Sums up AoC

[Faeldawn]

Yeah? What's that?

PL'ing to 50?

Think he's talking about pvp tbh.

 

[PewPewAS50.50]

you cant compare a game thats DESIGNED to be a grind fest to one thats supposedly meant to be a quest leveling game. i mean the xp rewards from the quests in DaoC before the xp boost were all but pathetic.

DAoC was originally designed around spawn camping and dungeon crawling. not questing.

and again, noone really had any ACTUAL experience with mmo's back when DAoC came out. there were basically only EQ and AO and they were pretty much the same, all grind.

then MMO's got released that had shitloads of quests and the xp rewards actually showed a difference on the xp bar. then we got spoiled and most wanted all our mmo's to be like that. because grinding is for easily entertained people.

You make no sense mate.

EQ came what 1994? DAoC came 2001. So DAoC had what ? 7 years of experience to take from EQ, yet DAoC exping system was just 100% grind.

Yet you still make the parallell between DAoC and how AoC should have learn their lessons from that game/other games etc etc.

Nowhere does it say AoC is a game where you get all exp form quests. All you do is compare the game to WoW wich in the start had shitty quests aswell and on many classes grinding was faster 1-60 then doing the actual quests.

If you do not like AoC do no play it, go back to WoW or wait for WAR if you think that game will be worth your time.

Personally I think AoC is the game with the most potential since DAoC came in 2001. It is not perfect but neither has any game 1 month old been, and jugding from the pace they implement and update things this is 10x the speed of DAoC and 100x the speed GoA used to have when implementing new stuff and fixes.

My sincere conclusion of people whining atm is

1) Have no clue and blatantly missed huge parts of the game and mechanics that to other players are obvious.

2) Suck at gaming and therfore need to whine to make themselves feel better.

3) Fail irl and whine and troll about anything and everything.

4) Have to high expectations.

 

[Mirt]

1994! LOL? EverQuest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway you whole post can be summed up as: I AM FANBOI, HEAR ME ROAR

 

[adams901]

I am enjoying AoC, but then I am taking my time and not rushing up the lvls (only lvl 32 and started playing on day of release).

Sure lots of things are not working, but I havent noticed them enough to ruin my game, infact as I am taking things slowly I guess a lot of the unfixed issues havent even reached me yet as they are effecting higher lvls.

I was looking forward to Warhammer, but it just looks like wow with different skins.

To me AoC is refreshing, and if i'm enjoying the game now I should be more than happy when everything is working as intended.

I'm playing on a PvP server and havent really seen that much ganking going on, sure I have been killed on a lot of occasions by a passing player, but due to the way the respawn is designed i havent been killed by the same player over and over (unless its by a spawn point and I decide to stay and fight instead of running away).

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Think he's talking about pvp tbh.

PvP is DAoC is quite pointless, especially RvR. 1 vs 1 is just class balance and spec, little skill related.

8 vs 8 in DAoC I enjoyed most, but it was a player made rule subset, something Mythic never envisioned and never really supported.

 

[Gahn]

Disclaimer: never disagree with Manisch, he knows everything and carries The Truth.
Actually i heard he even knows the 4th Fatima's Secret!!!

 

[dee777]

Disclaimer: never disagree with Manisch, he knows everything and carries The Truth.
Actually i heard he even knows the 4th Fatima's Secret!!!

Depressed by italian soccer team "performance" or just trolling for fun, mate?

 

[Gahn]

Depressed by italian soccer team "performance" or just trolling for fun, mate?

Both and trolling over Manisch normally enlightens the noon

 

[Faeldawn]

PvP is DAoC is quite pointless, especially RvR. 1 vs 1 is just class balance and spec, little skill related.

8 vs 8 in DAoC I enjoyed most, but it was a player made rule subset, something Mythic never envisioned and never really supported.

