The Perfect Solution for Heavy Tanks and RvR

[Stasi]

make spells slower and remove stun and mezz and give root as said abow.
and reduse block rate on shields so its possibel to arrow down a scout that got shield up

 

[Jika]

make spells slower and remove stun and mezz and give root as said abow.
and reduse block rate on shields so its possibel to arrow down a scout that got shield up

so albs will use minstrel as cc then ? if u mean to remove them from casters etc

 

[-TDA-Shaki]

and reduse block rate on shields so its possibel to arrow down a scout that got shield up

Then what do warriors do when they spec 50 in shield, gimp there already shakey defence too ?

Casters have gained immensly from TOA whilst heavy tanks are left behind, my warrior even with ra's and ml's dosent have 1 single interupt (not counting throw weapon due to 11sec fumble), vs a caster 1on1 i have no chance, you ever played a tank whilst a theurg spams 15 ice pets on you, not much chance to catch him really.

Heavy tanks are only good defending casters against other tanks, and we all know NF is brynja bridge camping and fotm caster grps, yes i have roamed, yes i have stood in keeps for hours unable to do anything. Give warriors a real role, cause extra hp and a large shield dont mean shit.

My reccomendations based on heavy tanks (Arms, Warr, and hero)

1) Give some kind of interupt, pref not realm abilities, but in spec or ml's and also not 1 that gimps us for 10+ sec.

2) If casters are to remain as powerful, give AOM 2 as class specific item.

3) For speccing high in shield, make shield more adaptable rather than use purely for block or slam, i mean a scout can have the same utility from his shield as i do 50 spec large shield ( apart from guard ) ?!?

4) Give ml/ra ability such as twf but perhaps chars in this zone are immune to magic damage for the time its up forcing tanks to enter area for combat?

5) Give tanks decent ml paths, cause battlemaster and warlord sux so much, fights dont last long enuff to use 2 ml styles to shear buffs.

and far more just cba to list them all here....

Even in vendo now i cry for the lvl 15 warrior who thinks its great when he 2 hits a blue con snake, thinking his warrior will grow strong, then perhaps he just plays pve.

 

[Roadie]

How about a spell turn for tanks ? I bet you'd love that.

be quite nice on my merc actualy, i couldnt realy care less whos more usefull in rvr, casters or tanks since i have both

yes there are alot of ways to shut down mele, but there are also alot of ways to shut down casters...thats what i was trying to say.

If you have a caster and healer only group you will get owned by groups with a tank in, but if you have a group with no casters in you will probably get owned by a group with casters if they have a heavy tank

i dont rly see whats wrong with that.

 

[[NO]Subedai]

tanks probably have the edge in fg rvr, but only about 5-10% of population partakes in that. While casters certainly have the edge in most situations which evolve in NF. so its very hard to balance heavy tanks more against casters as itll make em even more better in fg fights.

i can understand many of the concerns a heavy tank has in rvr agasint casters, atleast as a berserker i can charge and hit some bl stuff off as interrupt so i dont get nuked, but heavy tanks in grp can use this as it stops nukes at them also, and once in close range ull generally have the upperhand. as a zerk i have 5 interrpts, battler-3bl's and and FW dot charge. Most heavy tanks will have battler to interrupt, even if useless against casters it stops atleast 2-3 nukes in its time.

zerg=casters rule
fg fight= tanks rule ( in general, ild persoanlly want 1 caster atleast in a grp )

I would like the idea of a spell turn for tanks, like 6s pulse and have it on a heavy tank of each realm, (arms,hero,warrior), would make em more viable against casters for sure while probaly not being overpowered, but just helpful.

 

[Beltorak]

Its like Subedai says that caster do have the upperhand in overall/general roaming in semigrps but in fg i lub playing with 1 mind sorc, 2 mercs 1 friar 2 clerics 1 mincer 1 Theurg/reaver. That grp will rip any casters apart.They will struggle to get any spells at all (including healers/druids ofc)

 

[Bracken]

in fg i lub playing with 1 mind sorc, 2 mercs 1 friar 2 clerics 1 mincer 1 Theurg/reaver.

