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[Gwadien]

Yes. It is. Look at the Nordic countries and how much tax we pay. Now look at all these sources I am providing you with and tell me we are doing the wrong thing

You don't have to read the entire article, so I am just providing you with this picture:

http://www.economist.com/news/speci...are-probably-best-governed-world-secret-their

Danes are the happiest people on Earth - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/p...-worlds-happiest-countries.html?frame=2667866

Denmark is the least corrupt country - http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

All Nordic countries are ranked higher than the UK overall - http://www.prosperity.com/#!/?opts=map


I believe in a welfare system, where I pay a high amount of tax and get the services I should. Meaning that I will never be stuck with a hospital bill if I fall ill, we have great infrastructure, we are capable of relying highly on green energy(all my electricity comes from wind energy and it doesn't cost extra), we have little corruption, there's a safety net for those who fall out of a job, I receive money to take an education which my country pays for. You got your whole school system backwards. Education is an investment in the future of your country, rather than an elitist school system to make millions of pounds.

Finally, a Scandinavian on this forum has spoken up about socialism.

Fuck us.

Why? Its the whole having to be a world competitor which wrecks us.

 

[CorNokZ]

b..but.. taxes are bad

"B-but it's m-muh money??"

 

[Bodhi]

20% on basic income over ten k
40% over 42k
17.5 % on most things
60% on petrol ish
5% on energy for houses
9% on NI

And that's just off the top of my head.

I would say by the time you have the item in your hand you have paid near enough 50% in tax over all.

And of course, in the lovely Scandinavian Socialist Utopias, once you have paid your 50% income tax, nothing else is taxed. That's why Scandinavia is famous for cheap petrol and beer. Oh wait....

Then there is the lovely law of Jante, underpinning all of Scandinavian society, which to me sounds straight out of the North Korean playbook. Don't try and think you're anything special, as you aren't.

And of course the suicide rates are fairly high as well.

Absolutely no way that Scandinavian style economies would work anywhere else other than Scandinavia - you'll probably find it's more due to the Scandi sense of community, brought about by several thousand years living in a freezer. Same way a Western style democracy would never work in the Middle East.

But hey I'm just basing this on speaking to Scandinavians who live over here now, and have seen no real difference in quality of life, just a lot more money in their pocket, and a lot more choice in where they get their services from. Clearly these perfect societies of which you speak don't work for everyone.

 

[Scouse]

cheap petrol and beer.

Ah - the chavvy Brits measure of success.

 

[fettoken]

Ah - the chavvy Brits measure of success.

Burberry is goddamn expensive here in Sweden as well. Think they smacked a 50% tax on that one as well.

 

[Gwadien]

Burberry is goddamn expensive here in Sweden as well. Think they smacked a 50% tax on that one as well.

That's a good idea.

Maybe we should slap a 80% tax on Nike Airs?

Also bring in a Teen pregnancy tax.

 

[Bodhi]

Ah - the chavvy Brits measure of success.

Just two products I know our Viking friends love to tax the shit out of. Doubly amusing considering they mostly seem to be alcoholics over there.

 

[CorNokZ]

Cars, petrol, beer, smokes and lots of other stuff are all highly taxed, yes. But have you seen what we get in return? Again, the scandis you've met over the pond are probably pleased with all the money they have now, but try getting a nice flat in the centre of London for the same amount they could have spent in Copenhagen. And once their children grow up and start running off to uni, who will pay their tuiton fees? Are they leaving that to their children, after they themselves, received free education in Denmark, just so they can buy a new cheap Range Rover? If that is the case, you can keep them.

High suicide rates? Denmark is below the UK, with Norway and Sweden just above you. And would you look at that? Germany and France are also both above you. So pretty weak arguement you got there - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

Denmark is on the same latitude as the UK, so welcome to the freezer m8. It's really cozy. If you look at the concentrations of populations in Denmark, Sweden and Norway, you will see that Oslo, being the most northern capital of the three countries, is on the same latitude as the north of Scotland. Yes, the northern parts of Norway and Sweden can become freezing cold, but hardly anyone lives there compared to the capitals. Here is the population density of Norway*:

And no one gives a shit about the Law of Jante anymore. It was a concept created by a writer back in the 30's(THIRTIES). It is ANCIENT history.

