The goal has been reached.

[hotrat]

only rr9+ clerics can afford AP, a lot of other RA's to get before it:
MCL2, RP, BoF, Purge, acuity3, MoC, mota2 etc

Healers get PR instead of BoF, I think I would prefer chain armor and a instant 100% rez than BoF. BoF rarely saves me as a sorc, although on clerics it definately makes them hard

However baseline ST mezz is very useful, even a det 5 tank takes ~10 secs to shake that off, far more useful than a baseline stun. Amnesia as well very useful vs hib pbae, and of course demezz, very very useful, you need to make sure all healers are mezzed or interupted otherwise they will just demezz each other.

Asd as well really tips the balance, luckily that gets fixed.

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by parzi
yeah its so unfair clerics never can heal and savages wtf1shot everything and sos and bof are shitte and never ready and skalds can use 2h and my mincer cant and... oh wait... nvm
thought i'd whine a bit since it seems like thats needed to be a real alb xDDD

Parz
Sad thing is 50% of that is correct, clerics not healing, sos and bof never being ready, savages killing things fast (not in 1 hit but as good as).
Skald well they suck compared to minstrel, w00tah alb has 1 good group class compared to mid

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by hotrat
only rr9+ clerics can afford AP, a lot of other RA's to get before it:
MCL2, RP, BoF, Purge, acuity3, MoC, mota2 etc

Healers get PR instead of BoF, I think I would prefer chain armor and a instant 100% rez than BoF. BoF rarely saves me as a sorc, although on clerics it definately makes them hard

However baseline ST mezz is very useful, even a det 5 tank takes ~10 secs to shake that off, far more useful than a baseline stun. Amnesia as well very useful vs hib pbae, and of course demezz, very very useful, you need to make sure all healers are mezzed or interupted otherwise they will just demezz each other.

Asd as well really tips the balance, luckily that gets fixed.

now...try doing all that while healing before the grey con lvl 5 Lynx cub comes an interupts u

btw, alb has all that except the ae stun..just on different classes. personally i see that as more of an advantage, Sorc dies u only lose your cc...healer dies you lose cc, healing, amnesia, mana regen an other buffs etc

 

[old.mattshanes]

Originally posted by hotrat
Parz
Sad thing is 50% of that is correct, clerics not healing, sos and bof never being ready, savages killing things fast (not in 1 hit but as good as).
Skald well they suck compared to minstrel, w00tah alb has 1 good group class compared to mid

Paladin compared to thane???

That's another one

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by hotrat
Parz
Sad thing is 50% of that is correct, clerics not healing, sos and bof never being ready, savages killing things fast (not in 1 hit but as good as).
Skald well they suck compared to minstrel, w00tah alb has 1 good group class compared to mid

never ready if you waste the sos/bof ras when running to apk, or in a zerg or so

 

[Aussie-]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos

btw, alb has all that except the ae stun..just on different classes. personally i see that as more of an advantage, Sorc dies u only lose your cc...healer dies you still have 2x asd ,2x cc, 2x healing, 2x amnesia, mana regen an other buffs etc

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by hotrat
BoF rarely saves me as a sorc,

narrowminded?


bof is a great RA if played well

you ever thought about the fact that you might suck? a porche and crap driver wont win a race just because the car is good

 

[Aussie-]

yes so great zerks only did 400 prepatch in vendo and savages only hit for 400 when quadhitting... combine that with some assist etc.


but its still a UBER RA !!!! .... vs hib tanks.

 

[viddi]

Congrats and well done

And Stubbe I still have nigthmares about the figth near the mill where you nearly meled my scout from full health to death

/em thanks the alb zerg for saving my arse

 

[sorusi]

you are not suppose to melee the savages... run forest run, and if you cant run have a 50shield,mob4 paladin to guard

 

[skile]

Originally posted by sorusi
narrowminded?


bof is a great RA if played well

you ever thought about the fact that you might suck? a porche and crap driver wont win a race just because the car is good

Won't a sorc get hit eventually, no matter who is driving. What Hotrats points at is, when he does get hit by the mid-tank train, BoF is just no enough for cloth.

