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[Bodhi]

brb lads, moving to Switzerland. Looking forward to Cokenoze piping up calling me a quad-lingual faggot.

I look forward to your neutrality.

 

[Moriath]

I look forward to your neutrality.

Just go to Ireland for that and you can use the same language. The beers better too.

 

[Job]

The new Note4? Thought it had ultra gorilla glass?

No my old Note1..its been cracked for years so decided to do up the old bugger.

 

[CorNokZ]

brb lads, moving to Switzerland. Looking forward to Cokenoze piping up calling me a quad-lingual faggot.

You can hardly handle one language, let alone four, m8

 

[Olgaline]

Bought it, smashed it the next day

 

[Raven]

On a different note, it's all going to kick off in the States again. Whilst I agreed with the Ferguson decision, I'm at a loss for words with today's. Illegal choke holds, coroners ruling homicide and no charges brought. Dafuq?

Yeah, something very wrong there.

 

[Aoami]

Because all things are not equal. Spending 6 years becoming a doctor is not the same as spending 6 months learning how to wire a plug.

Would you extend the one size fits all to housing too? Free housing for all for 10% of all salaries.

Everyone is not equal, and that's why in my opinion it is fair. You are of course right that "Spending 6 years becoming a doctor is not the same as spending 6 months learning how to wire a plug.", but because everyone is not equal, not everyone has the brain capacity to become a doctor, and they need an alternative. By giving everyone a shot at becoming something they are giving every citizen the chance to make benefit great socialist nation of Denmark. Sounds fair enough to me.

If you do a more demanding job, you should get paid more of course. This isn't about who should get paid what though, it's about your country giving you a chance to make something of yourself.

 

[Raven]

My point was that I don't see why a low paid worker, "lesser" educated worker should help pay for the long term education of a future wealthy person. Part of the reason I think student loans are ideal, you only start paying it back after a particular salary level. The debt itself isn't even factored in as personal debt for mortgages and loans and whatnot.
Its basically paid for by the government unless you earn over a certain level at which point you pay for it yourself and is written off eventually anyway.

Plus I think more practical studies should be started at school. Aside from Maths and English (and perhaps a foreign language?) trying to beast someone through geography for example, when they are going to end up working in a car garage is a waste of time for both the school and the student.

 

[Raven]

Also... A further education is open to all in the UK, regardless of how well you did at school, regardless of financial situation. I left school at 16 with no GSCEs, straight into work. I am now doing a degree nearly 20 years later, paid for by a student loan. I will start paying it back when I finish the degree in 4-6 years time. Most of it will be written off though. I earn a decent wage and could probably just about afford the 6k a year its costing but I don't have to.

 

[Aoami]

Also... A further education is open to all in the UK, regardless of how well you did at school, regardless of financial situation. I left school at 16 with no GSCEs, straight into work. I am now doing a degree nearly 20 years later, paid for by a student loan. I will start paying it back when I finish the degree in 4-6 years time. Most of it will be written off though. I earn a decent wage and could probably just about afford the 6k a year its costing but I don't have to.

I don't disagree, but £9k a year is too much to pay for higher education at institutes that are quite frankly crap. £9k at Oxford, Cambridge, LSE etc - fine. A degree from there will get you places. £9k a year for a degree from the Jarrold Stand University of Carrow Road is not ok.

I won't argue with you that it's not avaible to all, but it's not an attractive prospect for all and the decision to pay £9k a year to attend a crap uni and study flower arranging is only going to set you back.

The Danes have a very different view of higher education. They see it as OK to take a year out, spend 5 years at uni, take another year out. Why? Because they can afford to do it, and they will contribute when they get around to it. It definitely doesn't fit in with the British philosophy of getting a job at 16 and working your skin to the bone for crap money until you physically can't any more. Is there an issue with sustaining that system? Possibly - but they might as well enjoy it when they can. It's hardly a fucking barrel of laughs living in the UK at the moment is it?

 

[Raven]

I dunno, I am pretty optimistic about most things at the moment. Both me and my wife are in work, plenty of jobs around if I was to change and two huge new projects within 10 miles of where I live that will bring some 5k more jobs to the area within the next couple of years. She has just finished a degree and I am just starting one.

I think it very much depends on where you live though, seems a bit grim down south and its always grim up north. The East Midlands seem to be booming though. The only thing I am worried about is the working (lol) class moaning about all the immigrants "tekin their jerbs!" in the new industrial areas when they probably wont even apply for employment.

 

[Nate]

The thing is, this money doesn't seem to make the education you receive any better. You would think that some of it would go on bringing in better lecturers..or getting more time with a tutor/lecturer. Doesn't happen though.

 

[Bodhi]

The thing is, this money doesn't seem to make the education you receive any better. You would think that some of it would go on bringing in better lecturers..or getting more time with a tutor/lecturer. Doesn't happen though.

Last time I checked, if you factor in Higher Education standards, we are 6th in the world iirc, just behind Finland. I'd say that's not too shabby at all.

 

[Moriath]

Last time I checked, if you factor in Higher Education standards, we are 6th in the world iirc, just behind Finland. I'd say that's not too shabby at all.

I think he meant improving what is already good.

I think it's because the funding from government was taken away and replaced by the money from these loans. So the institutions ain't that much better off now than before. Admittedly some just got greedy and pushed it to the max fee. But I don't think that it gives them that much more in real terms than they had before it was direct grants from government.

 

[Aoami]

At the end of the day, in this country, a University is a business just like any other. We have a few fantastic red brick Universities, and some very good plate glass ones, but there are c.140 Universities in GB & NI, and only the top 25 or so are worth going to. Anything lower than that is just out to make money.

