Formula 1 The F1 jibber jabber thread.

[old.user4556]

I had a dream last night that either Jensen Button or Lewis Hamilton crashed and died.

 

[Kryten]

Was indeed a great race. Button drove his usual faultless style and it paid off, along with some tactical thinking of his own. Hamilton also drove one hell of a race and people seem to conveniently forget he drove it and trounced pretty much everyone else with far less downforce due to missing half of his front wing, thanks to Alonso.
Webber seemed rather out of sorts today - I wonder if he was holding a hump for Hamilton after Lewis suggested he might retire end of season
Typically unlucky for Vettel - reliability strikes again, mechanical this time.
Too right a superb drive for Kubica - I'm still annoyed he didn't get a better drive than Renault this year, I fancied seeing him up front a bit more.

 

[kirennia]

Hamilton also drove one hell of a race and people seem to conveniently forget he drove it and trounced pretty much everyone else with far less downforce due to missing half of his front wing, thanks to Alonso.

He did drive a very good race but that front wing was his own fault; he does have a tendancy to get a little too close to others down the straights when trying to overtake, hehe. Brazil last year he pretty much destroyed Barrichellos race by doing the same thing as an example.

It was Massa who he drove into; Massa on that occasion was moving consistantly off to the right, Hamilton just mistimed it, determined to get the inside line.

 

[Ch3tan]

Really enjoyed that race, although hamilton has every right to be angry, bizarre decision making.

 

[gunner440]

After King Fernando's start I had images of the video game 'WRONG WAY' message flashing up inside his visor

So 4th is pretty good I think!

 

[ST^]

After King Fernando's start I had images of the video game 'WRONG WAY' message flashing up inside his visor

So 4th is pretty good I think!

He would've won if Button didn't ruin his race.

 

[ECA]

Really enjoyed that race, although hamilton has every right to be angry, bizarre decision making.

He's the driver, it's ultimately his call.

It really does seem like Hamilton just drives FAST and let's the team worry about everything else.

Other drivers are much more capable of reading the race.

 

[ST^]

You're fooling yourself if you think Hamilton would've kept his tyres in the same condition as Button's

 

[Krazeh]

You're fooling yourself if you think Hamilton would've kept his tyres in the same condition as Button's

Perhaps not but he may very well have managed to keep them in good enough condition to have taken 2nd and kept Kubica and the Ferarris behind him till the end.

 

[ECA]

You're fooling yourself if you think Hamilton would've kept his tyres in the same condition as Button's

You're right, by driving much more aggressively he probably wore them out a lot faster/worse condition.

This new style should suit Jenson much more than Lewis ( one stop, long stints on the same tyres ).

 

[Kryten]

Will depend on each track too - many circuits demand a fluent and smooth style, whereas others will reward for sticking your neck out. Expect Lewis to romp home at Silverstone and Spa for instance. (the former being a slightly unknown quantity with that new section of course)

And before anyone starts blaming Button on anything, he did drive a *faultless* race today and certainly can't be blamed for Alonso's misfortune. The luck there was created both by himself and his team with, like a few others, moronic mirror placements.

 

[DaGaffer]

Don't understand why F1 cars still have mirrors; a rear-facing camera would be more aerodynamic.

Was really pleased for Button yesterday, especially enjoyed Martin Brundle (and others) eating humble pie as it became obvious Button had made the smart call on the tyres. Of course if Red Bull can ever manage to deliver a reliable car, Vettel is going to walk away with the championship.

 

[ST^]

And before anyone starts blaming Button on anything, he did drive a *faultless* race today and certainly can't be blamed for Alonso's misfortune.

He can't be blamed for driving into Alonso and causing him to spin out? the fuhq...

 

[DaGaffer]

He can't be blamed for driving into Alonso and causing him to spin out? the fuhq...

Racing incident. If Alonso hadn't made such a crap start he wouldn't have been squeezed between Button and Schumacher in the first place. Shit happens.

 

[ECA]

Will depend on each track too - many circuits demand a fluent and smooth style, whereas others will reward for sticking your neck out. Expect Lewis to romp home at Silverstone and Spa for instance. (the former being a slightly unknown quantity with that new section of course)

I dunno, given the new one-stop only, surely tyre management has gone from a marginal skill to one of the most important?

Some circuits are faster with a more aggressive style but surely that's going to punish the tyres and a 2stop will be slower than a single stop?

I don't know if any circuits will favour a 2-stop if you can manage your tyres reasonably and 1 stop.

( There might be I just don't know enough to say one way or the other whether it's true or even close to true or completely false. )

Of course if Red Bull can ever manage to deliver a reliable car, Vettel is going to walk away with the championship.