No heavy tank in there

 

[Konah]

I would like the idea of a spell turn for tanks, like 6s pulse and have it on a heavy tank of each realm, (arms,hero,warrior), would make em more viable against casters for sure while probaly not being overpowered, but just helpful.

like this idea. i do agree tbh, that heavy tanks do need to add smth to a grp. cos light tanks do better dmg, pure and simple. so if a heavy tank doesnt do the dmg what does he do? stand around slamming and changing bg? plenty other classes can do that... usually with more utility. perhaps make Battlemaster only available to heavy tanks.

 

[Jeroma]

To get back to the original idea of large shields partially blocking magic damage I'd say it would be interesting. Already you can block half the damage from bolters so why not from other types of magic damage and for your guarded buddy as well? Of course that would give heavy tanks an even more defencive role than it already is. Being a warrior I'm of course biasied in this since it would give me a boast but I dont think it would be a very big change.

If your a light tank you know you have to swich target if a player is bodyguarded, why would it be so horrible if mages would have to do the same to get max damage output if their first target absorbed some of the damage? Imo the more things you have to pay attention to and adapt your strategy to the opponent in a fight the better it feels if you actually come out on top of the encounter.

 

[Garbannoch]

pre NF the tank world was divided into determination and non-determination tanks
now it's charge and non-charge tanks

The problem has nothing to do with mages but with an overpowered RA that makes most tanks without charge useless - royal fuckup by Mythic to nerf determination and at the same time introduce an even more fucked up RA.

Moreover classes on their own cannot be balanced: in 90% of the cases a sorc will kill a bard, a bonedancer will kill a cleric, etc etc.
So how do you want to balance classes? With focus on soloing, 8vs8 or zerg fights? For each of those three you would have to make different class changes to be balanced.

 

[Riddcully]

Give all pure tanks access to charge would be simple and a good start imo

Adenn 50 arms
Riddcully 50 sorc
Flufferbot 48 BB

 

[lofff]

rather remove/nerf charge, its some stupid shit for an RA xD

 

[Yurka]

put armsmen down to chain/scale and give both the utility of warrior to armsmen and heros. I.E. spec allowing 50 1h/ 50 2hd / 50 shield / 28 parry, then give something like SB3 as their rr5 ability (for free).

Allow hero to keep his stag util,
Armsmen could then either get some more abs (or armor transforms into plate for XX amount of time)
Warrior something else ;p

Then allow quick not to decrease their dmg, so gogo big hits with full quick

Could also throw BAOD in there aswell ;o

 

[Castus]

'For the sake of this argument, I want to set aside all of the exceptional players who have strong guilds and alliances who RvR regularly together. For those of you who fit into the aforementioned description, the issue of Tank survivability and overall usefulness in RvR may not be big a problem for you. What you, and Mythic must realize, is that players such as yourselves are the exception, and you do not represent the average player. /salute! `


So what are these Tanks doing so differant then that joe bloggs can`t also do in a grp for rvr?

 

[Kais]

So what are these Tanks doing so differant then that joe bloggs can`t also do in a grp for rvr?

the so called 'average' player seems to like camping bridges/docks/poc entrance/keeps. As for what they are doing differently, thats probably afking or hitting the sorcs pet instead of the sorc.

 

[RS|Phil]

Give tanks Empty Mind 2 IP2 and Purge 2 free at 40.

 

[Ronso]

Give tanks Empty Mind 2 IP2 and Purge 2 free at 40.

the funny thing is ..it could actually work !

 

[RS|Phil]

Should do really. Simple and it improves, nay, actualises their chance to reacha target before death..