Completlely off-topic, but the player-made rules applied to all aspects of rvr in DAoC...would have been fine if the players could have agreed on what those rules should have been, unfortunately that never really happened and caused most of the animosity in the game. You just got the vocal few trying to desperately thrust their opinions down everyones throats but most players just shrugged and enjoyed the game the way it was meant to be played, the way any game is meant to be played, simply for fun

 

[Zedenz]

lol at the 1994 Everquest release "guess". Not even UO was out back then and Neverwinter Nights was only about 1991.

 

[Dr_Evil]

Yeah? What's that?

PL'ing to 50?

Faeldown: As I haven't got to experience PvP in AoC yet, oh believe me I tried but there just weren't any to play with, I can't really comment on that.

Manisch: If you would allow me to quote from a different board, where I'm having the same discussion, where there were this one person to hit the nail on the head. I couldn't really have said it better myself:

I think it is a problem with quests in general tbh.

1) To me, quests are something big - perhaps not earthshattering in importance but somehting that is quite involved. Killing X mobs of type Y is not a quest by itself. This is the first problem because writing *proper* quests is quite a task, you effectively need to write a little story and if you've ever tried to write a decent one you'll know it's harder than it sounds.

2) Making quests the staple of progressing (ie XP and rewards) means you need a lot of quests - an enormous number of them. Because if you make quests a central thing for day-to-day progression people are going to need quests to progress on a day to day basis. For example, in AoC if you run out of quests a lot of people just brickwall - what do they do now? You can have an xp group just like DAoC perfectly well but very few people do it because AoC has been busy training them over the course fo their play that quests = progression. Therefore no quests = no progression.


Taken together it means AoC needed a shittonne of quests at release but didn't have nearly enough time to make them all decent. Which means there are a lot of WoW style filler quests - kill X bandits, collect Y rocks, jump through Z hoops.


This compares poorly to DAoC, which did it the other way round - pretty much all of the quests (bar a few notable exceptions, eg Ancestral secrets)when I started were shit in terms of reward and they were few and far between. They were however usually reasonably interesting story wise (if you care about such things) and at least gave you an alternative if you got bored of looking for an xp group. As more expansions and updates happened, more decent quests got put in but as people were already used to doing xp groups for their own sake they became "extras" rather than "basic essentials".

So I blame quests - quests fail when treated as a staple requirement to achieve.


Ramble aside, hope you come back aqnd try it in a few months again.

I guess it's impossible for me to try another mmorpg when I'm expecting nothing less than DAOC 2. A game that Mythic states only will exist over the dead bodies of those working on DAOC right now.

 

[old.Tohtori]

That "nail on the head" is his preferred nail, and not all use 14inchers on a drywall to hang a picture of a bunny.

The story in AoCs quests is immersive, but you have to like the world and be immersed in it from start.

If you don't like the world of AoC, you won't enjoy the world nor the quests.

I found DAoC to be extremely boring at times, and i've yet to be bored ONCE in AoC.

Every single f*cking massive ever made and that ever WILL be made will have, if you take it down to nittygrtitty(which you shouldn't lest you'll fall bored), has "kill x of this" quests.

Every. Single. One.

How else could it be?

"Go kill picts until, well, until you don't feel like it anymore?"

Expecting DAoC 2 is fine and dandy, but don't compare another game to your lifes gem.

 

[Zedenz]

A lot of the DAoC quests weren't just "Kill x of Y" which I think is the quoted blokes point.

As I said though, people are defending this game like it's the second coming or something. It's still NEW, if you like it now..kudos to you, but just get on with playing it and stop trying to convince people it's something "special". It just comes accross as if you're trying to convince yourself too.

Sorry if people on here didn't jack off over it, but just let it be. Play your game as you obviously have fun with it, which is great.

Z.

 

[Faeldawn]

That "nail on the head" is his preferred nail, and not all use 14inchers on a drywall to hang a picture of a bunny.

The story in AoCs quests is immersive, but you have to like the world and be immersed in it from start.