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by Aussie-
yes so great zerks only did 400 prepatch in vendo and savages only hit for 400 when quadhitting... combine that with some assist etc.


but its still a UBER RA !!!! .... vs hib tanks.

do you travel back in time alot to fight prepatch zerkers or why do you have to mention these now?

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by skile
Won't a sorc get hit eventually, no matter who is driving. What Hotrats points at is, when he does get hit by the mid-tank train, BoF is just no enough for cloth.

yes, but it sure helps rest of grp, that isnt an issue for bof sucking when it works on rest of grp exept friar.... thats a issue sorc has to get fixed for adding intercepting pets or something... but bof ist still a VERY powerfull RA...

and after mezzing/debuffing, sorc can die, doesnt really matter that much ressed sorc can still do his job

its basicly like saying wildpower sucks because sorcs cant nuke hard anyway really narrowminded way of thinking

/also once mythic wake up and nerf savages bof will be powerfull on casters too

 

[skile]

The whine on zergs from NP is just a aggressive begging to make things easier from them. Zerg them to death, it seems to be the only way to kill them, rather zerg them than die 10 times in a row 1 group vs 1 group. Might be fun for Nolby, but not for the loosing part.

Some might say, by zerging u won't reach the NP-standart (doesn't matter if it's by them playing a lot, or overpowered classes/realm). But, there are a lot of other guilds to train yourself with, and you won't loose all the time. When these groups get beaten a lot easier, then it's time to take on NP.

Or? No point in serving NP rp's just cause they want to, is it.

 

[old.mattshanes]

Originally posted by skile
The whine on zergs from NP is just a aggressive begging to make things easier from them. Zerg them to death, it seems to be the only way to kill them, rather zerg them than die 10 times in a row 1 group vs 1 group. Might be fun for Nolby, but not for the loosing part.

Some might say, by zerging u won't reach the NP-standart (doesn't matter if it's by them playing a lot, or overpowered classes/realm). But, there are a lot of other guilds to train yourself with, and you won't loose all the time. When these groups get beaten a lot easier, then it's time to take on NP.

Or? No point in serving NP rp's just cause they want to, is it.

The only thing with that you will not learn how to kill them as a fg.

Yes it's annoying.

No full group is un-killable, NP are great players but they can be killed and they probably even admit it themselves.

 

[sorusi]

with the right players and grp setup both hibb and alb can make groups that can kill a midd grp like ours

 

[hotrat]

healer dies you lose cc, healing, amnesia, mana regen an other buffs etc

LOL just like Aussie said thats 1 healer dead leaving 2 others left, possibly with PR, even if they dont you still got plenty of CC, not to mention your SHAMAN with 2 completely different types of cc available.

never ready if you waste the sos/bof ras when running to apk, or in a zerg or so

Actually 90% of the time we use SoS we get adds, vs noob mids it can allow you to farm 2 or 3fg, but if we are fighting NP or so, use SoS right at the start then more mids add we got no chance.

narrowminded?


bof is a great RA if played well

you ever thought about the fact that you might suck? a porche and crap driver wont win a race just because the car is good

ROFL, if anything pac healer is the porsche, sorc is more like a skoda like I said already sorc has QC to land their best mezz at almost anytime, but that best mezz has been heavily nerfed cus of det 5 and now its the secondary abilities that are more important, sorc can str/con debuff and lifetap for 150 dmg (at heavy power cost) pac healer can spread heal for 500 hits per person! and has 2 insta heals, and has far more surviveability, so obvious which is better.

you think BoF and a 50 shield paladin (who wont be able to guard anyway cus he has to provide end for the other tanks else you won't kill anything!) will save a sorc against 3 savages your very wrong.

Savage usually does 300 main hand, 150 per offhand with 1.5 second delay!!, bof pretty much halves the dmg, so around 200 every 1.5 second from each savage (this is double hits only), thats 600 dmg every 1.5 seconds from 3 savages with maybe 50% being blocked if you have a paladin guarding which you, which you won't at such an early stage in the fight.