Not sure about this, obviously Vettel is a great driver - but just like last year - performance between the teams will change over the course of the year.

He can't be blamed for driving into Alonso and causing him to spin out? the fuhq...

Alonso drove into him from the looks of it

:lol:

 

[ECA]

Oh god this is hilarious.

BBC News - Australian minister criticises Lewis Hamilton

Mr Pallas criticised the 25-year-old British racing driver on the day that Victoria launched a Don't Be a Dickhead road safety campaign.
Asked whether Lewis Hamilton met that description, he said: "OK, I'll say it. He's a dickhead."

 

[ST^]

Racing incident. If Alonso hadn't made such a crap start he wouldn't have been squeezed between Button and Schumacher in the first place. Shit happens.

Calling it a racing incident doesn't take any blame away. To put it in perspective, Webber on Hamilton was also a "racing incident". Oh, but because the English driver is the victim here, it's completely different!

 

[ECA]

Calling it a racing incident doesn't take any blame away. To put it in perspective, Webber on Hamilton was also a "racing incident". Oh, but because the English driver is the victim here, it's completely different!

When deebs is away, the trolls come to play.

 

[DaGaffer]

Calling it a racing incident doesn't take any blame away. To put it in perspective, Webber on Hamilton was also a "racing incident". Oh, but because the English driver is the victim here, it's completely different!

Not really, Weber was directly behind Hamilton, Button had nowhere to go with Alonso and was on the (or at least 'a') racing line. Look at this way, Weber apologised to Hamilton, Button didn't feel the need to do so with Alonso, and as far as I'm aware Alonso hasn't complained about the contact.

 

[kirennia]

All I know is that if a car has less then 50% of its total length alongside you, it's their responsibility to back off. Otherwise overtaking is essentially just tipping your nose alongside someone on the inside line and they have to back off which is just plain wrong.

Button approached the corner alongside Alonso so he had the right to be there but he braked a lot earlier. He was around 50% alongside, give or take when Alonso turned in so still had the right to be there but Alonso could ahve thought he had backed off because of those stupid wing mirrors. Watching it again, Alonso simply had nowhere to go though. Button was creeping in to the right and Schumacher was already turning in to his left... Schumacher was also right to be there though so I don't particularly think it was any of those three drivers fault.

Not really, Weber was directly behind Hamilton, Button had nowhere to go with Alonso and was on the (or at least 'a') racing line.

The inside is certainly not the racing line (as you clarified) but using 'a' racing line for your analogy, if the very inside of a corner is classed as 'a' racing line at all then the entire track is a racing line, thus the argument is moot for or against any past, current or future debates...unless they go off the track which tbh, if Button had of put two wheels off the track, he may well have gotten the place and had the move still been legal.

Look at this way, Weber apologised to Hamilton, Button didn't feel the need to do so with Alonso, and as far as I'm aware Alonso hasn't complained about the contact.

Webber was 100% wrong and he knew it... I actually don't think Button was in the wrong, nor Alonso, nor Schumacher particularly but only punishing people when complaints are made is setting a silly precident. If that were the case, Hamilton would not have been caught cheating last year and punished... I personally think any case of malpractice should be looked into, completely absent of any drivers input. The stewards should be able to highlight any need for punishment by themselves...

 

[ST^]

Not really, Weber was directly behind Hamilton, Button had nowhere to go with Alonso and was on the (or at least 'a') racing line. Look at this way, Weber apologised to Hamilton, Button didn't feel the need to do so with Alonso, and as far as I'm aware Alonso hasn't complained about the contact.

Sorry for shit quality. My arrow is pointing at Button. Tell me seriously that you think he is on the racing line, that he really shouldn't have yielded at that point?

 

[kirennia]

Sorry for shit quality. My arrow is pointing at Button. Tell me seriously that you think he is on the racing line, that he really shouldn't have yielded at that point?

Didn't they hit within 0.1seconds of that picture or had they already hit by then? By that point it was already too late...

edit: Different angle, they had just about hit at this point, about 0.05seconds earlier and Button was 50% alongside.

 

[ST^]

Didn't they hit within 0.1seconds of that picture or had they already hit by then? By that point it was already too late...

Well here is where I got it from:

YouTube - F1 Australia 2010 Highlights

You can see Button was always that far back from Alonso, as long as the camera showed that viewpoint anyway. And look how tight the corner is, being that far on the inside is not the racing line.

 

[DaGaffer]

Sorry for shit quality. My arrow is pointing at Button. Tell me seriously that you think he is on the racing line, that he really shouldn't have yielded at that point?

