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[Scouse]

Look! It's peer reviewed and was in one of those posh journals and everything!

Lol! Yeah - and, pertinently, it doesn't say "most NOx actually comes from pine forests" - in fact quite the opposite.


And not really @CorNokZ old bean - Toht's just joining in with the retards in the schoolyard because safety in numbers yo!

Instead, it's just a triple retard combo

 

[Bodhi]

Lol! Yeah - and, pertinently, it doesn't say "most NOx actually comes from pine forests" - in fact quite the opposite.


And not really @CorNokZ old bean - Toht's just joining in with the retards in the schoolyard because safety in numbers yo!

Instead, it's just a triple retard combo

It is a triple retard combo, you, your friend, and your inability to read what is in the fucking opening paragraph. If the amount emitted by one thing (pine forests) is roughly equal to the emission from two things (industry and transport), then it's pretty fair to say that that one thing makes up the biggest chunk. Hence most.

Which is all fairly moot, as I said, there is no real link between levels of NOx in the atmosphere and Asthma. This doesn't fit in with your average Guardian reader's dream of tearing down civilisation and living in mud huts I'll grant you, but it's what the science says. Or does science only count when it agrees with you?

 

[CorNokZ]

Get a bicycle, stop using you car to drive half a mile to Tesco to do groceries, use renewable energy as your primary source of energy, if your commute to work is long then carpool and so forth.

There is no reason to ruin Earth if you have a chance not to. So far, I say we should do our best to protect it until we find another planet with bacon and chocolate

 

[old.Tohtori]

And not really @CorNokZ old bean - Toht's just joining in with the retards in the schoolyard because safety in numbers yo!

Like i've ever needed backup to start something

Although i've seen quite a few "lol guys look it's toht being toht, eh? Eh?" from you and a select few. It's the easy "popular hate" backup

Calling people retards though, kind of enforcing my point aren't ya.

 

[Scouse]

Get a bicycle, stop using you car to drive half a mile to Tesco to do groceries, use renewable energy as your primary source of energy, if your commute to work is long then carpool and so forth.

There is no reason to ruin Earth if you have a chance not to. So far, I say we should do our best to protect it until we find another planet with bacon and chocolate

This.

I'm hardly a guardian reading mud hutter, eh?

 

[Raven]

So, you're having a go at me because NOx emissions are man made, and I was laughing at Bodhi saying they're pine forests. And that makes me stupid?

When did you two get married anyway?

No, just a comment on the whole argument that it is caused by diesel vehicles when it isn't. All this fuss about expensive electric cars when it will make fuck all difference really. In fact, the production of batteries cells, the disposal of said battery cells probably causes more damage than the lifetime of a petrol or diesel engine.

Even thunderstorms cause NO2, ban thunderstorms!

 

[Scouse]

Even thunderstorms cause NO2, ban thunderstorms!

It's all part of the balanced nitrogen cycle. Our contributions imbalance that cycle - so it's sensible to look at our imbalancing contributions (everywhere - carbon etc..)

I agree with your point that current battery technologies aren't up to the job - but battery technologies will change. However, diesel as a car fuel isn't up to the job either - as governments now agree - and whilst there are other more significant sources (agriculture being the main one) are you seriously arguing that we should ignore areas where we can make gains?

 

[Job]

A bike to Tescos eh?
Aaaand the amount of co2 used to get a lettuce on the shelf of a Tesco express dwarfs the co2 for a 1 mile .
And you will be very dissapointed to learn that using your own energy to get yourself there is worse than a car because the calories we consume have 4 times the co2 debt compared to petrol, if you buy it from a supermarket.
Funny old world innit, you will have to grow your own food in your backgarden..let only the rain water it and no using fertilser or pesticide.

 

[Raven]

are you seriously arguing that we should ignore areas where we can make gains?

For the sake of 5-10% then yes, especially when there are no gains at all elsewhere, all we do is offset the emissions to another country, one that doesn't care all that much about emissions.

It boils down to a taxable "thing" though, a small NO2 output creates hand wringing opportunities, where there are hand wringing opportunities there are tax revenues.

There are more important things to care about than NO2 from diesel, such as the land clearance carried out to create biofuels, or the expensive and damaging processes for extracting materials and chemicals for batteries, then there is the fossil fuels burned to power the electric cars, again doing far more damage than they are preventing.

The whole industry is a clusterfuck, it is trying to run when it can't even walk yet.

 

[Scouse]

For the sake of 5-10% then yes, especially when there are no gains at all elsewhere

Your opinion is self defeating and factually incorrect. There've been massive gains in NOx emissions reduction already (many industries have been required to practiaclly elimanate them - and they have) - so cars are the next logical easy win.

Air quality isn't something we should ignore at all - it's a massively important issue - what with us all breathing it to live and all...


Edit: And just because there "other things" to worry about - and I agree, there are - doesn't mean we should not also deal with other problems too - especially when they're problems that we CAN do something about...

 

[Raven]

Yes but a massive faux outrage exercise over 5% is bullshit. If they wanted to make a difference that was noticeable then they would do something about the impact of agriculture, not harass vehicle users.