You're grasping at straws here, @Bodhi

*Tell me if you need me to draw a circle around Oslo

 

[CorNokZ]

Just two products I know our Viking friends love to tax the shit out of. Doubly amusing considering they mostly seem to be alcoholics over there.

Danes drink more than Brits on average. Half a litre. That is about a pint to you. Fins drink .1 of a liter more than you do, and Norway, Sweden and Iceland all drink less. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption

Should we keep going?

 

[Billargh]

I vote yes, this is all very interesting to read.

 

[Bodhi]

I am pretty sure the people of which I speak didn't get a free education in Denmark - mostly as they are Norwegian. My brother in law, who works over here now, was so impressed with the Norwegian education system, he went to University in Glasgow. Along with his dad, and most of his friends from Oslo. Things may have changed since then, however as I said, what works for one person definitely doesn't work for another, something socialists always fail to grasp.

Denmark might be alright Jack, but from what I can gather, Sweden are starting to have many of the issues we see over here - segregation, a flagging education system, dubious healthcare for the elderly, erosion of national identity, the odd riot here and there etc. Hardly the land of milk and honey The Guardian would have you believe.

Wouldn't say it's better in Scandinavia at all - just different. Heavy tax bills with lots of free stuff might work for you, I'd rather have lower taxes and choose what I spend my money on.

 

[Scouse]

Just two products I know our Viking friends love to tax the shit out of. Doubly amusing considering they mostly seem to be alcoholics over there.

It's ok tho - they get paid a proper wage. IIRC the minimum wage in one of the scandi countries was 16 euro's/hour ?

It's only expensive to us chavvy brits who go over there and try to spend our slave wages on our chav holiday habits.

 

[Raven]

Odd that the standard of living is pretty much the same though. Its almost as though all that bollocks doesn't actually make any difference to anything.

 

[Scouse]

Odd that the standard of living is pretty much the same though. Its almost as though all that bollocks doesn't actually make any difference to anything.

Doesn't make much difference in your take-home. It's more of an equality issue more than anything else - and considering inequality is societally corrosive...

 

[Raven]

I'm alright, Jack

 

[Scouse]

I'm alright, Jack

I agree. I could easily take that attitude myself.

But then, as I care -even about the plebs - I'd be wrong to

 

[Bodhi]

Odd that the standard of living is pretty much the same though. Its almost as though all that bollocks doesn't actually make any difference to anything.

Bing! We have a winner. It's all very well saying the minimum wage is twice what it is here, but when everything costs twice as much, have you really gained anything?

 

[Moriath]

Bing! We have a winner. It's all very well saying the minimum wage is twice what it is here, but when everything costs twice as much, have you really gained anything?

That's the same in western countries. Not in developing ones tho

 

[old.Tohtori]

Bing! We have a winner. It's all very well saying the minimum wage is twice what it is here, but when everything costs twice as much, have you really gained anything?

Let's see.

Minimum wage 500, rent 150. Left with 350.
Minimum wage 1000, rent 300. Left with 700.

I think you have

 

[georgie]

Bing! We have a winner. It's all very well saying the minimum wage is twice what it is here, but when everything costs twice as much, have you really gained anything?

Let's see.

Minimum wage 500, rent 150. Left with 350.
Minimum wage 1000, rent 300. Left with 700.

I think you have

I think you haven't.

 

[Moriath]

Let's see.

Minimum wage 500, rent 150. Left with 350.
Minimum wage 1000, rent 300. Left with 700.

I think you have

It's not just rent that's double its the rest of the stuffs too

 

[Scouse]

Bing! We have a winner. It's all very well saying the minimum wage is twice what it is here, but when everything costs twice as much, have you really gained anything?

