The Perfect Solution for Heavy Tanks and RvR

[Aliorm]

cap dex on 350 or sumat.

Then cap str on 350? Or maybe giv us the possibitity to get 450 Int?

 

[AngelHeal]

ever heard of "engage" ?/

 

[Dorin]

Throw Weapon gains you 3-4 secs to get in melee range, where you.. Stand, fumbling with your weapon for 11-12 secs?

Something to throw into the considerations here, capping dex/cast speed will make high dex races less viable.

same shit happened to high dex/qui races when evade got nerfed, so what? :>

 

[Dorin]

Then cap str on 350? Or maybe giv us the possibitity to get 450 Int?

let me put it this way, CAP CAST SPEED.

like melee is.

 

[Twinky]

Please tell me how a heavy tank can kill a bonedancer or a spirit master then please? or perhaps even a chanter with pet and 3 brittle guards up before being totally blown apart? Or even a mentalist with RR5 ability up?

I've been playing a heavy tank for 3 years now and like to think I know most of the tricks by now but these days with ToA theres a great many fights you simply cannot win no matter how clever you get about it.

And before people whine about my opinion being biased or re-rolling, im sure its the same for a hero or warrior trying to fight a Sorcerer with ml9 or a cabalist.

Aye.. Main reason i did retire.. and btw agree with fana.. decrease dmg if u get faster cast spd, like qui does to tanks..

 

[Konah]

heavy tanks could use a boost..certainly heroes and armsmen

heroes r fine, their only flaw is slash weak armour

 

[Pohjan Poika]

The best answer imo would be to just give casters the same damage reduction drawback that melee gets when you increase swingspeed on a portion of their damage. That way the 0.8 sec castspeed guys out there would not be able to wtfpwn you in 3-4 casts. Having a high castspeed would still be usefull to keep other casters interupted etc, and win cc and such.

Atm a caster that does say 400 damage/nuke does the same damage if he has 2 sec castspeed or 0.8 sec. If say half of that was affected by a speed decrease penalty it should be more like 280 per nuke with 0.8 speed. Mana cost should ofc also be divided to be less with increased speed. Same with healing and cc etc - this would force people to decide if speed or frontload/duration was more important.

strong support for this, should go for heals aswell.
or if this isnt done removed the down side of haste on melee dmg - then we will see what casters think about tanks hitting for 600ish every second.

 

[Vodkafairy]

strong support for this, should go for heals aswell.
or if this isnt done removed the down side of haste on melee dmg - then we will see what casters think about tanks hitting for 600ish every second.

fyi casters nuke for ~400 on cap resist, where tanks already hit for 400-800 damage per hit on casters easily. + so many insta interrupts, cc immunity (charge)

the people whining about mage damage are extremely biased, i bet most of you have never played with a mage against a proper group with a few banelords in it. sure, mage damage goes through the roof if you have shit equipment with hardly or no resists, but that goes for tank damage aswell.

the problem is that in big standoffs of casual players, range classes are the key. if a tank goes close, they get blown to pieces. well DUH. if you're a tank you shouldn't mess around a keep and get some kinda group together and roam or something, or use siege

 

[Kwidz]

fyi casters nuke for ~400 on cap resist, where tanks already hit for 400-800 damage per hit on casters easily. + so many insta interrupts, cc immunity (charge)

the people whining about mage damage are extremely biased, i bet most of you have never played with a mage against a proper group with a few banelords in it. sure, mage damage goes through the roof if you have shit equipment with hardly or no resists, but that goes for tank damage aswell.

the problem is that in big standoffs of casual players, range classes are the key. if a tank goes close, they get blown to pieces. well DUH. if you're a tank you shouldn't mess around a keep and get some kinda group together and roam or something, or use siege

cheeeeeeeeeers....

