Rant This carbon footprint bollocks

[old.Tohtori]

1: But we can, so whats the point in talking about that? But just so you wont get cranky i'll answer it:

No. If you cant change something then you dont need to worry about it. Happy now?

2. I want to get rid of the system but as long as thats not happening we have to work within the system. Clear now? -,-


3: No you didnt. Are these people capable of running a country? We now know i am not, but are they?

1: Finally, took you long enough. The point of talking about it is that you twisted the original point completely to fit your point. So, i kept it ON point.

2: That's avoiding the double standards you have on the issue. You want people to vote, but you want a governing system that doesn't allow voting. In other words, a system where noone votes. As said, double standards so choose your side or get out.

3:I have no opinion on "these people", as most of them, i think all, are not even trying to get into power like you. I see a problem, iow, you trying to get in power and i say my piece.

 

[Raven]

continue living your care free middle class life without any interruptions.

Its actually nearer working class, granddad was a soldier then an engineer dad was a soldier now a nutjob. I work in the building trade. But yeah its pretty care free, as much as it can be under a money grabbing labour government. I earn my money and don't see why I should spend out to look after the lazy and the hardup. I enjoy my life when I can afford to and ask for nothing for free, what gives others the right to be lazy? Why should I give a shit if some layabout in abi dabi cba to grow his own crops? Why should I care that there is to much smog in China? Or idiots who build their houses on the sand get washed into the sea?

 

[Gorbachioo]

1: Finally, took you long enough. The point of talking about it is that you twisted the original point completely to fit your point. So, i kept it ON point.

2: That's avoiding the double standards you have on the issue. You want people to vote, but you want a governing system that doesn't allow voting. In other words, a system where noone votes. As said, double standards so choose your side or get out.

3:I have no opinion on "these people", as most of them, i think all, are not even trying to get into power like you. I see a problem, iow, you trying to get in power and i say my piece.

2: Come on, you cant be that stupid. I dont want the current system, but its not going anywhere so if i want things done i need to work with it. Why is that so hard to understand?

3: But they are in power. They are the ones who control their countries. So i'll ask once more: Are they capable of doing it?

 

[old.Tohtori]

2: Come on, you cant be that stupid. I dont want the current system, but its not going anywhere so if i want things done i need to work with it. Why is that so hard to understand?

3: But they are in power. They are the ones who control their countries. So i'll ask once more: Are they capable of doing it?

2: It's not stupid, you clearly have a double standard on the issue.

Don't you want a sytem where people can't effect decicion making? And...don't you want people to effect decicion making by voting?

It's not hard to understand, it's hard to understand the blindness to your own double standard.

3: So are we talking about the people in power or the people on this forum(like you initially insuated?)

 

[Gorbachioo]

Its actually nearer working class, granddad was a soldier then an engineer dad was a soldier now a nutjob. I work in the building trade. But yeah its pretty care free, as much as it can be under a money grabbing labour government. I earn my money and don't see why I should spend out to look after the lazy and the hardup. I enjoy my life when I can afford to and ask for nothing for free, what gives others the right to be lazy? Why should I give a shit if some layabout in abi dabi cba to grow his own crops? Why should I care that there is to much smog in China? Or idiots who build their houses on the sand get washed into the sea?

Im sure your life is hard and so on, but i think you need to realise that 90% of the people on this planet have it harder than you. Some of them A LOT harder than you. (And yes, i have it easy too. Everyone knows that. The difference is that im gratefull for that)

Im not saying you should support lazy people. Im saying you should support people who want to work but cant because if they do that someone will chop their head off. As for the smog in China.... well thats not your problem. As long as it doesnt get here.

 

[Gorbachioo]

2: It's not stupid, you clearly have a double standard on the issue.

Don't you want a sytem where people can't effect decicion making? And...don't you want people to effect decicion making by voting?

It's not hard to understand, it's hard to understand the blindness to your own double standard.

3: So are we talking about the people in power or the people on this forum(like you initially insuated?)