Clearly yes. Free education, better social and healthcare. All the pointers of it being a better country on every measurable.

So yes. You gain a fuckload.

 

[Aoami]

Just two products I know our Viking friends love to tax the shit out of. Doubly amusing considering they mostly seem to be alcoholics over there.

Beer is much cheaper in any bodega (£2-2.50) a bottle than any pub i've been to in the UK in the last 5 years.

I am pretty sure the people of which I speak didn't get a free education in Denmark - mostly as they are Norwegian. My brother in law, who works over here now, was so impressed with the Norwegian education system, he went to University in Glasgow. Along with his dad, and most of his friends from Oslo. Things may have changed since then, however as I said, what works for one person definitely doesn't work for another, something socialists always fail to grasp.

Denmark might be alright Jack, but from what I can gather, Sweden are starting to have many of the issues we see over here - segregation, a flagging education system, dubious healthcare for the elderly, erosion of national identity, the odd riot here and there etc. Hardly the land of milk and honey The Guardian would have you believe.

Wouldn't say it's better in Scandinavia at all - just different. Heavy tax bills with lots of free stuff might work for you, I'd rather have lower taxes and choose what I spend my money on.

Anyone from the EU can go and get a free masters degree in Scandinavia. At some good uni's too - Copenhagen University is ranked very high.

I lived in Copenhagen for 2 years and loved it. It is better than the UK. I had a lot more disposable income there because the wages are ludicrously higher, so even after paying more tax, my take home pay was better. I was paid roughly £30k a year for doing basic kitchen work in a shit cafe. I'm paid less than that 2 years into a decent enough software development role in the UK.

The only issue I ever had (the reason I didn't stay) is that getting somewhere to live can be a massive pain in the arse because it's all done privately. If i'd have found a new flat i'd never have left, but spent the £5k i'd saved up from the last 6 months of doing a shitty kitchen job (whilst going out drinking £2 beers, buying reasonably priced electronics and clothes etc) to go travelling Asia instead.

 

[Scouse]

I was paid roughly £30k a year for doing basic kitchen work in a shit cafe. I'm paid less than that 2 years into a decent enough software development role in the UK.

Nice

More than a nurse, a policeman or a fireman over here.

Add to that the ability to save up. You'd not find dole bludgers in the UK if we paid enough to make work worthwhile.

 

[Raven]

Clearly yes. Free education, better social and healthcare. All the pointers of it being a better country on every measurable.

So yes. You gain a fuckload.

Its not free if you have to pay more tax to pay for it, its just less fair.

 

[Scouse]

Its not free if you have to pay more tax to pay for it, its just less fair.

By your own measure your takehome is no different. By our friends who live there, who are happy with it, your takehome is apparently much more.

30k for kitchen staff. Find me a guy on the dole in the UK who wouldn't jump at getting a job...

 

[Aoami]

Its not free if you have to pay more tax to pay for it, its just less fair.

Why is it less fair?

Everyone is expected to go into some form of higher education in Denmark - whether it's to do something Academic or learn a trade. It's all free. Not sure why that's less fair? Everyone gives, everyone has the opportunity to take.

 

[Aoami]

By your own measure your takehome is no different. By our friends who live there, who are happy with it, your takehome is apparently much more.

30k for kitchen staff. Find me a guy on the dole in the UK who wouldn't jump at getting a job...

ALSO, i paid £450 a month for a nice 1 bedroom city centre flat - find me one of those in London please doubters.

 

[Bodhi]

Clearly yes. Free education, better social and healthcare. All the pointers of it being a better country on every measurable.

So yes. You gain a fuckload.

Interesting. So if it's a better country on every measurable (sic), one would have to ask - why don't you live there then?

 

[Scouse]

Interesting. So if it's a better country on every measurable (sic), one would have to ask - why don't you live there then?

Awww Bodhi. The predictable question of a sore loser.