If you don't like the world of AoC, you won't enjoy the world nor the quests.

I found DAoC to be extremely boring at times, and i've yet to be bored ONCE in AoC.

Every single f*cking massive ever made and that ever WILL be made will have, if you take it down to nittygrtitty(which you shouldn't lest you'll fall bored), has "kill x of this" quests.

Every. Single. One.

How else could it be?

"Go kill picts until, well, until you don't feel like it anymore?"

Expecting DAoC 2 is fine and dandy, but don't compare another game to your lifes gem.

Think this is very valid, there are some things that are a mmo staple now. While we might not like them, that probably won't change games designers minds that they can get away with cheap content by using these types of quests. Players will still do these quests regardless of the lack of imagination on the devs part if the reward is high enough.

 

[old.Tohtori]

A lot of the DAoC quests weren't just "Kill x of Y" which I think is the quoted blokes point.

As I said though, people are defending this game like it's the second coming or something. It's still NEW, if you like it now..kudos to you, but just get on with playing it and stop trying to convince people it's something "special". It just comes accross as if you're trying to convince yourself too.

Sorry if people on here didn't jack off over it, but just let it be. Play your game as you obviously have fun with it, which is great.

Z.

The guys point was that "DAoC did it better with fewer quests and those few quests nto being 'kill x of this'" which is the bullcrap i'm calling out.

Kill x is the norm, as if you've ever worked in these kind of things, you know you just DON'T have the time to do all.

I'm nto trying to convince others, but tic for tac; stop trying to beat down a game others enjoy and piss off? Most people here are defending unwarranted accusations and comparisons.

Think this is very valid, there are some things that are a mmo staple now. While we might not like them, that probably won't change games designers minds that they can get away with cheap content by using these types of quests. Players will still do these quests regardless of the lack of imagination on the devs part if the reward is high enough.

Game designers aren't the fault by the way, most of the "poor quests" probably are the more genious content as they had to be put in game, thinking of both content and time available.

Developers(personal POV from the industry) ALWAYS would LOVE to put alot of things in, but producers hold the cash and as such, designers especailly have to bow and take it up the hiney like the players.

Most developers are gamers, and as such, hate that they have to do this as much as you hate it, but they are damn sure to put in the BEST content they can.

 

[Mirt]

Developers(personal POV from the industry) ALWAYS would LOVE to put alot of things in, but producers hold the cash and as such, designers especailly have to bow and take it up the hiney like the players.

You are in the industry? OK mate, I'll bite, please link your entry in MobyGames (MobyGames - A Game Documentation and Review Project).

Game designers aren't the fault by the way, most of the "poor quests" probably are the more genious content as they had to be put in game, thinking of both content and time available.

So basically it's the producers fault that MMOs often contain fed-ex and kill X of Y quests? And the poor benighted designers are blaimless I presume...

 

[dee777]

I actually agree that "kill X of Y" is not really a quest. However I very much enjoy that. I like killing mobs just to hear the squishy sounds when their blood hits my monitor from the inside during a fatality. If at the same time I am able to finish a "quest" for some extra XP on top of that, hats just icing on the cake. Tho usually I kill X*2 of Y, because I get carried away in the bloodshed... ^^

I remember kill tasks in DAoC (back, back, back in the days when you didnt PL alts) and I had more fun with them than with all the other "quest-content" I encountered in that game. They were easy, could be done on really short play-sessions and you felt you accomplished something. Sadly there was some kind of maximum number on killtasks you could do per level. I wish FC would blatantly copy the kill task system.

 

[dee777]

You are in the industry? OK mate, I'll bite, please link your entry in MobyGames (MobyGames - A Game Documentation and Review Project).

Not taking sides here, but there are more than a couple of reasons not to give away your RL identity in some kind of gamer forum, mate.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You are in the industry? OK mate, I'll bite, please link your entry in MobyGames (MobyGames - A Game Documentation and Review Project).