BoF will not save a sorc from savages! what are they gonna do anyway, say they are kept alive for 10 seconds, there QC is down, clerics insta's are all used keeping you alive and they have maybe 50% power left each, you still gotta wait 20 secs for QC again. Clerics could waste their entire power bars for the 30 secs bof is on and still the sorc will have the savage on them, maybe qc ae root for 2 secs? or ST root just 1 of them for 6 secs? sorc is just useless vs det 5 tanks.

Oh and in case you forgot how hard a savage hits a sorc...
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ripple/Howards/3Quads.JPG

Check out the overpowered minstrel ablative someone mentioned in that screenshot, really kept me alive

look even Stubbe admits mids are too strong until at least asd and savages are fixed

Originally posted by Forau
Healers are, and have more or less always been, the best overall class in daoc, remove ASD and Mid groups will loose alot. Do I really have to mention Savages are total BS and an insult to all realms lighttanks? I must say I feel more sorry for oldtime berserkers being screwed out of groups than the victims of savages (Doesn't happen much in our guild since we wub our trolls so much).

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by hotrat
you think BoF and a 50 shield paladin (who wont be able to guard anyway cus he has to provide end for the other tanks else you won't kill anything!) will save a sorc against 3 savages your very wrong.

you know we have 1k range on shaman end regen too?, our shaman isnt sticked on assist team either, also you know that LA styles drain like 40% more end than most DW styles....

its called teamplay + end potions ..... get some decent tanks and you can have a paladin guarding when guard is needed

in mezzing healer = sorc (check walker when he plays his sorc you might learn something, its called fast reactions - something needed for CC, or RB's sorc)

in utility healer > sorc. _but_ the additional utility of bof/sos evens it out when ras are up for the albs...



remove asd, nerf savages and it shouldn't be a problem for albs to compete w/o ras..

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by hotrat
LOL just like Aussie said thats 1 healer dead leaving 2 others left, possibly with PR, even if they dont you still got plenty of CC, not to mention your SHAMAN with 2 completely different types of cc available.

Actually 90% of the time we use SoS we get adds, vs noob mids it can allow you to farm 2 or 3fg, but if we are fighting NP or so, use SoS right at the start then more mids add we got no chance.

ROFL, if anything pac healer is the porsche, sorc is more like a skoda like I said already sorc has QC to land their best mezz at almost anytime, but that best mezz has been heavily nerfed cus of det 5 and now its the secondary abilities that are more important, sorc can str/con debuff and lifetap for 150 dmg (at heavy power cost) pac healer can spread heal for 500 hits per person! and has 2 insta heals, and has far more surviveability, so obvious which is better.

you think BoF and a 50 shield paladin (who wont be able to guard anyway cus he has to provide end for the other tanks else you won't kill anything!) will save a sorc against 3 savages your very wrong.

Savage usually does 300 main hand, 150 per offhand with 1.5 second delay!!, bof pretty much halves the dmg, so around 200 every 1.5 second from each savage (this is double hits only), thats 600 dmg every 1.5 seconds from 3 savages with maybe 50% being blocked if you have a paladin guarding which you, which you won't at such an early stage in the fight.

BoF will not save a sorc from savages! what are they gonna do anyway, say they are kept alive for 10 seconds, there QC is down, clerics insta's are all used keeping you alive and they have maybe 50% power left each, you still gotta wait 20 secs for QC again. Clerics could waste their entire power bars for the 30 secs bof is on and still the sorc will have the savage on them, maybe qc ae root for 2 secs? or ST root just 1 of them for 6 secs? sorc is just useless vs det 5 tanks.

Oh and in case you forgot how hard a savage hits a sorc...
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ripple/Howards/3Quads.JPG

Check out the overpowered minstrel ablative someone mentioned in that screenshot, really kept me alive

look even Stubbe admits mids are too strong until at least asd and savages are fixed

once again after mezzing and debuffing has been done, it doesnt really matter if sorc is alive or not, sure booring for the sorc to die alot.. but thats part of the job if the sorc can tank the savages for 10sec thats still 10sec for alb tanks to get something killed, with sos the sorc should be able to stay alive atleast 30sec, and alb tanks being able to chain kill for 30sec...