2: Oh jesus.... ;o I dont want the system but the system isnt going anywhere so if i want to make a difference i have to work with it? Why is this unclear? Why does that mean i have double standards? Are you stupid? -,-

3: The people in power are the people in this forum (people in this forum means normal people unless you didnt figure that out yet). Are they capable of running their countries?

 

[Bugz]

Roundabouts and swings!

 

[old.Tohtori]

2: Oh jesus.... ;o I dont want the system but the system isnt going anywhere so if i want to make a difference i have to work with it? Why is this unclear? Why does that mean i have double standards? Are you stupid? -,-

3: The people in power are the people in this forum (people in this forum means normal people unless you didnt figure that out yet). Are they capable of running their countries?

2: Not the point. Stop avoiding it and answer what i said. It's not unclear, it's just a different point. Look at point 1 and what happened, you're doing it again. No, i'm not stupid, i just keep on the topic.

3: The people on this forum aren't running the system, people in the cabinets etc, people in power, etc, are. You can ask me if those people are cabable of running things, but not if fellow members of this forum are.

 

[Raven]

90% of the people on this planet have it harder than you.

Poor them, maybe they should get off their arses and do something about it then?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Poor them, maybe they should get off their arses and do something about it then?

Funny thing, Gorb will probably call you an a-hole or something, ignorant etc for saying that, but when i was unemployed and couldn't find a job even with trying, he called me lazy etc.

 

[Gorbachioo]

2: Not the point. Stop avoiding it and answer what i said. It's not unclear, it's just a different point. Look at point 1 and what happened, you're doing it again. No, i'm not stupid, i just keep on the topic.

3: The people on this forum aren't running the system, people in the cabinets etc, people in power, etc, are. You can ask me if those people are cabable of running things, but not if fellow members of this forum are.

We live in democracies and democracies are controlled by the people. Sometimes that is not the case but if people choose so they will have the last word.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Funny thing, Gorb will probably call you an a-hole or something, ignorant etc for saying that, but when i was unemployed and couldn't find a job even with trying, he called me lazy etc.

How could i not call him an ignorant asshole for saying that? I MEAN COME ON! Are you seriously defending that?


I never called you lazy for not having work. I said you have nothing to be bitter about.

And you still havent answered me. Are normal people capable of running their countries?

 

[old.Tohtori]

How could i not call him an ignorant asshole for saying that? I MEAN COME ON! Are you seriously defending that?

I never called you lazy for not having work. I said you have nothing to be bitter about.

And you still havent answered me. Are normal people capable of running their countries?

Not defending, but you've taken the point on me many times that "there's work if you find it" etc. Don't try and deny that you've thought and aid that i would get work if i wanted. Which, as one might assume, is not what you think of the other people.

I haven't answered because there's nothing to answer(even if you've avoided all my questions too). The people on this forum, i have no problem or opinion on. If someone asked if Bugz(example) was cabable of running the UK, i'd have to see his opinions etc before judging that.

If you ask me are the people running the country NOW cabable of doing so, i'd asnwer "countries seem to be runnig ok, not perfect, but ok".

So if you really anally want an answer to your very flamebaiting question, the answer is "as good as anyone".

 

[Gorbachioo]

Not defending, but you've taken the point on me many times that "there's work if you find it" etc. Don't try and deny that you've thought and aid that i would get work if i wanted. Which, as one might assume, is not what you think of the other people.

I haven't answered because there's nothing to answer(even if you've avoided all my questions too). The people on this forum, i have no problem or opinion on. If someone asked if Bugz(example) was cabable of running the UK, i'd have to see his opinions etc before judging that.

If you ask me are the people running the country NOW cabable of doing so, i'd asnwer "countries seem to be runnig ok, not perfect, but ok".

So if you really anally want an answer to your very flamebaiting question, the answer is "as good as anyone".

No. Our countries are not okay. Trust me we are heading for a lot of trouble sooner than you might think. And we havent done a single thing to prevent it.

You keep telling me that i ignore your questions but then you NEVER point out the questions/comments ive ignored. So how about now?

So you make no difference between the average joe and someone who has based his hole career on politics? Ok.. ;O

 

[old.Tohtori]

No. Our countries are not okay. Trust me we are heading for a lot of trouble sooner than you might think. And we havent done a single thing to prevent it.

