The Boris Era

Job

The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
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Were gonna get hit with our own stick.
 

DaGaffer

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From his first commons speech.

We will be the centre of genetics after being released from modification rules.

Strange no ones picked up on that.
Genetic foods or human genetics? Because if its foods more than twice as many people in the UK are against than for GMOs so...ok. Weird, but OK. If its human genetics the WHO are about to get a global mandate so leaving the EU will make no difference.
 

Gwadien

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I thought lefties were the snowflakes now im confused
I think that's because he's realised most of his complaints are utterly pathetic compared to real issues which are labelled as 'snowflake issues'.

It's his subconscious shining through.

Also, Obama did 9/11.
 

DaGaffer

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Every passing day I'm getting more angry about what's going on; not at Boris or the Tories; they're scum being scum, no surprise there. No, its Labour; they're the ones letting the country down. It should be a slam dunk Labour landslide at the next election given the shitshow of the last three years, but instead, we could have an election and Boris Johnson, Boris-fucking-de Pfeffel-Johnson, could still win, and probably will.
 

Moriath

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Labour are not the workers party any more. They have just a different version of tory. Since blair really. And corbyn needs to differentiate and push workers rights and benefits to be different.

Only reason everyone joined labour to vote for corbyn was cause a lot of them were putting him there cause he would make tories stay in power longer. Seems to work. Haha
 

Gwadien

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Corbyn wanted to tax the rich.

So in response they started a campaign of the following;

antisemitism.

Meets with terrorists before it's cool.

Wants to turn the UK into a Communist state.

The people wanted a way out of austerity and Toryism, 2 options were presented; Corbyn or Brexit, the people went with Brexit because that's got more money behind it.

What annoys me more about the whole situation is that people would rather accept a very right wing Government who only has rich in mind when it comes to all policies rather than a politician who has worked his entire life for the working masses, but the people believe that a no-deal Brexit (and fucking Boris Johnson) is going to be better for them than a Corbyn Government. Either option will possibly trash the economy, but more will die under the Tories.
 

Scouse

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Every passing day I'm getting more angry about what's going on; not at Boris or the Tories; they're scum being scum, no surprise there. No, its Labour; they're the ones letting the country down. It should be a slam dunk Labour landslide at the next election given the shitshow of the last three years, but instead, we could have an election and Boris Johnson, Boris-fucking-de Pfeffel-Johnson, could still win, and probably will.
I think they're holding their powder dry for when an election is called. It'll be called in short order, then they'll make all their policy announcements.

They'll be hoping for a massive swing post policy announcements - they'll go full populist, just in the opposite way the tories have.

No point in announcing anything now - Brexit'll swamp it - like it has pretty much everything else.


(Worries me if they get in, because they'll fuck over landlords more than they already have been by the Tories with a load of new taxes. Considering btl isn't really very profitable (it's break-even) at the moment additional tax (as opposed to, you know, using the laws they already have to improve quality and conditions of private landlord offerings) will fuck me over properly (as my old house is my pension) - all because they've the perception that all landlords are "rich" or something).
 

Gwadien

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(Worries me if they get in, because they'll fuck over landlords more than they already have been by the Tories with a load of new taxes. Considering btl isn't really very profitable (it's break-even) at the moment additional tax (as opposed to, you know, using the laws they already have to improve quality and conditions of private landlord offerings) will fuck me over properly (as my old house is my pension) - all because they've the perception that all landlords are "rich" or something).
Then sell your house and put in a pension pot; that will help with the shortage of housing.

That or remove the culture of owning our own houses and cut rent prices.
 
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Scouse

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Then sell your house and put in a pension pot; that will help with the shortage of housing.
Shows how much you know about pension contributions, how much you're allowed to put in, when you're allowed to put it in, the tax implications. You can't just sell your asset and stick all the money in a pension pot. Plus, Labour have already shown they're happy to change the rules on taxing pensions when it suits them - and they're probably going to do the same again - so I don't trust a pension pot (or it's inflexibility - I stick it in a pension, there's nothing I can do with the cash until I retire - so it comes at a massive opportunity cost as well - what if we want to sell up in Nottingham and, say, move to a bigger house in Wales? Or raise funds for a doer-upper? Or move abroad?

What if my relationship went titsup? Should I sell the house now and then find I have to get back on the fucking property ladder?

Balls to that. I own my old house (I worked hard for that btw), moved in with my girlfriend, rent it out and maintain it to a high standard. That's perfectly reasonable behaviour. I'm not the problem.

I understand Robbie Fowler owns 180-odd houses in Liverpool. The Tories have massively increased taxes on landlords who own less than 16 houses. I'd be looking somewhere else.
 

Wij

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Corbyn wanted to tax the rich.

So in response they started a campaign of the following;

antisemitism.

Meets with terrorists before it's cool.

Wants to turn the UK into a Communist state.

The people wanted a way out of austerity and Toryism, 2 options were presented; Corbyn or Brexit, the people went with Brexit because that's got more money behind it.

What annoys me more about the whole situation is that people would rather accept a very right wing Government who only has rich in mind when it comes to all policies rather than a politician who has worked his entire life for the working masses, but the people believe that a no-deal Brexit (and fucking Boris Johnson) is going to be better for them than a Corbyn Government. Either option will possibly trash the economy, but more will die under the Tories.
Your diagnosis of why Corbyn isn't capturing the imagination of the public is very one-sided. He appears to the public pretty much the way he actually is. Not terribly bright and more interested in left-wing, factional disputes from Latin America in the 1970s than in Britain in 2019. More interested in protest and ideological purity than in governing.