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by sorusi
and after mezzing/debuffing, sorc can die, doesnt really matter that much ressed sorc can still do his job

Yer and a rezzed sorc dies if anyone so much as looks at them, also loses their pet which is a damn nice interupt tool, rezzing a sorc can be a real waste of power if they dont get the chance to cast their shields as soon as they are rezzed. Its nothing like rezzing a healer who gets their full AF, and can easily cast a base dex and con on themselves at ZERO power cost I may add, sorc has to waste 20% of their 50% power just casting af, abs, bt, mezz reduction, PoT.

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by hotrat
Yer and a rezzed sorc dies if anyone so much as looks at them, also loses their pet which is a damn nice interupt tool, rezzing a sorc can be a real waste of power if they dont get the chance to cast their shields as soon as they are rezzed. Its nothing like rezzing a healer who gets their full AF, and can easily cast a base dex and con on themselves at ZERO power cost I may add, sorc has to waste 20% of their 50% power just casting af, abs, bt, mezz reduction, PoT.

rebuffing in battle as sorc = waste of time... the thing was, once sorc has done his job/mezzewd/rooted/debuffed, he is _uselesS_ you dont even have to ress and if you do he dont even have to waste mana on rebuffing shields and shit... if the savages are that stupid so they hit a sorc that cant do jack shit (since rest of nmy grp got mezz immunity instead of cleric that is _good_ it buys the mercs time to kill the midds support...

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by sorusi
you know we have 1k range on shaman end regen too?, our shaman isnt sticked on assist team either, also you know that LA styles drain like 40% more end than most DW styles....

its called teamplay + end potions ..... get some decent tanks and you can have a paladin guarding when guard is needed

in mezzing healer = sorc (check walker when he plays his sorc you might learn something, its called fast reactions - something needed for CC, or RB's sorc)

in utility healer > sorc. _but_ the additional utility of bof/sos evens it out when ras are up for the albs...



remove asd, nerf savages and it shouldn't be a problem for albs to compete w/o ras..

LA? I know you still play your zerker sometimes, seen it like once recently, but most people use these things called savages these days, and what do you know they come with SELF end regen!
Yes we do use end potions thanks, really though like I said a guarding paladin will not keep a sorc alive much longer at all, maybe it will the clerics but thats assuming the sorc is now dead, so the savages will not be cc'd so the paladin will have to guard until they are dead which is not until the END of the fight! might as well not have a pala but use a 50 shield arms instead....

Reactions are only useful on the first mezz which is never gonna win you the fight anyway, you should know that. Vs mid fotm sorc is much more about staying out of melee range, using your pet and debuffs well, trying to mezz when you can.
A sorc is useless if its under attack, if you can kite a few savages for 10 seconds, before they give up you have taken them out of the fight for at least 15 seconds.

Also I got a new cpu recently, reaction speed is much more down to your cpu than actual human reflexes.

once again after mezzing and debuffing has been done, it doesnt really matter if sorc is alive or not, sure booring for the sorc to die alot.. but thats part of the job if the sorc can tank the savages for 10sec thats still 10sec for alb tanks to get something killed, with sos the sorc should be able to stay alive atleast 30sec, and alb tanks being able to chain kill for 30sec...

Yer but maybe the sorc wants some rp's, I wouldnt mind dieing so much if you got rp's while dead but as you don't the idea of just letting the sorc die isn't very appealing to me. That 10 sec will burn through the clerics insta's, more like 5 secs if the clerics save their power/insta's for themselves, also better to save BoF until the sorc is dead and the savages are hitting the clerics by your thinking?
SoS I agree, sorc can live for a lot lot longer when thats ready

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by sorusi
rebuffing in battle as sorc = waste of time... the thing was, once sorc has done his job/mezzewd/rooted/debuffed, he is _uselesS_ you dont even have to ress and if you do he dont even have to waste mana on rebuffing shields and shit... if the savages are that stupid so they hit a sorc that cant do jack shit (since rest of nmy grp got mezz immunity instead of cleric that is _good_ it buys the mercs time to kill the midds support...

Oh great so now you really are suggesting to just leave the sorc dead after the first mezz and debuff, its no wonder there are so few high RR sorcies on excal

Hitting a sorc right after a rez before they cast their shields is surely better than hitting a cleric, even if its just the skald by themself it will take 2 hits maximum.