 

[Coldbeard]

funny how everyone that doesnt play a heavy tank regulary thinks the situation for heavy tanks are great and just think of us as big bunch of whiners. Heavy tanks needs their own role , something they can do that makes them worth inviting , dont bitch about bg.. BG is no heavy tank only and there is other classes that can bg and dont gimp grp, heck ye thanes are better for bg spot in grp now than warriors I'd say, ST, insta interrupts and castable nukes, but ofc about time thane got soem lub ;>

 

[Vodkafairy]

there is nothing wrong with heavy tanks, only issues is that they don't often have a space in opted groups. its lack of utility, but you don't make a heavy tank for that purpose.

i agree they should maybe get a boost to defensive abilities, but it has nothing to do with mages being overpowered

 

[lofff]

agreed that heavy tanks might need something to get back in par with light tanks / hybrids.. but that has nothing to be with casters. the clueless lets nerf this and that posts are ovbiously from ppl who hasnt played both sides of the coin: grass looks always greener on neighbour's garden

imo its light tanks which have gotten an huge boost over any other tank due to charge, banelord and passive PF.. while hybrids have been brought on par with heavy tanks but keep their natural higher utility.
give heavy tanks something to make em a more viable choice again, improve sb or some heavytank-only shield spec new styles with some wicked ability (such as a long duration snare or even buffshearing/demoralization thing) dunno.. just something unique to heavy tanks and useful while not stupidly overpowered as charge is *whine*

on a side note.. yes some 'magic abuse' abilities need toning, such as ml9convo, lifetaps and certain ranges (personally i would also remove moc completely) but heavytank - caster is definetively not the right comparison

 

[Kalba]

heavy tanks are getting ae slam, dont forget that

Soon there will be 2 warrior 2 supp SM grps everywhere just ae slamming everything that moves.

 

[lofff]

hope u kidding ;p or mb i should read patch notes more often ><

 

[Vodkafairy]

its not ae slam, but its an ae shield style that interrupts

at 41 spec iirc

edit-

http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/style.php?st_id=376

 

[Kagato]

fyi casters nuke for ~400 on cap resist, where tanks already hit for 400-800 damage per hit on casters easily. + so many insta interrupts, cc immunity (charge)

the people whining about mage damage are extremely biased, i bet most of you have never played with a mage against a proper group with a few banelords in it. sure, mage damage goes through the roof if you have shit equipment with hardly or no resists, but that goes for tank damage aswell.

the problem is that in big standoffs of casual players, range classes are the key. if a tank goes close, they get blown to pieces. well DUH. if you're a tank you shouldn't mess around a keep and get some kinda group together and roam or something, or use siege

FYI the heavy tanks being mentioned here, Armsmen, Heros and Warriors, do NOT get charge at all, we have no access to it.

Nor do we have any instant interupts or anything of the like.

And yes, I have do often play a cloth caster alt, I also know that if I get the drop on a tank at range with him theres little that tank will be able to do to survive, the only thing to worry about is assassins, even then only assuming I don't surround myself with mines and traps and a PN.

800 damage on a cloth user? Not with anytime style, which is all you'll be able to use on a caster, not any reactionaries, and even then you'd need a bloody good critical hit.

And we do not get the benefits of debuffed damage by ourselves.

Aside from the odd lowbie brehon I never see myself getting hit for 400 damage, its usually 690 + with cap resists and often resist buffs to boot.

Its not just the heavy tanks here expressing biased opinions.

 

[lofff]

maybe u could consider that most ppl posting is not thinking about 1vs1 combat.. on grp combat, healing turns the tides and a single caster dropping a heavy tank before the tank reaches him well.. talks more about the tanks grp than about the caster overpoweredness..

about the dmg.. theres something called positionals, and meleers dont face 50%+ resists, remove resist buffs and resist debuffs all together i bet u willl like that.

edit- and lets not turn this on a 1vs1 class imbalance discussion please..

 

[Brack]

haven't read most of the replys but 2 things

1, just from a roleplayer perspective hero1 blows that blast of energy with his shield?! >.<

2, ok so if a tank was 2 stand still him _and a friend_ are protected from all my ranged nukes pretty much? meaning i have 2 go close and pbaoe but then he can hit me and interrupt so my dmg output goes to 0 due to not being able 2 cast? All in all every fight i would have to moc to be able to dmg people and not only that i would have to be stood ontop of them pbaoeing, hoping they won't kill me before i kill them?

+ if he's guarding a caster with his shield i won't be able to hit him or his friend from range but the other caster could kill me who's solo without this tank shield!?

uke:

 

[Roadie]

But when Im on my ranger and a fire-wiz nukes me for 600+ everytime I just think 'fuck this'.

hmmmm id imagine most times you see a wiz in a 1:1 you think "happy days! free rp's"

heavy tanks are to counter light tanks and to dish out some dmg when there is nothing to guard from...i know bg isnt unique but heavy tanks do alot better dmg than the other classes who get it.

