Rant This carbon footprint bollocks

[kivik]

Global warming doesn't necessarily mean warmer temperatures, but also extreme climate changes. If I remember correct you had a nice flood in England not long ago? Were those a common sight when you were a lad too?

Personally I'm quite unsure whether to believe the threat, and what to do about it.

 

[Raven]

They were actually, worse than the one we had last year, half my town was under water. I also have pictures of floods in the 50, 60s, 70s etc (my Grandad was a keen photographer and local historian)

The fact that we make such a song and dance about it these days is because stupid people build and buy houses on flood plains. There is a warehouse estate outside my village, every single year it floods, before they built it people told them it would flood but they just didn't listen. Its loltastic,

Tis the cars! honest!

MASSIVE FLOODS IN HISTORY

History of The River Thames Flooding Windsor in 1947 by Thamesweb

TopFoto Gallery - British Floods Since 1483

Floods happen, have always happened and will carry on happening forever.

 

[Golena]

If I remember correct you had a nice flood in England not long ago? Were those a common sight when you were a lad too?

The difference between now and 500 years ago is fairly obvious.

The biggest is the media. 500 years ago if there was a flood that killed half the population of Africa you simply wouldn't hear about it. Now we have live video 24/7 as it happens..

Go look at the Nile in Egypt and the fact that people survived there purely because it flooded everything in sight every year. In the UK what we appear to do is wait for the tide to go out, rush down the beach and build 500 houses on the wonderful new land that's just appeared, then look surprised when it floods a few hours later, but on a cycle that lasts 5 years instead of 24 hours.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Yes it does matter seeing as this is about global warming and such, the demand for oil hasn't gone up in the west, if anything its gone down. The reason for the price hike, aside from tax is because the people producing the oil are throttling its supply. There is still plenty of oil to be pumped up and even more yet to be discovered.

Why on earth do you think the US gives a shit about the middle east but not places that truly are fucked, Zimbabwe, North Korea, Burma etc. Its not about the people its about access to oil.

It doesnt matter whether oil demand has gone up or down in the west as the oil market is global. And globally oil demand has gone up.

Did you know that the world has doubled its oil consumption every decade since ww2? We cant support this endless growth forever. And it seems like we have already hit the limits.

Most oil producers in the world have already peaked in their oil production. The ones that havent are Saudi Arabia and Iran, and right now it looks like Saudi Arabia is there too. So what happens when economies keep growing but oil production starts going down? Oil prices go up ;o


And btw, whether global warming is man made or not does not change the fact that its happening. And what kind of an impact do you think it'll have on the global economy if New York, London etc get covered with water? -,-

 

[Raven]

Big, but what are we supposed to do about it? There is fuck all I can do to stop it so why should I care?

 

[Gorbachioo]

Big, but what are we supposed to do about it? There is fuck all I can do to stop it so why should I care?

Well you could avoid starting debates if you're going to announce that everytime you loose. -,-

And you could also suggest that the UK gives up democracy as it clearly isnt working.

 

[Raven]

lol, what do you suggest? you in charge?

 

[Gorbachioo]

lol, what do you suggest? you in charge?

That would work.


But since thats not going to happen. I think something like the chinese system with human rights included could work. Its far from perfect but alot better than ours.

 

[kivik]

They were actually, worse than the one we had last year, half my town was under water. I also have pictures of floods in the 50, 60s, 70s etc (my Grandad was a keen photographer and local historian)

The fact that we make such a song and dance about it these days is because stupid people build and buy houses on flood plains. There is a warehouse estate outside my village, every single year it floods, before they built it people told them it would flood but they just didn't listen. Its loltastic,

Tis the cars! honest!

MASSIVE FLOODS IN HISTORY

History of The River Thames Flooding Windsor in 1947 by Thamesweb

TopFoto Gallery - British Floods Since 1483

Floods happen, have always happened and will carry on happening forever.

Fair enough

 

[kiliarien]

Poor people want to drive cars too, and once they can afford it they will.

I agree - the point stands that there is a carbon (and in fact methane which people seem to forget) emission problem, however only MEDC's (ie. the rich nations) can afford to do anything about it.

Question is; why the f*ck should we bother when we know China & India don't give a shit?? That's over a third of the population of the planet there and they have no plans to sign up to the new set of environmental protocols anytime soon. Besides, it is the western nations that sold all of the out-of-date factories and machinery to the poorer nations anyway, and now we turn around and say, "oh no, you can't use that technology we sold you, but you have to keep paying us back the interest on loans AND buy new expensive technology" - a problem without a solution imho.

Besides, we're meant to be saving the planet for the next generation(s) - well I must be getting old, 'cos kids to me today are acting like a bunch of little pricks anyway, so god knows what will happen to the generation after that - f*ck em :kissit:

 

[old.Tohtori]

That would work.