 

[Nate]

Yeah I'm more in to thinking that if you pay more for something, you get more of something. It seems to be you just pay more.

These articles highlight what I was trying to put across.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/may/15/tuition-fees-rise-18-minutes-teaching
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...ise-in-lectures-despite-tuition-fee-hike.html

and then this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...eaten-marking-boycott-in-ongoing-pay-row.html how fucked up is that, lecturers refuse to mark students work unless they get paid more? Essentially fucking up 3 years and a potentially life long career? Where do they find these selfish cunts..

 

[Moriath]

Think most of my uni life I had ten or less hours a week of lectures. But it got me a good job so don't care how highly the uni was rated. Hint it was an ex poly so you can imagine

 

[Job]

Universities have migrated from finishing schools for the elite to mainstream education and I don't think they or anyone else knows what they want to be..the very exclusivity of the old boys network was it's selling point..banging out the connected with all the right attributes to take charge of the grunts..now every Tom Dick and Harry can go and they are expecting somehow for this to scale up...Uni's have 'reputations'..which is quite simply code for we only bother with the 10%..they are pouring money in hoping somehow good will come out...they are expanding in a time when they should be contracting..it's madness.

 

[Nate]

I don't give a shit about reputation or ratings either, I'd just like to see value for money.

 

[Moriath]

I think there should be a scaling from top universities to lower ones but they all want the top wack of money from their students. So Cambridge get nine grand a year and so does Brighton uni. It doesn't make sense when the facilities in Cambridge and the education provided are probably a lot better.

 

[Nate]

I'm probably going to go local with my degree as I'll save a lot by doing so, I don't like the idea of unnecessary debt, my education may suffer for it as the local universities aren't as equipped as ones in London, Kings College sounds great for research and I'm sure some really amazing stuff happens their that I'd love to be part of.

 

[Moriath]

I didn't have to make that choice really when I was at uni. I just went with the one that didn't require me to get any particular grades on the year of hnd. Was paid for by grants back then.

These days you have to def decided what it's worth to you. Coming out with 27k of debt is a lot to pay back. And it can bite even at the level of wages that you start paying it back. They say it doesn't count against a mortgage but you still have to be able to afford the repayment while paying for the mortgage so it does really.

 

[Raven]

I don't understand how people get hooked on this 27, 30, 40k bollocks. You only pay it back at a tiny rate when you are earning a decent wage, after X amount of years the remainder is written off.

Far better economically than just a hand out. Those who have found a decent job start paying for the thing that helped land that job and those that don't, don't pay it back. Probably the fairest system going.

 

[Job]

My opinion is it doesn't take 27K to teach the amount of knowledge people come out with, degrees take too long, their is FAR too much infrastructure, just bloat on bloat carried over from the days when all that meant something, knowledge itself is going through the greatest upheaval since the printing press and the response from the education system is more of the old.
More buildings, more accommodation, higher paid lecturers, bigger car parks, all because the money is there.
It's all built on sand.

 

[Aoami]

I don't understand how people get hooked on this 27, 30, 40k bollocks. You only pay it back at a tiny rate when you are earning a decent wage, after X amount of years the remainder is written off.

Far better economically than just a hand out. Those who have found a decent job start paying for the thing that helped land that job and those that don't, don't pay it back. Probably the fairest system going.

£100 a month coming out of my account every month is quite a lot when i'm working a decent, honest job and looking to scrape money together to eventually get a mortgage! That's a whole other conversation about ridiculous house prices though.

 

[Gwadien]

Probably the fairest system going.

I doubt that to be honest.

I'm happy with the current system that we have, but there should be more scholarships for those that want to do a course that relates to a career, even if that doesn't mean my course (It is the highest attended course at my University.)

Engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Teachers etc etc should be encouraged to do their courses.

It just seems an extremely unfair system since I have a career plan, meaning that I will probably be paying off my debt very soon, but people that went to uni for the lulz will be doing a dead end job for ever and not paying off the debt.

It should be the other way around.

 

[Moriath]

£100 a month coming out of my account every month is quite a lot when i'm working a decent, honest job and looking to scrape money together to eventually get a mortgage! That's a whole other conversation about ridiculous house prices though.

Depends how small the tiny amount is and it all effects your out goings however small it is. When you need to save 20k for a decent house deposit now it all adds up.

 

[Bodhi]

£100 a month coming out of my account every month is quite a lot when i'm working a decent, honest job and looking to scrape money together to eventually get a mortgage! That's a whole other conversation about ridiculous house prices though.

I came out of uni with about 20k in Student Loans (was there for 6 years...), and must admit I never really notice it coming out of my account - as it never makes it there. It's typically deducted along with tax, think mine is around £200 a month, but your mileage may vary. Tbh, it get's dwarfed by the amount of other taxes coming out every month, so never really bothers me. Small price to pay for all that free money at uni (I'd probably feel different if I had to pay 9k in tuition fees though). However the extra cash I can make thanks to what I learned at uni offsets it very nicely indeed

 

[Moriath]

It's not free money you do pay a small interest rate on it. And it all depends on the job you get after and how successful you get on. 200 a month for someone on 21 k a year which is around the average wage would be quite a bit.

 

[Scouse]

YWhere do they find these selfish cunts..

What are they supposed to do to stand up for themselves. Strike action is the only action to take. They're being offered pay cuts at a time when the heirarchy of Universities are getting massive pay hikes on the back of the fee charging.

Witholding your work is the only real power us plebs have got. - And they don't get paid during a strike so it's not as if it's something that's taken lightly.

A bit more identification with other workers and hatred of their exploitation wouldn't go amiss around here.