You keep telling me that i ignore your questions but then you NEVER point out the questions/comments ive ignored. So how about now?

So you make no difference between the average joe and someone who has based his hole career on politics? Ok.. ;O

They are ok enough, not perfect as i said, but they are working as in "i'm living and getting fed aren't i".

I can point out them, well enough:

Do you think we should vote to help africa and such, in other words, vote to make a difference?
AND
Do you think we need a government that doesn't allow people to effect the way forward?

Those two were the points YOU made, and that are in contradiction.

About your last point, no, i do believe there's a difference, ofcourse there is, it's only logical, but i can't say if THIS guy or THAT guy is better at it. Only thing that tells me if they should be in power is the way they act, think and say things. So, i can't judge forum members 'cause i haven't checked on it, only people i can judge on the matter, are the ones i HAVE checked on.

 

[Gorbachioo]

They are ok enough, not perfect as i said, but they are working as in "i'm living and getting fed aren't i".

I can point out them, well enough:

Do you think we should vote to help africa and such, in other words, vote to make a difference?
AND
Do you think we need a government that doesn't allow people to effect the way forward?

Those two were the points YOU made, and that are in contradiction.

About your last point, no, i do believe there's a difference, ofcourse there is, it's only logical, but i can't say if THIS guy or THAT guy is better at it. Only thing that tells me if they should be in power is the way they act, think and say things. So, i can't judge forum members 'cause i haven't checked on it, only people i can judge on the matter, are the ones i HAVE checked on.

You get to eat now but the disasters just keep piling up. Honestly i cant guarantee that that will be the case in 20 years. So is it "working"? ;O


I can only give you the answer i have given twice before. I dont want the current system but since its not going anywhere i have to work with it if i want things done. If i dont then im shutting myself out from the political process. No contradiction there.

Im not talking about individuals. Im talking about the average of the nation. Now for christsake just answer me now. Is the average person capable of running a country? (In western Europe for example)

 

[old.Tohtori]

You get to eat now but the disasters just keep piling up. Honestly i cant guarantee that that will be the case in 20 years. So is it "working"? ;O


I can only give you the answer i have given twice before. I dont want the current system but since its not going anywhere i have to work with it if i want things done. If i dont then im shutting myself out from the political process. No contradiction there.

Im not talking about individuals. Im talking about the average of the nation. Now for christsake just answer me now. Is the average person capable of running a country? (In western Europe for example)

You're doing it again

At the moment, which we are talking about, is working well enough.

You have given that answer, but it's not for the questions. Just answer the questions at hand, straight up, direct and based on your previous statements.

Oik, you're talking about the average person, ofcourse not, as you yourself said "am i comparing the average joe to someone with political training". As such, noone who isn't going into politics, or has political training, isn't fit to un things. Logical, don't even know why you ask that.

 

[Raven]

Gorbachioo would make a good MP actually

Talks utter bollocks
Completely avoids the questions
Ignores everyones point of view
Has no idea about the real world

 

[Gorbachioo]

You're doing it again

1. At the moment, which we are talking about, is working well enough.

2.. You have given that answer, but it's not for the questions. Just answer the questions at hand, straight up, direct and based on your previous statements.

3. Oik, you're talking about the average person, ofcourse not, as you yourself said "am i comparing the average joe to someone with political training". As such, noone who isn't going into politics, or has political training, isn't fit to un things. Logical, don't even know why you ask that.

1. Cant you just admit you're wrong? Even the average FH user sees trough that.

2. what?

3. again, what?

You keep telling me i avoid your questions when you never answer mine. Ive already won this little debate a thousand times but you just cant seem to admit it.

And raven: So far you havent proven any of my points wrong. Do that before you start insulting me ;>

 

[Iceforge]

Argh! The Global Warming takes new levels in this one, doesn't it?

I mean, come on? Carbon Footprint? According to wiki, defined as:

"a measure of the impact human activities have on the environment in terms of the amount of green house gases produced, measured in units of carbon dioxide" (wiki source: Carbon Footprint - Calculate, Reduce and Offset - Welcome to Carbon Footprint

So, it is the good old fashion CO2 talk that is back on the table.