But since thats not going to happen. I think something like the chinese system with human rights included could work. Its far from perfect but alot better than ours.

And how would this stop a global warming problem?

Raven has a fair point, if we can't stop it, why should we do an ything or even care about it?

 

[kiliarien]

That would work.


But since thats not going to happen. I think something like the chinese system with human rights included could work. Its far from perfect but alot better than ours.

You clearly don't know much about the Chinese industrial and environmental policies. They are not a nice government, even if we disregard their human rights violations. And if you include human rights, the Maoist system doesn't work anyway.

 

[Golena]

Instead or worrying about how to stop global warming, we should instead be asking the question.. How is the human race going to survive global warming?

When they start asking that, I might take some interest.

 

[Gorbachioo]

And how would this stop a global warming problem?

Raven has a fair point, if we can't stop it, why should we do an ything or even care about it?

It would stop global warming because the goverment would be able to handle it without stupid people whining about oil prices and crap like that.

Its kinda like this. The goverments want to solve it, the people want to solve it, but if the goverment takes something away (to solve the problem) from the people the people raise hell.

And raven does not have a fair point. Because if we dont start worrying about these things then they WILL happen and then we'll be screwed.

 

[Gorbachioo]

You clearly don't know much about the Chinese industrial and environmental policies. They are not a nice government, even if we disregard their human rights violations. And if you include human rights, the Maoist system doesn't work anyway.

The chinese are no angels i know that very well. But their system is better than ours.

And lets be honest about this. They are playing the game by the rules, and we invented the rules.

For example. Right now we are expecting developing nations to make much bigger sacrifices to fight global warming than what we are preparing to do. How is that fair?

 

[Gorbachioo]

Instead or worrying about how to stop global warming, we should instead be asking the question.. How is the human race going to survive global warming?

When they start asking that, I might take some interest.

So instead of trying to solve the problem you'll rather just focus on surviving trough it. Okay. Im glad you're not the one making the decisions.

 

[Raven]

It would stop global warming because the goverment would be able to handle it without stupid people whining about oil prices and crap like that.

Its kinda like this. The goverments want to solve it, the people want to solve it, but if the goverment takes something away (to solve the problem) from the people the people raise hell.

And raven does not have a fair point. Because if we dont start worrying about these things then they WILL happen and then we'll be screwed.

I guess you worry about the earth spinning into the sun at any moment too?

 

[old.Tohtori]

It would stop global warming because the goverment would be able to handle it without stupid people whining about oil prices and crap like that.

Its kinda like this. The goverments want to solve it, the people want to solve it, but if the goverment takes something away (to solve the problem) from the people the people raise hell.

And raven does not have a fair point. Because if we dont start worrying about these things then they WILL happen and then we'll be screwed.

I said if we can't stop it what's the point in caring? That is a fair point no matter hwo you look at it.

So you're saying, that we should get a governing system that denies whining about oil prices and did whatever it deemed necessary?

Wouldn't that remove all freedom and choice from people?

 

[Golena]

So instead of trying to solve the problem you'll rather just focus on surviving trough it. Okay. Im glad you're not the one making the decisions.

All we are really doing with global warming is effecting the timing that these things are happening at.
The ice caps are going to melt again, just as they have melted before in the past when there were no cars..

All people can really say about global warming is that we think that humans might have something to do with it maybe. The biggest thing that makes a difference to the temperature and climate of the earth is the sun. The sun isn't a constant, but a big reactor constantly changing how much energy it spews out.

Instead of devoting all our energy to making sure nothing ever changes, which basically relies on us controlling the output of the sun (good luck with that!) we should be concentrating on adapting to the fact that the conditions on the earth will change. Instead we're bickering about if we want to get wiped out in 2020 or 2025.

If a train was steaming towards you, would you try and build a wall between yourself and the train that would absorb the impact and keep you safe, or would you step out of it's way? Currently your trying to build a wall.

 

[Raven]

exactly, also add to that the fact that humans only produce a tiny amount of the greenhouse gases and you will start to see what an utter waste of time it is.

 

[old.Tohtori]

The main cause of pollution?

Anyone?



Housing!

75% if i remember correctly, heat related pollution. So i guess Gorb would put us in tents on the antarctica as a "fix"

 

[Golena]

And he'd also do all this while saving every African while he was at it apparently..

 

[Gorbachioo]

I said if we can't stop it what's the point in caring? That is a fair point no matter hwo you look at it.

So you're saying, that we should get a governing system that denies whining about oil prices and did whatever it deemed necessary?

Wouldn't that remove all freedom and choice from people?

So whos gonna stop it if not we?

Yes that is what i am saying. But more specificly: The kind that doesnt give any power to the whiners. They can whine all they want as long as they dont have any power.

