The Muamba tweets

[Scouse]

Back on topic. I'm really uncomfortable with the whole concept of arresting someone just for being a prick. He's only been arrested because it was a tirade in relation to the Muamba story; which hardly shows justice is blind does it?.

We've established elsewhere that we don't do justice and what we've got is definitely not blind.

You're entirely right about arresting pricks for what they say. Nobody should be arrested for saying what they think, ever. To do that is to effectively have thought-crime.

UncleSick misses that point entirely. You should start arresting people when they start taking actions that would harm others, rather than just speaking words.

 

[soze]

We've established elsewhere that we don't do justice and what we've got is definitely not blind.

You're entirely right about arresting pricks for what they say. Nobody should be arrested for saying what they think, ever. To do that is to effectively have thought-crime.

UncleSick misses that point entirely. You should start arresting people when they start taking actions that would harm others, rather than just speaking words.

The families of people that have committed suicide because of bullying may disagree, in a polite society you can't just say whatever you think.

However freedom of speech should let you say what in private. If you have a blog or a radio show ect then say what you want if people do not agree they can stop looking and or listening. But why should people avoid places like Twitter because idiots what to spread hate.

 

[Scouse]

Someone will always disagree with what you're saying. Someone will always get offended.

If you start dictating what, when or where people can say things, even the most dickish things ever, then we all suffer.

This guy was a dick. The person who would have a go at a family who've just lost a child is a dick.

However, the world is full of dicks, who have just as much a right to exist freely on this planet as the rest of us. The second we take that right to exist freely, in public, from anyone, we damage all of us.

We do not have freedom of thought in the United Kingdom. "Hate crime" my ass.

 

[soze]

I do not see it as policing thought They are simply Policing you expressing your thoughts in a public place which imo is fair enough.

 

[DaGaffer]

I do not see it as policing thought They are simply Policing you expressing your thoughts in a public place which imo is fair enough.

But where's the line and who decides? This might be regarded as a clear-cut "hate crime" (although I still think its just fuckwittery), but what about someone who tweets "anyone who believes in God is a stupid prick"? I call that freedom of speech, a lot of people would call it a hate crime. Now in my head I know where my "line" is (anything people can have a choice about is fair game for criticism, anything you can't, like the colour of your skin for example, isn't), but what happens when you start to censor people is that you get a legal function creep as everything becomes taboo. Its like all the recent kerfuffle about "militant secularists"; trying to gag people is bad; frankly its better to have people's dodgy opinions out in plain sight where they can be debated, ridiculed and shot down in flames.

 

[Job]

It's a very fine line for all to play and I don't pretend to have the answers, if some guy tweets ..'I hate fuckin ni@@ers' all day, it's got to be worth having a word with him at least, and to be honest 99% of the time the good old british bobby gets it right, it's just that common sense (whatever that is) goes out the window when everyone's watching, the poor wanker now has his picture posted all over the press, that's just out of order, who's to say he doesn't have mental health problems, but all he got was 16th century trial by the mob.

 

[Mabs]

It's a very fine line for all to play and I don't pretend to have the answers, if some guy tweets ..'I hate fuckin ni@@ers' all day, it's got to be worth having a word with him at least, and to be honest 99% of the time the good old british bobby gets it right, it's just that common sense (whatever that is) goes out the window when everyone's watching, the poor wanker now has his picture posted all over the press, that's just out of order, who's to say he doesn't have mental health problems, but all he got was 16th century trial by the mob.

sorry, but - who the fuck cares ?
hes a twat.. he got what he deserved

im sick to my back teeth of people going "LOL RACISM ISNT SERIOUS"

and if people had more respect for the establishment it might not have come to this. but 40 years ago, you got told off by a copper, you sat down and shut up. now they bait them cos they know where the lines are in law. fine. you want to fuck around , then we wont give you a warning, or tell you parents, we will just throw the book at you.
good..fucking..riddance

 

[georgie]

the poor wanker now has his picture posted all over the press, that's just out of order, who's to say he doesn't have mental health problems, but all he got was 16th century trial by the mob.

I've got to ask... Do you actually read what you type?

 

[Raven]

But he posted it in a public domain. One would think he wanted everyone to know his views? Are you saying he was trying to be anonymous and therefore immune to the law? Would he then not do it from an anonymous twitter account if he wanted it to be a secret? Not one with both his name and his picture on...linking to several well read twitter feeds.

He is a racist moron
He posted his twisted bullshit in a public place for the world to see.
You seem surprised he is getting prosecuted?

It's not like it was a private text message to a mate or a personal thought.

 

[caLLous]

He also "hates black music".

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Don't forget he's only a 'racist', not a racist.

 

[Scouse]

I do not see it as policing thought They are simply Policing you expressing your thoughts in a public place which imo is the same thing with the same end result.

Fixed

He is a racist moron
He posted his twisted bullshit in a public place for the world to see.
You seem surprised he is getting prosecuted?