There is absolutely hundreds of ways to nullify melee damage now, ranging from alblative procs, to pbt to simply keeping out of melee range, yes you ALL know how easy it is to kite just out of being hit range, yet theres only a few ways to nullify magic damage.

when your running from a tank you cant cast, just fyi. Also there are ways to slow magic dmg, Resist buffs, acuity shear, dex/quick debuff, banelord de-haste. Not to mention the entire interupt system

 

[el burro]

There must be something wrong when about 70% of players at frontiers are casters if dont count stealthers.

 

[Xajorkith]

when your running from a tank you cant cast, just fyi. Also there are ways to slow magic dmg, Resist buffs, acuity shear, dex/quick debuff, banelord de-haste. Not to mention the entire interupt system

Interupts? What interupts? Nearly every motherfecker caster I come across has MoC 3...

Running from a tank? Er how on earth did the tank get to you, post screenie and prove it happened?

 

[Kagato]

maybe u could consider that most ppl posting is not thinking about 1vs1 combat.. on grp combat, healing turns the tides and a single caster dropping a heavy tank before the tank reaches him well.. talks more about the tanks grp than about the caster overpoweredness..

about the dmg.. theres something called positionals, and meleers dont face 50%+ resists, remove resist buffs and resist debuffs all together i bet u willl like that.

edit- and lets not turn this on a 1vs1 class imbalance discussion please..

I havent even gotten into the 1 vs 1 situration yet, that just makes things worse.

Positionals? any caster that stands still and waits for you to get to the side or rear for a positional deserves today, and most positional styles add very little extra damage, its only the reactionaries that tend to really hit hard, at least the ones im familier with.

As for dropping the heavy tank before reaching them? Hello assist nuking? Its not just tanks that can use assist.

 

[Kagato]

hmmmm id imagine most times you see a wiz in a 1:1 you think "happy days! free rp's"

heavy tanks are to counter light tanks and to dish out some dmg when there is nothing to guard from...i know bg isnt unique but heavy tanks do alot better dmg than the other classes who get it.




when your running from a tank you cant cast, just fyi. Also there are ways to slow magic dmg, Resist buffs, acuity shear, dex/quick debuff, banelord de-haste. Not to mention the entire interupt system

The ones I listed effect melee only, tanks can be str/con/dex/quick sheared just as much as a caster can be acuity sheared. That one works both ways.
Melee damage also suffers from AF buffs and absorb buffs in some cases in a a not dissimiler fashion to resists.

However only tanks suffer from blade turn, pulsing blade turn and triple brittle guards, which is enough time for most casters to kill a tank before they even need to start running.

How about a spell turn for tanks ? I bet you'd love that.

 

[Merrilow]

I'd say it depends on your support. Anyone will get wtfpwnd by anyone without a decent support backing them up.

 

[Thrice ThidAlt]

Again, any slowing of cast spd will tilt the board in favour of instas, especially in regards to CC.

heavy tanks are to counter light tanks and to dish out some dmg when there is nothing to guard from...

Fix the melee triad then. S/S > parry, dw > evade, 2h > shield.

I know it makes even less sense than the current system if you look at it realistically, but it would add a ton of defense for heavy tanks against light tanks..

Casters > heavy tanks
heavy tanks > light tanks
light tanks > casters

Yes?

Only problem I see is concerning stealthers. Stealther vs visible melee, and especially scout vs assassin.

 

[Bracken]

its not ae slam, but its an ae shield style that interrupts

at 41 spec iirc

edit-

http://www.camelotherald.com/styles/style.php?st_id=376

Aye...though small radius means it'll only be useful in very specific situations.

 

[Vodkafairy]

agh bracken, less slamming next time we fight

im only a brehon!

 

[censi]

I think they should just nerf these near one second cast speeds and it would solve a lot of the problem.

but its a good sugestion imo.

They have made mages too supreme once again.

 

[Wela]

Givf Charge and Banespike Kthxbye! :>

 

[waok`whips]

Aye, everyone should get charge imo!