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[TdC]

THEYRE SUPER SERIAL

 

[Ormorof]

I had cereal for breakfast

It sounded like i was chewing gravel

 

[sayward]

Driving back from Paris yesterday had sat nav on. Said to beware of Earthquake damage near Charles De gaulle airport!!

 

[Yoni]

I'm not saying that.

I'm saying moving down the road to sit in a hotel in a city centre.

Holiday Inn, I believe.

Kris and I live in the middle of
Stockholm... Sometimes we stay in a hotel within 2km for a change of scenery... It's romantic.... Cocktails, Dinner, more shorts... hotel sex, cooked breakfast the next day... Why? Because we can

 

[Job]

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/...jects-solar-farm-because-it-will-suck-all-sun

Well it will block the sun behind the panels, which, if you put enough in would have some quite possible effect on something.

 

[Shagrat]

would have some quite possible effect on something.

That's some impressive science talk right there, you've definitely convinced me

 

[DaGaffer]

Well it will block the sun behind the panels, which, if you put enough in would have some quite possible effect on something.

You're quite right; I'm sure that's what they're thinking. Or more likely:

 

[Ormorof]

Well it will block the sun behind the panels, which, if you put enough in would have some quite possible effect on something.

It wil certainly have an effect on the ground beneath the panels but as they are not floating around in the sky (and likely sitting on concrete) it will be no more damaging than say, building a parking lot

 

[Job]

Yes, but it is different, a parking lot may well absorb more heat through the tarmac, where as panels will block a lot of heat and light, it's no doubt irrelevant on a small scale, but if you covered the sahara in panels, the sand underneath would probably end up damp and next thing you know we have giant worms like some scifi film.

 

[Scouse]

I was going to give you a funny for the Dune reference but the rest of your post did make me groan.

Can't be sure you're not trolling but the environmental consequences of putting 5000 square miles of the sahara under solar panels are practically nil, and immeasurably less than producing 'leccy from coal or gas.

 

[Raven]

Actually, if you covered the entire sahara in panels it would have a disastrous effect on the global climate.

...but nobody could or will ever cover enough to have an adverse effect, it would take centuries and would be of no benefit...but we could cover enough to get most, if not all our electricity from it.

The trouble is storage and until "they" can come up with something that is viable we are stuck with good ol' nuclear.

 

[Job]

 

[Job]

The real problem for solar panels is the technology is crap atm, you start planning a huge outlay and half way through it someone invents a 70% efficient panel that's made from chicken shit.
Too inefficient, too many rare materials and energy use to make.

 

[Gwadien]

Give more waste incinerators

Were good at rubbish and bad at getting rid of it

 

[Job]

Is it just me or is Freddys server playing up, having to click links 3-4 times and often gives no response page...suggest upgrading to Vista.

 

[Scouse]

Actually, if you covered the entire sahara in panels it would have a disastrous effect on the global climate.

How, exactly?

Putting massive solar arrays on disparate deserts and shunting power between them is exactly the suggestion of the head of the UN's Environment Program to solve climate change. He was desparately depressed that we could immediately solve the banking crisis but we refuse to do the same for the environmental crisis - which would cost about half that which the public gave the banks.

It's win-win. You mildly increase the albedo affect, you don't have to burn fuel, the technology is available right now, yadda yadda yadda. Where's the problem @Raven?

 

[Raven]

How, exactly?

Putting massive solar arrays on disparate deserts and shunting power between them is the suggestion of the head of the UN's Environment Program to solve climate change. He was desparately depressed that we could immediately solve the banking crisis but we refuse to do the same for the environmental crisis - which would cost about half that which the public gave the banks.

It's win-win. You mildly increase the albedo affect, you don't have to burn fuel, the technology is available right now, yadda yadda yadda. Where's the problem @Raven?

Global wind patterns for a start. Then there is the way the dust helps cool the planet.

It would be more catastrophic than stopping the gulf stream.

But I can see you are on the spectrum again today and didn't actually read what I said...so...

 

[old.user4556]

Raven has a point. The Saharan wind / dust is certainly the precursor and genesis for hurricanes, so I'd be interested to know what would happen to the climate / weather pattern if that were to be impacted / changed.

 

[Scouse]

Global wind patterns for a start. Then there is the way the dust helps cool the planet.

It would be more catastrophic than stopping the gulf stream.

Any evidence for this? Or is it just one of your feelings?

Does questioning you in a non-abusive manner really make you feel the need to dish out insults? Or is it that you're striking out because you've nothing other than unfounded opinion to make your repeated (and mistaken) assertion?