Yes, he's a racist moron.

Yes, he posted his idiotic views in public.

However, he shouldn't be prosecuted for being a cunt.

(But I'm not surprised with the state of our, er, state)...

 

[soze]

But where's the line and who decides? This might be regarded as a clear-cut "hate crime" (although I still think its just fuckwittery), but what about someone who tweets "anyone who believes in God is a stupid prick"? I call that freedom of speech, a lot of people would call it a hate crime. Now in my head I know where my "line" is (anything people can have a choice about is fair game for criticism, anything you can't, like the colour of your skin for example, isn't), but what happens when you start to censor people is that you get a legal function creep as everything becomes taboo. Its like all the recent kerfuffle about "militant secularists"; trying to gag people is bad; frankly its better to have people's dodgy opinions out in plain sight where they can be debated, ridiculed and shot down in flames.

I do not know how to answer this but on the whole I agree. I am C of E and have been my whole life if someone slags off God I do not care. Everyone has their own right to believe what they want. I also do agree that it goes to far this case is clear in my head what he said was not funny banter it was hateful. But some of the things that get called Racism and Homophobia are ridiculous.

Fixed

It is not the same. Thinking something does not affect anyone else. Walking up to a large crowd and saying it can affect other people hence not the same.

 

[Scouse]

It is not the same. Thinking something does not affect anyone else. Walking up to a large crowd and saying it can affect other people hence not the same.

So. If you have unpopular views you should live in silence?

What about people who spoke out about the church when it had a stranglehold control over society - and killed people for blasphemy? Lots of people hated them and their speech affected other people...


The only way to deal with twats is to ridicule them, whilst being responsible for your own actions.

 

[soze]

So. If you have unpopular views you should live in silence?

What about people who spoke out about the church when it had a stranglehold control over society - and killed people for blasphemy? Lots of people hated them and their speech affected other people...


The only way to deal with twats is to ridicule them, whilst being responsible for your own actions.

Modern Society has different standards by which people should be held accountable. Just because someone wants to be a cunt it does not mean we should all be forced to live with them.

But I sense this is going nowhere so let him keep talking like that and get stabbed when he runs his mouth to the wrong person then he will be dead and someone will be in Jail but at least he could speak his mind.

 

[Rubber Bullets]

hats off to the medics and the doc who worked his heart for two hours, you know they'd have pulled the plug on an ordinary joe after twenty minutes.

Sorry to come in a bit late, but this is just bollocks. Muamba was incredibly lucky that this happened to him where it did; there are few places, outside a hospital, that have such instant access to the treatment that he got, and he was also fortunate to be close enough to such a specialist centre as the London Chest Hospital. There is no set time that medics will continue to work on a person in cardiac arrest, it is extremely variable, and will depend on a number of factors. The doctors doing this will have been some of the most experienced in the country, and constant monitoring would have been telling them what electrical activity was happening in the heart, and they would have known whether there was a chance that they could get it beating again, they would also have been able to tell what the likely blood flow had been to the brain and other major organs, and whether there was a chance of damage there too.

It is also unlikely that they were standing over him with a defibrillator for 2 hours shouting 'clear' and shocking him every 10 seconds. There are ways of keeping a heart beating using either external or internal temporary pacing machines that ensure that the blood keeps getting where it needs to be, whilst the cause of the arrhythmia can be treated.

All in all the suggestion that these doctors only kept going for as long as they did because the press were outside is as insulting to them as anything else in this thread. In my opinion anyone who suffers the same sort of heart attack, and is lucky enough to have exactly the same access to treatment and expertise that Fabrice Muamba had, would get exactly the same level of treatment, and for the same length of time (longer even if they still felt there was a chance of recovery); and strange though it may seem, I'd even go as far as to say that this would include you Job.

RB

 

[Scouse]

Modern Society has different standards by which people should be held accountable. Just because someone wants to be a cunt it does not mean we should all be forced to live with them.

But I sense this is going nowhere so let him keep talking like that and get stabbed when he runs his mouth to the wrong person then he will be dead and someone will be in Jail but at least he could speak his mind.

Oh, so we need a lack of freedom of speech for our own protection?

If he's a cunt that gets stabbed and the murder goes to prison it's a win-win isn't it?

 

[throdgrain]

I've not read the whole thread, doubt I will either, but I have a lot of time for Job's initial post.

 

[gohan]

These threads do always tend to have the same political split, they are pretty pointless to post and about 50% are normal people who realise this is a pointless waste of time and resources and use logic, and 30% are jumped up holier than thou baying for the blood of anyone who shares anykind of opinion that may offend someone to prove to the world how liberal and accepting of all walks of life they are, the other 20% don't give two shits..........


gets boring

 

[Job]

He got two hours CPR because he was young, fit and famous.
If you are middle aged, overweight and a nobody, they'll give up MUCH sooner than that, tell the family sorry, did all they could etc..one good thing from this is people will demand they keep trying.
Only the very next day a Kilmarnock players 49 year old dad had a heart attack by the pitch, he was pronounced dead in the ambulance...no two hour cpr on a dead heart for him.

