and medicine we have distanced ourselves from that cycle somewhat. Not obviously in countries that have famines still but mainly.

We have not entirely removed ourselves from it though. We are in a finite planet with finite space and resources. And the more people there are the further those resources have to be stretched.

So putting a limit on the human population would stop us coming to the point where there is a disaster or massive war over resources that reduces the human population.

Being a sentient race we should recognise that a growing human population is not a good thing for anyone once it gets to a certain size.

But because of butt hurt attitudes like in here governments are putting their heads in the sand rather than tackle it.

Educating people to this fact and providing those who are born with the best chance of survival to old age with medicine should stabalise the population if not reduce it some.

Left to our own devices tho we breed like rabbits and will eventually cause misery on our own population.

 

[Gwadien]

View: https://youtu.be/Bu2wNKlVRzE?t=58

 

[Scouse]

NB. In all seriousness we don’t have to all go vegan, just remove one animal from our diet. Moo cows cause 80% of global farming’s environmental damage. Much as I love a tasty burger, they’re not worth it environmentally speaking.

Agreed - but in the end it's not just farming - it's all consumption and habitat loss that's the issue.

There's just too fucking many of us.

 

[Scouse]

You'd be wrong though - Corruption Perceptions Index 2017

Also, tax evasion and avoidance are two completely different things. I'm sure you know this, but it's a useful confusion to take advantage of to make your point. Moving money through the Caymans is perfectly legal (ask Guardian Media Group).

A "perceptions" index and a country so corrupt that it's political class has been making laws for centuries that allow the rich off the hook.

Difficult to prosecute when it's not a legal requirement to hand over evidence in our protectorates - by design.

 

[Job]

Education for Africa is so patronising white man.
OK lets sell them democracy..gay rights..weapons..hopeless consumerism..two world wars and deballed men.
If Africa had the same population density as England it would be home to 15 billion people.
You always say that England isnt overpopulated..could fit a lot more in..bring on the migrants.
Well that must be true for Africa as well..so 15 billion it is..plenty of space.

 

[Bodhi]

A "perceptions" index and a country so corrupt that it's political class has been making laws for centuries that allow the rich off the hook.

Difficult to prosecute when it's not a legal requirement to hand over evidence in our protectorates - by design.

It's even harder to prosecute something if it isn't illegal.

 

[Ormorof]

Overpopulation is an old tale thats been going for hundreds of years. Problem is more one of consumption than population (heres a nice article by beeb : How many people can our planet really support? )

And most western countries will be in deep trouble if they dont get either their birth rates up or begin mass immigration of young people

 

[Scouse]

It's even harder to prosecute something if it isn't illegal.

True. Would be difficult to prosecute murder by the rich if you made it legal for them to do so and constructed an infrastructure that separated them and their affairs from the poor...

 

[Scouse]

And most western countries will be in deep trouble if they dont get either their birth rates up or begin mass immigration of young people

That's a structural issue with how we conduct our societies. Young people are a sticking plaster for this - it's so obvious it's self evident.

As for how much food can the world produce? Yep. But like it's been said, it's not just about food. There are myriad consequences just from high population numbers that are we're massively struggling with and failing to deal with today.


BTW - shame on anyone who isn't looking after themselves and is planning for a future where they reckon they'll be reliant on the young.

 

[Moriath]

Got no kids to look after me when i am old. So money in pensions etc is all we will have.

Hate that people get to 70 or so and expect everything to be given to them.

 

[dysfunction]

If you have 2 children between 2 people then that is not harmful as you are just replacing yourselves.

The population would stabilise at a certain point and reach a good equilibrium.

As soon as families go beyond that then populations start to grow exponentially out of control.

 

[Moriath]

If you have 2 children between 2 people then that is not harmful as you are just replacing yourselves.

The population would stabilise at a certain point and reach a good equilibrium.

As soon as families go beyond that then populations start to grow exponentially out of control.

If you think 7 billion is sustainable yes.

 

[Gwadien]

9 billion is sustainable apparently, but again, every doom and gloom statistician has pointed out that having families in developed countries is fine - because people have 2.4 children which as dys points out is sustainable.

It's in developing countries where they have 9-10 children so they can provide for them when they are old.

Same issue, money, same fix, money.

 

[Job]

With the technology we have now scientists reckon the Earth could comfortably sustain 500 billion.
That would involve some epic construction of sky high super cities...massive cooling towers..huge reactors...thousands of square miles of soiless vertical farming...city size sewerage plants..but its all very doable..in fact it would fit in Europe...leaving the rest of the world for plantlife to provide materials and oxygen.
All very sc-fi..but our ancestors would think our technology and population levels are unbelievable.
It will probably happen eventually.