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by hotrat
Reactions are only useful on the first mezz which is never gonna win you the fight anyway, you should know that. Vs mid fotm sorc is much more about staying out of melee range, using your pet and debuffs well, trying to mezz when you can.
A sorc is useless if its under attack, if you can kite a few savages for 10 seconds, before they give up you have taken them out of the fight for at least 15 seconds.

NO sorc can win mezz first... even bard can its just that in your experience you seem to never get the jump, and if you dont get the jump (get jumped) how the hell can you expect to win cc?...

how often have you NOT landed CC when you get jump, also head on, if you lead you wont land mezz, but if you are smart you have a det5 merc to lead and you wont be touched by mezz since targeting a inconnu behind a bunch of highlanders is very GG when they approach you at speed 6 (sorc unsticks as soon as nmys get into los)


if they chase for 15sec and give up they just wasted 15sec and your tanks have had time to kill some of their support

you are a bit like the zerkers on vnboard crying about how gimped their class is when its very playable and not gimped at all (only increase survivability on sorc to make them more appealing, so they wont die 24/7 - alltho wont change much of a battle outcome - only vs pbaoe boxes)

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by hotrat
Oh great so now you really are suggesting to just leave the sorc dead after the first mezz and debuff, its no wonder there are so few high RR sorcies on excal

Hitting a sorc right after a rez before they cast their shields is surely better than hitting a cleric, even if its just the skald by themself it will take 2 hits maximum.

got 5 - 10sec time where you cant get killed, this is where you run, not rush the savages and hug them

im talking about fg vs fg balance, not however sorc survivability is balanced or not, because its not as ive said earlier, im saying that sorc can get the job done necisarry to win..

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by sorusi
NO sorc can win mezz first... even bard can its just that in your experience you seem to never get the jump, and if you dont get the jump (get jumped) how the hell can you expect to win cc?...

how often have you NOT landed CC when you get jump, also head on, if you lead you wont land mezz, but if you are smart you have a det5 merc to lead and you wont be touched by mezz since targeting a inconnu behind a bunch of highlanders is very GG when they approach you at speed 6 (sorc unsticks as soon as nmys get into los)


if they chase for 15sec and give up they just wasted 15sec and your tanks have had time to kill some of their support

you are a bit like the zerkers on vnboard crying about how gimped their class is when its very playable and not gimped at all (only increase survivability on sorc to make them more appealing, so they wont die 24/7 - alltho wont change much of a battle outcome - only vs pbaoe boxes)

I often get the jump actually, and the last time I fought Xanatea's group we got a perfect jump + mezz + str/con debuff on them, still lost though, I seem to recall seeing a savage break out of mezz, trying to root it, getting taunted! interupted, having to qc root it, still getting hit twice (had to wait 2 secs before i could even begin qc rooting). Maybe I should have just ran as soon as I saw the savage running at me, would have only taken one insta stun/mezz from xanatea (whom my pet was interupting) or a insta mezz/snare from the skald and I would have been caught anyway though.

Yes I dont lead anymore and haven't for ages, it has its dis-advantages but generally its gives the sorc a lot more surviveability and allows them to use their bolt range mezz more effectively for sure.

Yep the 15 sec chase thing is exactly what I do, we both agree thats a good thing I did it in one of the fights vs JH that they recorded and we lost, main reason being their shaman did exactly the same thing to our tanks with one major advantage to help him, pbae insta disease.

If a sorc wasn't playable I wouldn't play it, but just look at duskwave, about 4 semi active sorc's (50k earned last week) now look at healer table, now I know healer includes menders, but plenty of pac healers in their as well, xanatea for starters.

Well surviveability is one of 2 things I dislike with sorc, the other is they rely so much on cc and have very little else to provide a group, unlike a pac healer. If they had more surviveablity OR determination was nerfed so their CC was better sorc would be fine.

got 5 - 10sec time where you cant get killed, this is where you run, not rush the savages and hug them

Not hard to just stick a insta mezz/stun/snare on the sorc and catch them, unless you manage to get all 3 healers and the skald mezzed and none of them have purge up.