That tells you nothing! Alonso was already cutting across Button at that point and forcing him right; even if he'd stood on the anchors right there it would be too late. Now Alonso didn't have much choice because Schumacher is to his left, but Button can't see that. And as I said in the earlier post, they're alongside each other, Weber wasn't.

 

[Jupitus]

Alonso turned in on him, which in that situation is daft - it's not as if there isn't enough room for the cars to get through the first corner safely - right afterwards 3 cars do all get round abreast of each other...

 

[ST^]

Alonso turned in on him, which in that situation is daft - it's not as if there isn't enough room for the cars to get through the first corner safely - right afterwards 3 cars do all get round abreast of each other...

If Button was "alongside" Alonso, maybe you're right. But Alonso was way ahead of him AND had the proper racing line. You cannot charge up the inside of people and then say "he shouldn't have turned in on me", that's not racing.

It seems even photographic evidence is useless against blind support for English drivers :<

 

[kirennia]

You can see Button was always that far back from Alonso, as long as the camera showed that viewpoint anyway.

Maybe look at another viewpoint then?

It seems even photographic evidence is useless against blind support for English drivers :<

How ironic.

If Button was "alongside" Alonso, maybe you're right. But Alonso was way ahead of him AND had the proper racing line.

Did you even read the 50% rule? Once 50% of the car gets alongside, that's it... you have to try to give them enough room going into the corner and cannot cut them off. Of all of them, Button was the most foolish but it wasn't enough his fault to have any kind of penalty placed against him.

 

[DaGaffer]

If Button was "alongside" Alonso, maybe you're right. But Alonso was way ahead of him AND had the proper racing line. You cannot charge up the inside of people and then say "he shouldn't have turned in on me", that's not racing.

It seems even photographic evidence is useless against blind support for English drivers :<

"Way" ahead means clear air. Go and look at the video again. Where they come into frame on that camera angle your picture shows, Alonso is half a car length ahead, and cutting across. When they touch, he's still half a car length, and has moved across Button's nose. Button didn't charge up the inside of Alonso.

 

[ST^]

Maybe look at another viewpoint then?

Showing us the situation 50 metres back doesn't exactly tell us anything. I showed you the situation going into the corner -_-

Did you even read the 50% rule? Once 50% of the car gets alongside, that's it... you have to try to give them enough room going into the corner and cannot cut them off. Of all of them, Button was the most foolish but it wasn't enough his fault to have any kind of penalty placed against him.

I didn't say it was enough for a penalty, I just said he cost Alonso a probable win. And you think Button is past or at 50% on the video I posted? Seriously?!

 

[kirennia]

Showing us the situation 50 metres back doesn't exactly tell us anything. I showed you the situation going into the corner -_-

/sigh...

You can see Button was always that far back from Alonso, as long as the camera showed that viewpoint anyway.

My picture shows that he wasn't always 50 meters back, pure and simple.

I didn't say it was enough for a penalty, I just said he cost Alonso a probable win.

No you didn't say it was enough for a penalty. In fact, you didn't even say he cost Alonso a probable win, you just jumped into the thread to attack people about an issue which hadn't even yet been raised...

And you think Button is past or at 50% on the video I posted? Seriously?!

Are you sure you're looking at the right Ferrari as they approach the corner? Yes, I'm certain that 50% of Buttons car was alongside Alonso as they touched, not 50% past, not 50% above, 50% of his car was alongside.

You keep on commenting on that single video as if it's the holy book and none others are important; try looking at the helicopter view of the incident, clearly showing that Button had the right to continue around that line even though it was a completely daft thing to do approaching the first corner of the first lap. He got away with it this time, mostly people who do that really don't, himself included.

Button didn't solely cost Alonso the potential opportunity to maybe have a possible go at chancing a reasonable attack toward winning the grand prix. Alonso cost himself the opportunity, Button cost him the opportunity and Schumacher cost him the opportunity. Theoretically, he wouldn't have been in that position had Massa not have charged ahead, Webber have had a slow start taking the far left of the corner and Vettel not positioned himself on pole either. What if, what if, what if.

My point? It wasn't directly anyones fault; it was merely an unfortunate circumstance as we didn't get to see Schumacher running in 4th and Alonso battling his way up from 5th. Instead what we did see was a racing incident on the first corner which saw Alonso go to the back of the grid and drive superbly back upto 4th, creating a great race which everybody seemed to enjoy APART from those who only get enjoyment from seeing 'their driver' win or a particular team/nation fail so they can gloat. Enjoy it for what it was, a great race and hold note that over the course of the season, generally the better driver/team combo will win out so Alonso still has a good chance at this years championship...