The Muamba tweets

[Mabs]

Thats just asymmetric warfare - a massacre is where you round up all the civilians and ahnillate them - like in Yugoslavia.

lol , no its not

 

[Mabs]

I am a little staggered at the naivety of this - you think the rest of the world can sort this out when the two sides havent managed it in 60+ years because?

And despite dozens of recent examples you still think the international community will do anything more than mutter a bit?

Israel has, and has always had, US support. they would of lost the Yom Kippur war without them

 

[rynnor]

Israel has, and has always had, US support. they would of lost the Yom Kippur war without them

No US president will ever go beyond a mild reproach to Israel because of the powerfull Jewish lobby - both sides are entrenched and I see little changing in my lifetime sadly.

 

[mr.Blacky]

I am a little staggered at the naivety of this - you think the rest of the world can sort this out when the two sides havent managed it in 60+ years because?

And despite dozens of recent examples you still think the international community will do anything more than mutter a bit?

But we can hope and should put pressure on all sides to try to. Otherwise what worth is any morality we claim? Without hope what is live really worth?

 

[rynnor]

But we can hope and should put pressure on all sides to try to. Otherwise what worth is any morality we claim? Without hope what is live really worth?

It takes 2 sides to make a peace though and currently neither side seems keen. Without their war against Israel Hamas has no purpose/power and the Israelis have the extra land they grabbed which they need with an expanding population.

 

[Mabs]

No US president will ever go beyond a mild reproach to Israel because of the powerfull Jewish lobby - both sides are entrenched and I see little changing in my lifetime sadly.

option 1: US stops backing israel, israel gets wiped out.. no good
option 2: US goes on supporting israel, israel goes on pushing its luck cos it knows if push comes to shove the US will shore them .. also no good

ergo, surely its up to the palestinians to man up and sort it out ?

 

[Raven]

Well, until the supporters of Palestine get nukes that is.

 

[Mabs]

Well, until the supporters of Palestine get nukes that is.

yea well this is the problem with MAD doctrine, it assumes the people in control arent completely off their fucking rocker :\

 

[rynnor]

Well, until the supporters of Palestine get nukes that is.

Thats the day Iran gets nuked by Israel tbh - you can be damn sure the Israelis have plenty of spies monitoring their nuclear program.

 

[Zenith]

I am a little staggered at the naivety of this - you think the rest of the world can sort this out when the two sides havent managed it in 60+ years because?

And despite dozens of recent examples you still think the international community will do anything more than mutter a bit?

Call it naivety, for me it's the only right way to go. Do you not agree it is the best outcome?

I do know the international community probably will mutter, rather than you, this is what I find absolutely staggering. I hope, for once, the outcome of this situation will be different.

 

[Zenith]

Sadly you come accross like a typical Hamas mouthbreather - once all is emotion objectivity is lost - clearly you have nothing to discuss having chosen a side and blinded yourself to all that contradicts it.

A Hamas mouthbreather? Dude, I've been to Jerusalem, I have family that is Jewish. Step away from your bubble, man.

What I see is Palestinians dying and being injured, in the hundreds (105 dead right now, 750 injured being reported). As I've said I do NOT take sides, even though I see the Jewish offensive as being a massacre. What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[rynnor]

A Hamas mouthbreather? Dude, I've been to Jerusalem, I have family that is Jewish. Step away from your bubble, man.

What I see is Palestinians dying and being injured, in the hundreds (105 dead right now, 750 injured being reported). As I've said I do NOT take sides, even though I see the Jewish offensive as being a massacre. What the fuck are you talking about?

The comparison was made because they can never stop themselves responding emotionally rather than debating logically and you have done the same thing.

One thing is for certain - emotional reactions do not further the chances of peace - you just get sucked into tit for tat.

 

[Zenith]

Wow, sorry if I came of as emotional, we're talking about bombs and hundred of people getting blown up.

I do base my argument on logical points. The Gaza strip has no defensive mechanism to talk of, and are getting bombarded by the massively overpowering air and naval power of the Israeli

The Israeli government and military officials have gone out to say that they will use the same tactics used in the 2006(?) offensive on the Lebanon border: that is, overpowering force, and attacking civilian infrastructure. They will not "bother to look for Qassam missile launches" in their attack.

120 people now reported dead, 800 reported injured. The Israeli have said they will up their offensive efforts, not ruling out a ground force entering Gaza City.

Same message, stripped out of emotion. Is it dehumanized enough for you Rynnor?

 

[rynnor]

Is it dehumanized enough for you Rynnor?

Better

I wish things were different - I just think that the idea that world opinion can have any effect on the situation to be unlikely - Israel just digs in when its un-popular.

I think there's actually a lot less appetite for a ground war this time than the last one so there's still hope that the situation can be calmed down but that requires the cessation (or at least extreme diminishing) of rocket attacks on Israel.

 

[Zenith]

If world opinion has an effect or not, there SHOULD be an opinion.

Yep, you're right, the Israeli population is against a ground force invasion, and hopefully the Israeli government will listen to them. A ground invasion be the current disaster times 10x.