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by hotrat
I often get the jump actually, and the last time I fought Xanatea's group we got a perfect jump + mezz + str/con debuff on them, still lost though, I seem to recall seeing a savage break out of mezz, trying to root it, getting taunted! interupted, having to qc root it, still getting hit twice (had to wait 2 secs before i could even begin qc rooting). Maybe I should have just ran as soon as I saw the savage running at me, would have only taken one insta stun/mezz from xanatea (whom my pet was interupting) or a insta mezz/snare from the skald and I would have been caught anyway though.

Yes I dont lead anymore and haven't for ages, it has its dis-advantages but generally its gives the sorc a lot more surviveability and allows them to use their bolt range mezz more effectively for sure.

Yep the 15 sec chase thing is exactly what I do, we both agree thats a good thing I did it in one of the fights vs JH that they recorded and we lost, main reason being their shaman did exactly the same thing to our tanks with one major advantage to help him, pbae insta disease.

If a sorc wasn't playable I wouldn't play it, but just look at duskwave, about 4 semi active sorc's (50k earned last week) now look at healer table, now I know healer includes menders, but plenty of pac healers in their as well, xanatea for starters.

Well surviveability is one of 2 things I dislike with sorc, the other is they rely so much on cc and have very little else to provide a group, unlike a pac healer. If they had more surviveablity OR determination was nerfed so their CC was better sorc would be fine.Not hard to just stick a insta mezz/stun/snare on the sorc and catch them, unless you manage to get all 3 healers and the skald mezzed and none of them have purge up.

look at albion on excal on whole and see that they have low rp income, because there are no balanced good grps every grp out there has their misstakes and gimpspecs etc

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by sorusi
look at albion on excal on whole and see that they have low rp income, because there are no balanced good grps every grp out there has their misstakes and gimpspecs etc

My rp income was a lot better a few months ago just after zerker nerf and just before every man and his dog rolled a fotm savage.

Now you can't meet a mid fg that isn't fotm, and mostly im getting less rp's cus I don't much enjoy fighting them when SoS is down, so therefore I dont fight them as much (i.e. dont play my sorc as much ) Also it seems to have got a lot more zergie recently.

Its got nothing to do with mistakes we make or gimp specs, its far more to do with the enemies we face, mostly how fotm they are but also how many they are.

The time just before JH got good was prolly best for me, I remember fighting JH when they were low RR and pwning em all the time, then suddenly their savages got high det and DR, the healers learnt to asd, the shaman used disease aggressively, and they became very hard to beat. Its nothing to do with albs, its all about mids and how they adapt to the new flavours of the month.

 

[sorusi]

Originally posted by hotrat
My rp income was a lot better a few months ago just after zerker nerf and just before every man and his dog rolled a fotm savage.

Now you can't meet a mid fg that isn't fotm, and mostly im getting less rp's cus I don't much enjoy fighting them when SoS is down, so therefore I dont fight them as much (i.e. dont play my sorc as much ) Also it seems to have got a lot more zergie recently.

Its got nothing to do with mistakes we make or gimp specs, its far more to do with the enemies we face, mostly how fotm they are but also how many they are.

The time just before JH got good was prolly best for me, I remember fighting JH when they were low RR and pwning em all the time, then suddenly their savages got high det and DR, the healers learnt to asd, the shaman used disease aggressively, and they became very hard to beat. Its nothing to do with albs, its all about mids and how they adapt to the new flavours of the month.

majority of mercs are slash gimps, and stuff like that, most grps dont even have enuff light tanks in them etc... LOTS of albs wasteing grp RAs to escape to apk

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by sorusi
majority of mercs are slash gimps, and stuff like that, most grps dont even have enuff light tanks in them etc... LOTS of albs wasteing grp RAs to escape to apk

Well I know for a fact a lot of these slash mercs will be respecing to thrust once the new thrust weapons arrive in the next patch.
SoS is often wasted not by running to apk but by using it then getting adds and losing anyway. I'm sure you have seen my video and will agree the SoS usage in the first fight was perfect, you will also notice it was on adds, and that it didn't win us the fight becuase of more adds.