No, the only reason it is a big deal is that it's an easy short term tax earner.

 

[Gwadien]

 

[Job]

Yes and when you have no education and make s living selling camel shit, that oil worker with a degree is not stealing your job

 

[Moriath]

Yes and when you have no education and make s living selling camel shit, that oil worker with a degree is not stealing your job

Yes and your point ?

 

[Scouse]

No, the only reason it is a big deal is that it's an easy short term tax earner.

I don't know how the gradual phasing out of diesel vehicles (which are responsible for massive amounts of localised NOx emission - (city centres, motorways - places where human beings congregate / live and suffer horrendously) - can be equated with "more tax" (you sound a little 'consipiracy' on this tbh). Or they'd simply tax diesel even more.

It may be 5% of total emmissions - but as usual the situation is more complex - where those emissions take place is hugely important - and if your cities are clogged with particulates, NOx, carbon monoxide yadda yadda yadda then those emissions become seriously important. - Which they are.


People were weirdly similarly funny over the banning of leaded petrol - yet the health benefits were obvious and in the end it was proven to be a good thing. The same thing will happen with diesel - which is a dirty fuel that does our health no good.

 

[Raven]

They are simply taxing diesel more. Especially commercial vehicles, rep mobiles and fleets.

 

[Moriath]

They are simply taxing diesel more. Especially commercial vehicles, rep mobiles and fleets.

I agree. Theres no phasing out as i see it. They put a bit more tax on them but they are still selling by the bucket load.

@Scouse point to a policy of the uk government that says its phasing out diesel cars.

 

[sayward]

Well , call me old fashioned, but if I'm in a B&B I would be a bit uneasy hearing two guys on the next room banging each other up the ass.

It makes no difference what sex they are I don't want to hear it!

 

[BloodOmen]

New Dragonball series starting in july, it will pick up after the Buu saga and basically write off GT as having never existed. Rejoice Dragonball fans.

 

[Bodhi]

Funnily enough the worst NOx emissions come from big diesel engines idling or setting off - so buses and lorries basically, very little from cars in the grand scheme of things. Funnily enough the only time I've ever stood next to a road and found it unpleasant to breathe was Princes Street in Edinburgh, which was only used by buses and taxis. Clean those up and you'll see a massive difference in air quality in cities.

Not that I'm too concerned, as both our cars run on lovely petrol, and nothing comes out the tailpipe except water, plant food, and in the case of the Clio, unicorn farts. I say this as we filled it up in February and still have 2/3rds of a tank left, so I'm not entirely sure what goes into the engine.

 

[old.Tohtori]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aciOOfNHyI

 

[Gwadien]

View: https://youtu.be/YoOaJclkSZg

 

[Job]

Yes and your point ?

That complaining people are stealing your job is obviously about people with the same skillset, a condescending remark demeaning some unknown local as an idiot because some immigrants have degrees is purile.

Anyway, I came to post this, the SIRI team are creating the first real internet interface called VIV.

http://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/a34630/viv-artificial-intelligence-0515/

 

[Gwadien]

That complaining people are stealing your job is obviously about people with the same skillset, a condescending remark demeaning some unknown local as an idiot because some immigrants have degrees is purile.

It's not though really is it?

Let's put this into perspective.

There was a Paranorma about who will win the election, and they went to Skegness to a bingo hall full of old people, who were either too old or weren't in any condition to work in the local farming industry (Where all the European migrants were working) - and these people were voting UKIP.

In the same respect that we do import doctors and other qualified that aren't 'stealing jobs.'

I just wish people would be more honest about xenophobic and not using 'jobs' as a cover - for instance @Job tell me of a relative who would work in one of these positions where immigrants are working.

 

[CorNokZ]

Pine forest overview:

Overview of smoggy central London:

*shakes fist at eeeeeeevil pine forests*

 

[Job]

I work in houses that are being refurbished, in the past five 5 years it has gone from total English to almost total Polish/Hungarian/Romanian, they work hard for less pay because their economies are far poorer than ours, but the guys they have undercut still have to pay the bills in this country.
The system loans them the money for a house and then pulls the rug from underneath them, these fruit picking immigrants are mostly young kids looking for a foot in the door, the reason our kids don't do it anymore is because the wages are worse than the dole.

 

[Tom]

And you will be very dissapointed to learn that using your own energy to get yourself there is worse than a car because the calories we consume have 4 times the co2 debt compared to petrol, if you buy it from a supermarket.

How on earth you manage to get your sphincter to make sounds approximating human speech is a mystery. You should go on Britain's Got Talent.

Only you could suggest that driving a car uses less energy than riding a bicycle.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Only Tom would take offence about a comment about bikes from all the stuff Job has said

 

[Job]

Because it's true, the enormous chain of factories, supporting industries, transportation, loss of forests for meat production, the effect of the packaging rotting in landfills, mean that the calories you use to walk have cost the 'Earth' far more than simply taking oil out of the ground and burning it, if we all grew veg in the back garden that would be much be better, that's why also a large dog in it's lifetime produces more Co2 than a small car.

 

[Raven]

Looks like mist off the Thames to me...