Bite what?

Transworld Snowboarding? Pathway to Glory? Sequel to that?

Those are games i've been involved in, that are "more known", and just fyi, not all developers log onto all the internet content "supposedly" prooving things.

So basically it's the producers fault that MMOs often contain fed-ex and kill X of Y quests? And the poor benighted designers are blaimless I presume...

Does not exclude poor design, but more often then often, time is an issue with games. That's why, you get "filler" quests. To give people more to do with given time and resources.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Then again, trying to "prove your self" to a forum troll is as pointless as hitting your head against the wall to cure Alzheimer's. Not to mention, like it owuld end my career if Miriam there didn't believe me

 

[Mirt]

Not taking sides here, but there are more than a couple of reasons not to give away your RL identity in some kind of gamer forum, mate.

In hindsight mostly agree actually. Anyway while AoC is not a bad game, however, it's obvious it's been rushed out and products that are buggy as hell shouldn't be released until the problems are fixed. Fortunatly FunCom do seem to be fixing a lot of the issues.

It irritates me a lot, however, when people act as if this is perfectly normal and to be expected. It's only to be expected because we don't complain enough, and unless we the consumbers vote with our feet nothing will ever change. Discuss ;P

 

[Faeldawn]

You are in the industry? OK mate, I'll bite, please link your entry in MobyGames (MobyGames - A Game Documentation and Review Project).

Tend to agree with Dee here.

Anything posted on a forum should really be treated as conjecture and opinion anyway. I could say I am Bill Gates, although it may not be true, it's practically impossible to either prove or disprove through the anonymity of a forum user account.

Personally i have this image of Tothori being a cross between Tony Hawkes, Pavarotti and the dude from Tron, only with slightly less zip

 

[partyanimal]

Anyway while AoC is not a bad game, however, it's obvious it's been rushed out and products that are buggy as hell shouldn't be released until the problems are fixed.
It irritates me a lot, however, when people act as if this is perfectly normal and to be expected. It's only to be expected because we don't complain enough, and unless we the consumbers vote with our feet nothing will ever change. Discuss ;P

ha ha ha!!! the fh inquisition will treat you right!
there are so much evidence to burn you!

you can escape the fires of purification and live in shame for saying all these, if you sigh the following statement:

aoc is perfect and flawless, constant patching is just funcom's policy.
it was launched after 1 year of delay and therefore enriched by millions of radical ideas.
it is mend to be played by noobs on pve servers and pros on pvp servers.
anyone who has a different opinion, sucks irl.



goodbye post to my ex-aoc inmates.
enjoy your holidays

 

[Talivar]

Sometimes a Pre released MMOS greatest enemy is simply money and funding, there comes a point where the makers run out of funds and NEED to release a game to recoup all or most of the money they have invested into it, this enables them to take the money and carry on working on thye game, sadly it means the game is often not nearly as finished as intended. But given a choice of release unfinished and early or never release at all its a simple choice really. We all get annoyed at the things missing or not upto what we hoped/expected but at the end of the day you have to ask yourself would you rather have had nothing at all to play?

 

[Talivar]

And before anyone says rubbih it isnt as harsh as that and mmos never in a release or die situation just look at Gods and Heroes an how funds/money ran out for that yet it wasnt close enough to release so it was cancelled.

 

[old.Tohtori]

In hindsight mostly agree actually. Anyway while AoC is not a bad game, however, it's obvious it's been rushed out and products that are buggy as hell shouldn't be released until the problems are fixed. Fortunatly FunCom do seem to be fixing a lot of the issues.

It irritates me a lot, however, when people act as if this is perfectly normal and to be expected. It's only to be expected because we don't complain enough, and unless we the consumbers vote with our feet nothing will ever change. Discuss ;P

Actually...no. the only way for us to "change" things is to gather a massive support of people NOT nuying the product in the first place in order to hinder things so much, that it's worth more to put extra cash/time into a game.

