Politics The General Election 2015

[Job]

I think Farage was genuinely relieved, he can still court the press without making the real decisions.
Got to be the last.first past the post, the people just won't stand for it anymore.

 

[Raven]

Who cares about working class backgrounds these days?

There is no working class any more, people can't relate to it. Working class are now middle class and served better by the Tories. Bottom of the rung are the dolers, who largely don't vote anyway.

The only people who vote labour are people who think they work down'pit when in fact they work in an office and people who read about the big meany ginger lady who was horrible to the miney whineys back in the middle ages.

 

[Poag]

Who cares about working class backgrounds these days?

There is no working class any more, people can't relate to it. Working class are now middle class and served better by the Tories. Bottom of the rung are the dolers, who largely don't vote anyway.

The only people who vote labour are people who think they work down'pit when in fact they work in an office and people who read about the big meany ginger lady who was horrible to the miney whineys back in the middle ages.

Are you having some sort of a seizure?

Best get down the Hospita....oh wait its closed...

 

[Gwadien]

Frankly, if we changed the system, then Scotland WOULD leave, because then they would have a Government that they didn't vote for.

Democracy doe.

I don't know @Raven I think the class system is very much still in place, it's just that politicians are very good at bundling people into large categories to make campaigning easier.

If you work for EDF answering phone calls, you're working class, class isn't defined by particular jobs that you do.

 

[old.user4556]

What do the Scots think of Jim Murphy @Big G?

In my circles, patronising cunt.

 

[Poag]

Frankly, if we changed the system, then Scotland WOULD leave, because then they would have a Government that they didn't vote for.

Democracy doe.

?

They'd have a proportion of the British Government relative to their voting base. However in the Scottish assembly they'd still have all the power of the devolved powers? split up again by proportional rep for the parties in Scotland...same for Wales.

I maybe misunderstanding you?

 

[Gwadien]

?

They'd have a proportion of the British Government relative to their voting base. However in the Scottish assembly they'd still have all the power of the devolved powers? split up again by proportional rep for the parties in Scotland...same for Wales.

I maybe misunderstanding you?

I was thinking it more of the terms that if it was more representative on the number of votes, then yes, it would be more 'fair' but in the Scottish point of view, they'd get less seats?

 

[Job]

Farage hasn't ruled out re election..probably going for a break...so he'll be back...sorry guys.

 

[Poag]

I was thinking it more of the terms that if it was more representative on the number of votes, then yes, it would be more 'fair' but in the Scottish point of view, they'd get less seats?

I see what you mean, there would need to be a strong PR run to make people understand the change.

But i don't think anyone can really argue that 4.8% of the vote should gain 8.8% of the power, when 7.7% of the vote gets 1.25% of the power.

 

[Scouse]

Farage hasn't ruled out re election..probably going for a break...so he'll be back...sorry guys.

UKIP would be nowhere without him. Cult of personality.

They'll revote him in. The "resignation" promise was just a load of bullshit that he knew would play well to the idiot electorate who voted for him.

 

[Scouse]

But i don't think anyone can really argue that 4.8% of the vote should gain 8.8% of the power, when 7.7% of the vote gets 1.25% of the power.

Vote to change it!

The conservatives & labour would love that. Erm no. Wait.

 

[Gwadien]

I see what you mean, there would need to be a strong PR run to make people understand the change.

But i don't think anyone can really argue that 4.8% of the vote should gain 8.8% of the power, when 7.7% of the vote gets 1.25% of the power.

Doubt it, the SNP would have a field day of accusing Westminster of taking seats away from Scotland due to the SNP.

 

[DaGaffer]

I dont think this is getting enough coverage atm.

View attachment 24706

By % of vote. UKIP are a great example of why Proportional representation should be a thing. Of the whole country they got (almost) 3x the vote of the SNP. But a 50th the representation.

Can throw the same example at the Lib Dems... twice the vote, 14% the rep.

I just dont think thats right....

Actually you can argue it the other way. UKIP vote is 12%. This is pretty much the default far right vote across Europe (and the default far left vote, its just normal distribution and its surprisingly persistant), PR can often distort the other way and over-represent the swivel-eyed looney vote. The problem with the UK isn't first past the post so much as the regional representation issue. What probably needs to happen is some kind of federalisation of the UK; Scotland, Wales and NI obviously, but a division of England as well, so you end up with something more akin to the German Lander model.

 

[Poag]

Vote to change it!

The conservatives & labour would love that. Erm no. Wait.

Yer it'll never happen, i just wish it would

Doubt it, the SNP would have a field day of accusing Westminster of taking seats away from Scotland due to the SNP.