He sold himself as the person who would let the Labour members decide policy and then ignores them in favour of his communist buddies like Seumas Milne. That just looks two-faced. From a guy who promised a new, honest politics, looking two-faced and just as bad as the rest is poison.

He said he would bring refreshhing honesty and plain-speaking but ask what his Brexit position is and you get a fact-dodging word-salad that even Blair and Brown would have been ashamed of.

Sure the right-wing press is giving him a hard-time but don't use that as an excuse to ignore his genuine, actual failings.
 

Scouse

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He sold himself as the person who would let the Labour members decide policy
As far as I'm aware - Labour has voted on policy and nothing is policy unless it gets democratically ratified.

He said he would bring refreshhing honesty and plain-speaking but ask what his Brexit position is and you get a fact-dodging word-salad that even Blair and Brown would have been ashamed of.
Brexit is a shitshow all around. Labour is fence-sitting - and you hate them for that being a die-hard remainer - but given their members are split between leave and remain then the official party position of "we'd like a deal, but we must leave" is perfectly reasonable.

It's just the fact that *you* hate that position that makes you think otherwise. Anyone with other than a hard-remain position is "fact dodging" to you. But bring up the state of EU Democracy, for example...

The antisemitism thing is a disgrace - not labour's handling of it - not a single political party has been as transparent and open about their procedures and as clearly condemning of antisemitism and racism in all it's forms as Labour has been recently. It's a disgrace because clearly the Labour leadership is pro-palistinian and anti-Israeli policy and that's the reason why when such robust action has been taken to address the tiny minority of Labour members who are actually antisemites the issue won't (ever) resolve.

That single thing alone could be deemed responsible for Labour's malaise. But add that to the fact that the current labour administration isn't just Tory-Lite - which "New Labour" was - and the fact that a load of sitting MPs aren't actually very leftist - but clearly still diehard New Labour (which was an abject failure - and needs to die as an idea) then the infighting (which is still ongoing) doesn't help either.

But meh.
 

DaGaffer

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Corbyn wanted to tax the rich.

So in response they started a campaign of the following;

antisemitism.

Meets with terrorists before it's cool.

Wants to turn the UK into a Communist state.

The people wanted a way out of austerity and Toryism, 2 options were presented; Corbyn or Brexit, the people went with Brexit because that's got more money behind it.

What annoys me more about the whole situation is that people would rather accept a very right wing Government who only has rich in mind when it comes to all policies rather than a politician who has worked his entire life for the working masses, but the people believe that a no-deal Brexit (and fucking Boris Johnson) is going to be better for them than a Corbyn Government. Either option will possibly trash the economy, but more will die under the Tories.
Stop blaming the Establishment for fighting dirty; it's what they do. The problem is Corbyn's supine response to the challenge. He's not a fighter, he's not an orator, and he's simply not communicating to the public what Labour's alternative to Boris and hard Brexit actually is, and even if Boris called a GE tomorrow I wouldn't expect that to change. Corbyn is an "empty uniform" (or in his case, dufflecoat) who doesnt have a clue about what it takes to win elections. The other problem is that he doesnt seem to be any more trustworthy than the Tories, it's just their style is outright lies whereas his is evasion and obfuscation.

Seriously; in any same universe Labour would be battering the Tories into the dust by now, and its entirely Corbyn's fault they're not.
 

Scouse

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Seriously; in any same universe Labour would be battering the Tories into the dust by now, and its entirely Corbyn's fault they're not.
Actually, I think the "for the many, not the few" tagline is scaring the b'jeezus out of most people.
 

DaGaffer

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Scouse

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I genuinely dont think it's a problem, or at least not the main one. Alistair Campbell hits the nail on the head in today's Graun, and say what you like about Campbell, he knows how to win elections.
Yeah. I read that - and if I was "New Labour" I'd agree with him.

But Alistair Campbell is a slimy cunt who admits he's not even in the country at the moment (he's in Oz), and voted Lib Dem in the last election. He's not Labour - he's exactly the sort of New Labour Tory-Lite problem that I mentioned above.

Instead of sniping at Labour from the sidelines - making a Tory victory more likely - he should just fucking leave if he doesn't like it any more. - He's had his shot. He failed, and New Labour was a failure. All the New Labour whiners are doing is making it harder for Labour to present an alternative through infighting - thus strengthening the Tories.

To be fair to them though - they're closer to the Tories than the current Labour bigwigs - so that's probably the problem.
 

DaGaffer

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Yeah. I read that - and if I was "New Labour" I'd agree with him.

But Alistair Campbell is a slimy cunt who admits he's not even in the country at the moment (he's in Oz), and voted Lib Dem in the last election. He's not Labour - he's exactly the sort of New Labour Tory-Lite problem that I mentioned above.

Instead of sniping at Labour from the sidelines - making a Tory victory more likely - he should just fucking leave if he doesn't like it any more. - He's had his shot. He failed, and New Labour was a failure. All the New Labour whiners are doing is making it harder for Labour to present an alternative through infighting - thus strengthening the Tories.

To be fair to them though - they're closer to the Tories than the current Labour bigwigs - so that's probably the problem.
None of that matters right now. Having a position for the good of the nation is the right thing to do. There's a vast potential swing if Corbyn's not in charge. If he is, say hello to hard Brexit, penury and five years of Boris Johnson.
 

Scouse

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None of that matters right now. Having a position for the good of the nation is the right thing to do.
They've got a position. They've got leave but only with a deal. If their electorate is split, then it's the right position too.

I don't really understand the pressure for Labour to "come up with something" - because they're not the ones in government. They have to sit there and wait for the Tories to fail, for a general election to happen. I can't see that there's anything for them to do right now over and above what they're doing - which is hammering hard on the stuff that isn't getting covered because everything = Brexit.
 

Wij

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