Take note of 2 things:

1) it has ALWAYS been going up and down.

2) Notice what excatly it tells you.

It doesn't tell you that CO2 causes the temperature to raise. It tell you that one of the following:

A) CO2 makes it become hotter (Global Warming proponents way of putting it)
B) Heat produces CO2
C) Something causes both heat and CO2 to go up.

Now, I wouldn't bring this up except that each time I've asked anyone beliving in the CO2 = Global Warming hype, the only evidence pushed forth is usually graphs excatly like this.

Worse, if you look at the graph you will see that the temperature is quite quick to change and then the CO2 level changes gradually in comparison, indicating that it is more likely B that is the answer than A in the above.

Think most scientists belive CO2 to be a problem?
Find a statistic that doesn't just asks if they belive in Global Warming... I mean, come on, Global Warming = it is becoming hotter, and it is, currently, getting hotter, so ofc they belive in Global Warming, it would be like an eskimo claiming not to belive in a hoax if they said otherwise, watch for a survey that actually asks if they belive CO2 is the cause of Global Warming.... (and post it here if you can find it, because I can't)

But hey, I might be the mislead one, but until I see some evidence, I am going to remain sceptical... 30-40 years ago, people was afraid of global cooling, before that of global warming... this planet just goes through cycles of temperatures going up, and then cycles of temperatures going down, really nothing to be afraid off.

But sure, recycling and stuff is good, no reason to be a pig and trash the place up just because we can, but the madness needs an end at some point.

 

[Lamp]

In the old days, our rubbish used to be collected regular as clockwork once a week dead early in the morning.

Now they collect once a fortnight at whatever time best suits them

We used to get a first post and a second post. First post was on the doormat at 7am.

Now you're lucky to get it before midday.

Recycle this, recycle that. Make sure you use the right bins or the bin police will fine you !

Now our post offices are going.

/growl

 

[Raven]

good'ol labour

 

[kiliarien]

Argh! The Global Warming takes new levels in this one, doesn't it?

I mean, come on? Carbon Footprint? According to wiki, defined as:

"a measure of the impact human activities have on the environment in terms of the amount of green house gases produced, measured in units of carbon dioxide" (wiki source: Carbon Footprint - Calculate, Reduce and Offset - Welcome to Carbon Footprint

So, it is the good old fashion CO2 talk that is back on the table.

Take note of 2 things:

1) it has ALWAYS been going up and down.

2) Notice what excatly it tells you.

It doesn't tell you that CO2 causes the temperature to raise. It tell you that one of the following:

A) CO2 makes it become hotter (Global Warming proponents way of putting it)
B) Heat produces CO2
C) Something causes both heat and CO2 to go up.

Now, I wouldn't bring this up except that each time I've asked anyone beliving in the CO2 = Global Warming hype, the only evidence pushed forth is usually graphs excatly like this.

Worse, if you look at the graph you will see that the temperature is quite quick to change and then the CO2 level changes gradually in comparison, indicating that it is more likely B that is the answer than A in the above.

Think most scientists belive CO2 to be a problem?
Find a statistic that doesn't just asks if they belive in Global Warming... I mean, come on, Global Warming = it is becoming hotter, and it is, currently, getting hotter, so ofc they belive in Global Warming, it would be like an eskimo claiming not to belive in a hoax if they said otherwise, watch for a survey that actually asks if they belive CO2 is the cause of Global Warming.... (and post it here if you can find it, because I can't)

But hey, I might be the mislead one, but until I see some evidence, I am going to remain sceptical... 30-40 years ago, people was afraid of global cooling, before that of global warming... this planet just goes through cycles of temperatures going up, and then cycles of temperatures going down, really nothing to be afraid off.

But sure, recycling and stuff is good, no reason to be a pig and trash the place up just because we can, but the madness needs an end at some point.

Well there's no point going into detail on FH, won't be read, but the Vostok ice shelf isn't even to being the best example. The ablation in the arctic is more relevant to those in europe, especially as it might shift the thermohaline conveyor and the gulf streams for those in mainland europe and the UK.