That is exactly what it would do. But if you look at the people for example on this forum, can you honestly say that they are capable of running their countries? And i think whats happening in the world right now (and what has happened) is proof of the fact that they cant.

 

[old.Tohtori]

1: So whos gonna stop it if not we?

2: Yes that is what i am saying. But more specificly: The kind that doesnt give any power to the whiners. They can whine all they want as long as they dont have any power.

3:That is exactly what it would do. But if you look at the people for example on this forum, can you honestly say that they are capable of running their countries? And i think whats happening in the world right now (and what has happened) is proof of the fact that they cant.

1: Again, not the point, if we CAN'T. That was the point. get over it.

2: Then you should feel real happy in a dictatorship or somewhere else where they don't give into whining, they just shoot them or lock them up. Stupid stupid stupid. Democracy was to give freedom, and as such, human rights can't exist if you limit people freedoms.

3: If i look at you, i can't. I just pray to gods every waking minute that you never get anywhere near power.

 

[Gorbachioo]

All we are really doing with global warming is effecting the timing that these things are happening at.
The ice caps are going to melt again, just as they have melted before in the past when there were no cars..

All people can really say about global warming is that we think that humans might have something to do with it maybe. The biggest thing that makes a difference to the temperature and climate of the earth is the sun. The sun isn't a constant, but a big reactor constantly changing how much energy it spews out.

Instead of devoting all our energy to making sure nothing ever changes, which basically relies on us controlling the output of the sun (good luck with that!) we should be concentrating on adapting to the fact that the conditions on the earth will change. Instead we're bickering about if we want to get wiped out in 2020 or 2025.

If a train was steaming towards you, would you try and build a wall between yourself and the train that would absorb the impact and keep you safe, or would you step out of it's way? Currently your trying to build a wall.

That is a fair point. If there is nothing we can do about it then ofcourse we should prepare for it. But if we can delay it with say a hundred years then i would say thats worth the effort. But i dont have enough facts to talk about this so dunno.

 

[Gorbachioo]

1: Again, not the point, if we CAN'T. That was the point. get over it.

2: Then you should feel real happy in a dictatorship or somewhere else where they don't give into whining, they just shoot them or lock them up. Stupid stupid stupid. Democracy was to give freedom, and as such, human rights can't exist if you limit people freedoms.

3: If i look at you, i can't. I just pray to gods every waking minute that you never get anywhere near power.

1: Yes we can. We as in the people in Europe/America/India/every other democracy out there.

2: I did say "Chinese system with human rights included". Democracy does not equal freedom. The only "human right" it would restrict is the peoples ability to affect decision making in their country. (which is not a bad thing)

3: Answer the question. Are these people capable of running a country?

 

[old.Tohtori]

1: Yes we can. We as in the people in Europe/America/India/every other democracy out there.

2: I did say "Chinese system with human rights included". Democracy does not equal freedom. The only "human right" it would restrict is the peoples ability to affect decision making in their country. (which is not a bad thing)

3: Answer the question. Are these people capable of running a country?

1: AGAIN AND AGAIN i say to you, IF, concept, IF...as in...no other way...IF we couldn't. That was the point, stop twisting it. It's not a matter of can or can't we, but IF we couldn't.

2: And that's bullsh*t, you say we need to discuss and vote to help people in africa, yet you want people taken out of th system. So which is it?

3: I did, you're not.

 

[Raven]

Are these people capable of running a country?

Are you? or are you just a nutjob hypocrite, you whine about global warming and you whine about the poor little Africans.

When are you setting off on foot (can't use petrol now can you) to feed them? Or are you just sitting in middle class suburbia whining to make yourself feel better?

 

[Gorbachioo]

1: AGAIN AND AGAIN i say to you, IF, concept, IF...as in...no other way...IF we couldn't. That was the point, stop twisting it. It's not a matter of can or can't we, but IF we couldn't.

2: And that's bullsh*t, you say we need to discuss and vote to help people in africa, yet you want people taken out of th system. So which is it?

3: I did, you're not.

1: But we can, so whats the point in talking about that? But just so you wont get cranky i'll answer it:

No. If you cant change something then you dont need to worry about it. Happy now?

2. I want to get rid of the system but as long as thats not happening we have to work within the system. Clear now? -,-


3: No you didnt. Are these people capable of running a country? We now know i am not, but are they?

 

[Gorbachioo]

Are you? or are you just a nutjob hypocrite, you whine about global warming and you whine about the poor little Africans.

When are you setting off on foot (can't use petrol now can you) to feed them? Or are you just sitting in middle class suburbia whining to make yourself feel better?

Well i think i am. But im not suggesting that i should become the dictator of the world.

And yes i whine, you obviously dont. Someones gotta do it so that you can continue living your care free middle class life without any interruptions.

We have discussed this before. And btw, i started this discussion by stating that the whole conserving thing is pointless.