I dont see how you can argue the way you do Rynnor. There is 5 reported Israeli deaths and a handful injured. There is 120 Palestinian deaths and 800 injured. The Israeli is blockading a population of 2m Palestinians in Gaza, and blocks all international aid. The Israeli have one of the most sophisticated military in the world, which they are using freely to destroy civilian infrastructure. And a side point, the increased amount of rockets came after the 14th of November bombing that killed the Hamas military leader Ahmed al-Jabari.

And still, you say the only way this is going to end in peace is if the PALESTINIANS stop shooting?

Now, I dont know if this realistically correct or not, but it's absolutely bloody insane.

 

[Scouse]

that requires the cessation (or at least extreme diminishing) of rocket attacks on Israel.

Nob off rynnor. Stop trying to put the blame at the foot of the palestinians. Israel is stoking the fire. They want the land, they want the arabs gone, they've boxed them in, they're bombing them and they're starving them whilst stealing what land they have left.

 

[rynnor]

And still, you say the only way this is going to end in peace is if the PALESTINIANS stop shooting?

Now, I dont know if this realistically correct or not, but it's absolutely bloody insane.

Theres not much sanity in war - the reality is that hardliners within Israel (of which there are many) will not allow the IDF to stop unless the rocket attacks largely cease or they will argue the main objective has not been achieved yet.

 

[rynnor]

Nob off rynnor. Stop trying to put the blame at the foot of the palestinians.

I'm not assigning blame I'm telling you what is needed to avert a ground war.

 

[Scouse]

I'm not assigning blame I'm telling you what is needed to avert a ground war.

No. What is needed to avert a ground war is the west threatening to pull support for Israeli aggression.

120 dead, 800 wounded. Vs. 5.

If Israel wants the rocket attacks to stop they should take down the wall, stop stealing land, stop torturing and murdering arabs and let people have some fucking food and medical supplies - for a start.

 

[Scouse]

Nope rynnor. That's a realistic assessment of what's needed. I'm not optimistic about it, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't state what is clearly needed.

 

[Job]

Before we get on our high horses an israeli minister pointed out the deaths are miniscule compared to the wholesale massacre the west has rained down on thecivilian populations of iraq and afghanistan..he is completely correct.

 

[Scouse]

Before we get on our high horses an israeli minister pointed out the deaths are miniscule compared to the wholesale massacre the west has rained down on thecivilian populations of iraq and afghanistan..he is completely correct.

Hitler killed loads of jews. Should Israel now be allowed to kill loads of arabs because of that?

Also - I remember this:

]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OSCO_qgKN0&feature=player_detailpage#t=195s[/media]


Edit: Israel, not Hitler

 

[Zenith]

Before we get on our high horses an israeli minister pointed out the deaths are miniscule compared to the wholesale massacre the west has rained down on thecivilian populations of iraq and afghanistan..he is completely correct.

This is true, and should be pointed out.

However, this does not condemn nor put the actions being done the last few days in another light.

 

[Job]

No...hes just pointing out the 10.000 ft pile of hypocrytical shit it is for us to moan at israel for collateral damage when we invaded these countries and they are only retaliating against a very real threat

 

[Zenith]

As have already been mentioned, where is the West condemning the Israeli action? Nothing else but this will make them stop, in my opinion.

Oh wait, the US already wrongfully entered Afghanistan and Irak. Facepalm...

 

[Scouse]

No...hes just pointing out the 10.000 ft pile of hypocrytical shit it is for us to moan at israel for collateral damage when we invaded these countries and they are only retaliating against a very real threat

It's not a "very real" threat. It's piddling nonsense that they stoke up to "justify" their war on the palestinians.

And it matters not if it's "hypocritical" of the west - it doesn't make him right.

What point are you trying to make, exactly, Job?

 

[Zenith]

Job: Who's hypocrytical? Ive been against both the Afghani and the Irak wars. And even if I wasnt (but I was), it DOESNT change what's happening right now, which is the main point.

And wait, Israel is retaliating against what threat?

Basicly, you are saying: Fuck man, the US have killed loads of civilian Arabs, which makes it okay for us too! Woohoo, TO THE GUNS!

 

[rynnor]

And wait, Israel is retaliating against what threat?

Iranian made missile attacks on its territory.

 

[Zenith]

And we are back to the whole point of disappropriate response. Well done sire, you have just brought this back a few pages!

Yes, there is missiles being shot at the Israeli border. Why was they shot this time? The 14th bombing that killed Ahmed al-Jabiri. How many did these missiles kill? 5. Is it illegal? Yes. Do I condemn it? No. Does it need to be stopped? Yes.

Just yesterday the Israeli bombed, by airforce, 80 locations in Gaza City, killing 60 people. And this is not even mentioning the human crisis they have created by the blockade of aid and the wall.

Whos the threat again?

 

[rynnor]

I dont really see the point of the death scores match - would your opinion be different if it was 100 dead on each side? The two sides have different capabilities so this is extremely unlikely.

If a gunmen bursts into your house - starts shooting people out your window and you are hit by a stray police bullet who do you blame?