 

[caLLous]

Oh yeah that's right, all cardiac arrests are EXACTLY THE SAME.

 

[gohan]

fuck me you are deluded

 

[Punishment]

I got quoted 3 times for making an unpopular post, when shall i expect the cops to show up ?

 

[Calaen]

He got two hours CPR because he was young, fit and famous.
If you are middle aged, overweight and a nobody, they'll give up MUCH sooner than that, tell the family sorry, did all they could etc..one good thing from this is people will demand they keep trying.
Only the very next day a Kilmarnock players 49 year old dad had a heart attack by the pitch, he was pronounced dead in the ambulance...no two hour cpr on a dead heart for him.

I suggest you watch a real program on heart conditions, watching House does not cover the real facts.

Pointless carrying out cpr or using the defibrillator if the heart has no signal. It's clear that in muambas case that despite being in a bad way his heart was still putting out signals. The defibrillator is used to actually stop the heart, and hope it reboots itself into the correct pattern. I'm guessing however many attempts it took was all down to the fact that his heart was continuing to send out signals.

 

[fettoken]

Wow, really. Astounding this is getting so much attention. They should try browsing FH some instead. 1/10 of the population would instantly get arrested.

 

[Turamber]

What about people who spoke out about the church when it had a stranglehold control over society - and killed people for blasphemy? Lots of people hated them and their speech affected other people...

Does this apply to people who aggressively attack others for not believing exactly as they do?

It strikes me that many of the rude posts in this thread are just a variant of what the chap got arrested for. It wouldn't be a bad thing if people were more accountable for their aggressive posturing and insensitive statements on the Internet. You bunch of twats.

 

[Turamber]

I got quoted 3 times for making an unpopular post, when shall i expect the cops to show up ?

They're having a nice bowl of corn each, you'll have to wait.

 

[Rubber Bullets]

He got two hours CPR because he was young, fit and famous.
If you are middle aged, overweight and a nobody, they'll give up MUCH sooner than that, tell the family sorry, did all they could etc..one good thing from this is people will demand they keep trying.
Only the very next day a Kilmarnock players 49 year old dad had a heart attack by the pitch, he was pronounced dead in the ambulance...no two hour cpr on a dead heart for him.

I'm torn between thinking that you are simply trolling, or that you are really as stupid as you sound. I'm still undecided so here goes again.

There are 2 basic reasons for a heart attack. The first is that the arteries that supply blood to the heart muscle itself get blocked, or at least have the flow severely slowed. The result is that the part of the heart they supply dies through lack of oxygen and will never recover. if caught early enough, and the blockage is not too severe, these symptoms can be treated. 'Clot Busting' drugs or coronary artery angioplasty or stents can have amazing results, but they do have to be done very quickly.

The second form of heart attack is from an arrhythmia, basically the electrical signals to, and through, the heart go haywire. In order to pump the blood effectively all four chambers have to contract in a specific sequence, controlled by nerve signals from the brain, and passing through the heart muscle. There are many ways that these signals can go wrong, and not all of them are as immediately devastating as what happened to Muamba, but at the extreme the heart stops beating in a strict order and the muscle just flutters (atrial fibrillation) and no blood moves. Again there re treatments, but they will be dependant on the reason for the electrical problems. In the mean time, as long as blood still gets oxygenated (it has to flow through the lungs, which need to have a supply of oxygen passing into them) and that blood still gets to the brain and other vital organs then the doctors have the time they need.

I have no idea how they did it in this case, but in our cardiac unit at work they have one of these:



and they have had a patient on it for over 1 hour 20 mins whilst they worked on him (interestingly the patient was not famous, was not young, and had no press interest, they just did it to save his life, amazing huh?).

With reference to the tragic case of Jack Kelly, he was 59, and was not declared dead in the ambulance (this never happens, as amulances do not carry doctors, and paramedics can't declare anyone dead), and would have had a heart attack of the first kind above. I'm sure that Glasgow Victoria Infirmary have access to the treatments above, so I guess the damage to the heart must have been too severe to recover, they did try for an hour or so though.

I have no idea why I typed all this anyway, as you answered your own points in your post. Yes Muamba had treatment that was appropriate for his age, and general fitness (fame was nothing to do with it) and there isn't any point in doing 2 hours CPR on a 'dead heart' as you put it.

RB

 

[Punishment]

They're having a nice bowl of corn each, you'll have to wait.

Considering what you posted above that i find it funny

 

[Scouse]

Does this apply to people who aggressively attack others for not believing exactly as they do?

I've only ever heard of members of churches who act in that way Turamber. Violence against unbelievers is a function, first and formost, of believers.

Unless you mean argue against - in which case it's fine. It's not as if I can physically harm you on the internet