 

[Garbannoch]

instead of giving away cookies just make charge useable by all tanks (heavy tanks, light tanks, hybrids; NOT: stealthers, support, mages) and change it in the following way:

Charge I: 25% base and style damage; 10 min RuT; 30 sec duration
Charge II: 50% base and style damage; 10 min RuT; 30 sec duration
Charge III: 75% base and style damage; 10 min RuT; 30 sec duration

and increase stoicism to 30% or 35%

 

[RS|Phil]

They could do so but I still reckon IP and purge should be free for a pure tank, even to just negate the fact that an assassin can take down a puretank. This should not be doable no matter what RR they are imo. That's a bit OT though.

The charge thing is dead on. As far as I know only two tanks get charge per realm? And not savages who are our primary melee dmg dudes. Very silly.

 

[Raven]

they shouldnt be free, cheaper yes, but not free.

 

[[NO]Subedai]

instead of giving away cookies just make charge useable by all tanks (heavy tanks, light tanks, hybrids; NOT: stealthers, support, mages) and change it in the following way:

Charge I: 25% base and style damage; 10 min RuT; 30 sec duration
Charge II: 50% base and style damage; 10 min RuT; 30 sec duration
Charge III: 75% base and style damage; 10 min RuT; 30 sec duration

and increase stoicism to 30% or 35%

no thankyou

 

[waok`whips]

Just give all tanks access to Charge!

Think of the joy ! Think of the love !

 

[Helme]

put armsmen down to chain/scale and give both the utility of warrior to armsmen and heros. I.E. spec allowing 50 1h/ 50 2hd / 50 shield / 28 parry, then give something like SB3 as their rr5 ability (for free).

Allow hero to keep his stag util,
Armsmen could then either get some more abs (or armor transforms into plate for XX amount of time)
Warrior something else ;p

Then allow quick not to decrease their dmg, so gogo big hits with full quick

Could also throw BAOD in there aswell ;o

Aye and then we add instant kill, I am glad you don't work at mythic.

 

[Yurka]

logic goes out the window when u've played an armsmen for a certain amount of time ;p

 

[Kagato]

logic goes out the window when u've played an armsmen for a certain amount of time ;p

That must be why I came back, logical solution would of been to /delete

On a more serious note i'd agree with increasing stoicism dramatically for heavy tanks (Armsmen, Heros and Warriors).

It wouldn't fix things, but every little helps, and personally i'd like to see avoidance of magic effecting CC again, but that wont ever happen.

 

[Serathule]

Where is the pally love?

 

[Danamyr]

It wouldn't fix things, but every little helps, and personally i'd like to see avoidance of magic effecting CC again, but that wont ever happen.

I agree. In fact, I agree with just about every post about Armsmen you make. The class (and heavy tanks in general) need a lot of love.

I hate CC when I play my Paladin, using Purge only to get remezzed or rooted seconds later. Actually on that subject, I think for tanks only buying Purge I might be a good idea. My experiance is that the initial CC is followed up a few seconds later by additional CC to catch those with the instant Purge. If you count to say, two and then use your 5 second Purge you should be free to wreak havoc. Oh, and you'd have an additional 10 RA points to spend on something else!

Opinions?

 

[Flimgoblin]

I agree. In fact, I agree with just about every post about Armsmen you make. The class (and heavy tanks in general) need a lot of love.

I hate CC when I play my Paladin, using Purge only to get remezzed or rooted seconds later. Actually on that subject, I think for tanks only buying Purge I might be a good idea. My experiance is that the initial CC is followed up a few seconds later by additional CC to catch those with the instant Purge. If you count to say, two and then use your 5 second Purge you should be free to wreak havoc. Oh, and you'd have an additional 10 RA points to spend on something else!

Opinions?

if they're dropping mezz over the top of mezz it won't stick if you've purged the first one, however I do seem to have my purge1 go off just after they drop the stun (i.e. mezz group, stun, nuke nuke) if I'm lucky.

Of course if they open up with stun nuke nuke purge 1 is useless

 

[Puppet]

The charge thing is dead on. As far as I know only two tanks get charge per realm? And not savages who are our primary melee dmg dudes. Very silly.

Only the main light-tank: Blademaster, Berserker, Mercenary. With Catacombs the Vampiir will get Charge too.