 

[Scouse]

Raven has a point. The Saharan wind / dust is certainly the precursor and genesis for hurricanes, so I'd be interested to know what would happen to the climate / weather pattern if that were to be impacted / changed.

It's yet to be shown that solar panel installation would make anything other than a negligable difference to dust and/or weather patterns.

Present evidence for that and we can start that conversation.

And remember - historically Raven has shown an awful lot of hate for models.

 

[old.user4556]

It's yet to be shown that solar panel installation would make anything other than a negligable difference to dust and/or weather patterns.

Present evidence for that and we can start that conversation.

Agreed. In lieu of facts and evidence, it's a pointless discussion.

 

[DaGaffer]

Any evidence for this? Or is it just one of your feelings?

Does questioning you in a non-abusive manner really make you feel the need to dish out insults? Or is it that you're striking out because you've nothing other than unfounded opinion to make your repeated (and mistaken) assertion?

If you covered the Sahara with solar panels you'd change the planet's albedo (its reflectivity) and warm the planet. Its one of the issues with the loss of polar icecaps because ice is bright and reflects more solar energy back into space than water.

 

[Ormorof]

Covering thr sahara would be slightly pointless as covering even a small part of it would give us much more energy thsn we currently use

Its shipping the power around without huge losses and night time thats a problem

This could be partially solved by putting massive installations in other deserts in china, USA, south america and Australia as well as coming up with some decent batteries (or you know space wireless power!)

 

[Scouse]

If you covered the Sahara with solar panels you'd change the planet's albedo (its reflectivity) and warm the planet. Its one of the issues with the loss of polar icecaps because ice is bright and reflects more solar energy back into space than water.

I understood there'd be an increase in albedo, not a decrease, but either way the energy generation would offset warming due to carbon burning. And I also understand that there's steps being taken to heat harvest at solar plants too.

But yeah, a conversation's to be had. I'd taken offense at Raven's insult because of a simple question tho...

 

[Raven]

Any evidence for this? Or is it just one of your feelings?

Does questioning you in a non-abusive manner really make you feel the need to dish out insults? Or is it that you're striking out because you've nothing other than unfounded opinion to make your repeated (and mistaken) assertion?

You appear to still not be reading my original post...so...

I can't be arsed to argue a point I didn't make...so...

Just so you can put your willy away for a bit, here is what I said.

The sahara reflects a fuckton of energy back into space, both directly and due to the dust produced. if you were to COVER IT IN ITS ENTIRETY it would be catastrophic BUT WE WOULDN'T NEED TO because we don't need that much energy COVERING ENOUGH FOR OUR NEEDS would be fine.

The next point I made was that the energy would only be produced in daytime SO WE WOULD NEED A VIABLE STORAGE SOLUTION which currently doesn't exist.

 

[Raven]

Edit, and don't bother answering. I don't care either way.

But please, in future, instead of steaming ahead because you didn't read something properly and got a flea in your vag over something you think was posted, stop, re-read, then answer.

 

[Scouse]

But please, in future, instead of steaming ahead because you didn't read something properly and got a flea in your vag over something you think was posted, stop, re-read, then answer.

You edited your post. Just re-read and yep, fair enough...

 

[soze]

Covering thr sahara would be slightly pointless as covering even a small part of it would give us much more energy thsn we currently use

Its shipping the power around without huge losses and night time thats a problem

This could be partially solved by putting massive installations in other deserts in china, USA, south america and Australia as well as coming up with some decent batteries (or you know space wireless power!)

There are some power stations around that store energy. One way is to pump water from the bottom of a hill to the top when there is plenty of spare electricity. Then when there is demand you let it go the other way and gain the electricity back. I am not sure what percentage you lose doing this or how many of these you would need to cover the UK's usage at night but it is an option. Some people are saying that using a thicker and heavier liquid would let you shirk the size too.

 

[Bodhi]

You've also got the issue that solar panel production is a pretty messy business, with lots of nasty chemicals involved in the manufacture of them. So they might help with preventing the appearance of ManBearPig, but they can be an environmental disaster in other ways.

Bit like those useless windmills we're building all over the shop, that lacerate birds and have a metric fuckton of concrete in the base of them. But hey, plant food is reduced, so it must be good!

 

[Bodhi]

Tbh, the best idea is stick with good ole fossil fuels until we figure Fusion out. Considering the potential of it, the lack of investment in it currently is scandalous.

Big Green as an industry is currently worth $1.5 trillion a year, ITER investment so far - $15 billion. Something there seems very wrong to me...