I stand with what I said earlier though - with the twatty kids we have today, why save em?? :kissit:

 

[Golena]

You get to eat now but the disasters just keep piling up. Honestly i cant guarantee that that will be the case in 20 years. So is it "working"? ;O

The disasters keep piling up?

You mean in the same way they have been happening for the last 16 million years?

The only difference between then and now is that these days we have global media coverage, so when an earthquake hits China, we actually find out about it.

 

[Iceforge]

Well, Killarien, another point that make me stay very sceptic towards this, is that the scientists that work in the field got next to no motivation to prove their own theories wrong.

Their current theories predicts that doom is incoming to humanity unless they can make some scientific breakthrough, hence they get loads of funding, so if they started disproving claims and test their research very critically (like science always should) and did find it to be wrong, it would mean a lot of them loosing their jobs.

Can't think of any other branch of science that got that kind of interest in not proving itself wrong. I mean, even if Evolutionary Theory was proven wrong somehow, it would not mean the subject of the origin of species was any less important, actually it would become more important to research the field than ever because it would be a major setback in our understanding.

Hence I see reason to doubt it. Not that I don't live an quite eco-friendly lifestyle, I just think the madness and media hype about it is overdoing it a bit too much

 

[Gorbachioo]

The disasters keep piling up?

You mean in the same way they have been happening for the last 16 million years?

The only difference between then and now is that these days we have global media coverage, so when an earthquake hits China, we actually find out about it.

Peak oil, water depletion, global warming, population growth. All of these problems are problems that have been completely ignored. (except for global warming but even then nothing has happened)

 

[Golena]

Peak oil, water depletion, global warming, population growth. All of these problems are problems that have been completely ignored. (except for global warming but even then nothing has happened)

I think you'll probably find they really haven't been completely ignored.

The thing about the media is that you have to be very careful what you actually tell the average citizen over it. Go watch any disaster movie and you'll find that if the government know that impending doom is incomming, they will try their utmost to ensure they have the answer before going to the press to announce that they know there's a problem.

The simple reason for that is that admitting there's a problem tends not to cause your average mob to pull together and find a solution. Take the fuel strikes. You only need to mention the possibility and every pump in the country will run dry as people rush to hoard as much as possible just in case, so we run out of fuel despite not actually changing the overall demand or supply of it.

The governments tell you what they think you need to and want to know. I'll bet all my money on the fact that they know full well what the problems are already, they just haven't worked out the answer they are going with yet. And you won't hear them mention the problem until they have that answer.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I've already won this little debate a thousand times but you just cant seem to admit it.

Ok, this just pushed it from "being Gorb" to "Being a zealot".

No point in even tryiing to talk with you, you're a hypocritical dick nd that's that. ALL can see that.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Ok, this just pushed it from "being Gorb" to "Being a zealot".

No point in even tryiing to talk with you, you're a hypocritical dick nd that's that. ALL can see that.

Its impossible to talk with you because you never admit your losses. You just dance around the questions.

Just to prove my point: Are normal people/the average guy/whatever, you get the point capable of running their countries? (ive asked this like 4 times now and you still havent answered me)

 

[Gorbachioo]

I think you'll probably find they really haven't been completely ignored.

The thing about the media is that you have to be very careful what you actually tell the average citizen over it. Go watch any disaster movie and you'll find that if the government know that impending doom is incomming, they will try their utmost to ensure they have the answer before going to the press to announce that they know there's a problem.

The simple reason for that is that admitting there's a problem tends not to cause your average mob to pull together and find a solution. Take the fuel strikes. You only need to mention the possibility and every pump in the country will run dry as people rush to hoard as much as possible just in case, so we run out of fuel despite not actually changing the overall demand or supply of it.

The governments tell you what they think you need to and want to know. I'll bet all my money on the fact that they know full well what the problems are already, they just haven't worked out the answer they are going with yet. And you won't hear them mention the problem until they have that answer.

Yeah i get that. But what have they done?

population growth?

peak oil?

water depletion?

global warming?

These are massive problems and require massive solutions. The kind that are quite hard to keep a secret.