It annoys me, but you are correct. As above I doubt it'll ever happen...i just wish it would.


Some sort of benevolent dictatorship for a couple of years followed by a rejig?

 

[Gwadien]

Actually you can argue it the other way. UKIP vote is 12%. This is pretty much the default far right vote across Europe (and the default far left vote, its just normal distribution and its surprisingly persistant), PR can often distort the other way and over-represent the swivel-eyed looney vote. The problem with the UK isn't first past the post so much as the regional representation issue. What probably needs to happen is some kind of federalisation of the UK; Scotland, Wales and NI obviously, but a division of England as well, so you end up with something more akin to the German Lander model.

More money, more bureaucracy.

That won't go down well.

 

[Poag]

German Lander model.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_Germany ?

Having a read.

 

[Gwadien]

I'm happy with the outcome.

Simply because of there's no coalition.

So the Tories can do what ever they like, if they fuck up, they lose the next election, they can't blame the Lib Dems.

 

[Scouse]

PR can often distort the other way and over-represent the swivel-eyed looney vote.

How so?

10% loony right, 10% loony left, 20% loonies in parliament. Proportional representation.

But yeah - I agree with you on federalism. The UK is screaming out for it tbh.

 

[Zarjazz]

Well I thought I this tweet was pretty good:

Farage now has some difficult decisions to make. I'm A Celebrity or Big Brother?

 

[Gwadien]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_Germany ?

Having a read.

Thing is with Germany, they've got a thousand years worth of history to back up that kind of Government, all they've really done is replaced an Emperor with a Government.

 

[chipper]

That flag was there since 2010 scouse and it was for the 2010 world cup I've left it because I do love England. And that's exactly why I voted blue because I think when it comes to world affairs milliband would just bend over and take it up the ass willingly. am gutted Labour got pounded the way it did but maybe it's for the best a clear message has been sent to milliband ie fuck off he's ruined Labour and it'll take a long time to recover

 

[DaGaffer]

Thing is with Germany, they've got a thousand years worth of history to back up that kind of Government, all they've really done is replaced an Emperor with a Government.

Hardly. There's almost no comparison between modern federal Germany and everything that came before it. The problem with the UK is that it currently has a kind of half-arsed federalism that doesn't actually represent the majority of the population (the English).

 

[Job]

I've just found out that the wife knows Jim Murphy well, kinda kept that quiet, hmmmmmm.

 

[Aoami]

Mr Clegg continues: "We will never know how many lives we have changed for the better because we had the courage to step up at a time of crisis."

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"COURAGE TO STEP UP"

AHAAHAHAHAHA

 

[DaGaffer]

How so?

10% loony right, 10% loony left, 20% loonies in parliament. Proportional representation.

But yeah - I agree with you on federalism. The UK is screaming out for it tbh.

Yes, but because PR goverments tend to be coalitions, the fringe parties get to be power brokers and have to be courted by the more centrist parties to get things over the line.

 

[Gwadien]

Hardly. There's almost no comparison between modern federal Germany and everything that came before it. The problem with the UK is that it currently has a kind of half-arsed federalism that doesn't actually represent the majority of the population (the English).

Er, there kind of is, look at all the states, have they changed since the time of the HRE? Not really, there's still the same borders etc.

As I say, they've replaced the Emperor with a Government and the Dukes with state government.

If we copy them, what are we going to do? renew Mercia, Wessex etc etc?

 

[Embattle]

Triple party leader wipeout.

 

[Embattle]

Yay more working people.

 

[DaGaffer]

Er, there kind of is, look at all the states, have they changed since the time of the HRE? Not really, there's still the same borders etc.

As I say, they've replaced the Emperor with a Government and the Dukes with state government.

If we copy them, what are we going to do? renew Mercia, Wessex etc etc?

Before unification Germany had about 300 petty states, and they didn't all defer to the Holy Roman Emperor (not at all - see 30 years war). Modern Germany has 16 states that may have olde worlde names, but don't really relate to the "old" Germany in any meaningful way politically.

Actually the old Mercia/Wessex/Northumberland/East Anglia division isn't the worst idea from a population POV. You'd probably break "Wessex" into two though (devolving the South West without giving Cornish idiots ideas above their station).

 

[Zarjazz]

Yes, but because PR goverments tend to be coalitions, the fringe parties get to be power brokers and have to be courted by the more centrist parties to get things over the line.

Which is why I may like the idea of PR in principle but countries tend be better run with only one party in charge. So, lets scrap this democracy lark - dictorships FTW!

You also have to ask if it was a PR based system would the results have been the same? How many of those Green / UKIP / Other numbers were protest votes rather than what people actually wanted to vote for?