Now, what would it mean from the producer viewpoint?

"MMOs don't sell! Let's not make MMOs!"

So it would be independent people who would make MMOs from there on. And then, we get to square one as independent people don't have the skills/resources and we'd get even buggier games.

It's a fact really.

Some things you just HAVE to take as a norm. Like bunnyhopping in FPSs. It's not real or "nice", but it's going nowhere.

Oh and about the troll bit, you seem to have more sense then one so i'll call you a roll instead

Personally i have this image of Tothori being a cross between Tony Hawkes, Pavarotti and the dude from Tron, only with slightly less zip

A skateboarding dead guy in electroblue tights?!

With these powers, i could be...a superhero!

 

[dee777]

Personally i have this image of Tothori being a cross between Tony Hawkes, Pavarotti and the dude from Tron, only with slightly less zip

Damn...I wish I could be the Tronguy...

Anyway. I dont agree with Mirt and others, that expect gamecompanies to deliver a "finished" and "bugfree" product. I just dont think it is economically possible. Companies burn a whole lot of cash when creating MMOs nowadays and only a few actually return the investment. Some fail horribly *cough* Tabula Rasa *cough*.

I expect the industry to change, as I consider MMOs the big thing that movies were one generation ago. Already titles like WoW and the GTA series have a higher ROI than a lot of other investments. Some megastudio will sooner or later throw out a crapton of cash for a MMO and if they will succeed, more will follow. Blizzard proved that you can make insane amounts of cash and it wont take long till venture capitalists will try to get a piece of the cake. Especially if the industry will breed a new generation of superheroes, like Peter Molyneux, Richard Garriot or John Carmack were a couple of years ago.

 

[Shike]

Well, i can sum it up too:

People are too f*cking picky.

I've not yet met one bug in AoC(not saying there aren't bugs) that would make me go "huf, i quit! this game sucks! what a bad bug!"

Doublebuffs? I alt+z twice. Done. One half a second.
Chat not working "like in wow", hell, it's not and learn to use it.

And same goes for ALL bugs ingame, ALL.

People are like spoiled brats when it comes to MMOs.

Don't start playing MMOs from the start as THEY WILL be bugged. No launch was without them. Name one, just one.

If you don't like it, it's simple, f*ck off and come back later.

EDIT: This isn't so much towards you as it is towrds the "we are eleet pg18" people who sit and whine about their lollipop tasting of banana when it was supposed to be cola.

humdidum, agree with the mad doctor tbh

I remember DAoCs launch.. LOL @ that

 

[Raven]

yes yes thats all very nice but times change, as I have said before MMOs are no longer played in darkened rooms to avoid people finding out that you play them, they are pretty much mainstream. There is NO excuse for having a game allegedly in development for 4-5 years and still be so broken on release. Personally I don't mind waiting for it to be fixed because I do think it will be good one day. I very much doubt the majority who have come from WoW and such will stick around, sadly within a year it will become yet another niche MMO like the army of other MMOs.

Its a shame really as it does offer a lot of nice touches, though there are so many bugs and broken or just plain vague parts to the game that it just does not attract itself to enough people to make it big.

Rubbish economy
Rubbish crafting/gathering
Far to many broken quests
No real information on stats or abilities, half of them don;t even do anything anyway.
Frankly stupid travel system, I don;t mind having to travel long distances but I would rather do it by some sort of NPC horse/flight/teleport whatever, running across the broken tundra gets rather boring after a while.
Crap UI, seriously its a step back in time, its more basic than DAOCs and thats ancient.
Rubbish chat function
No /who command so you feel even less part of a community.

Once its fixed it will be fine, though I think it will be to late for most people.

 

[taB]

yes yes thats all very nice but times change, as I have said before MMOs are no longer played in darkened rooms to avoid people finding out that you play them, they are pretty much mainstream.

You don't? Damn, better unboard the windows then.


Rubbish economy - meh, not bought anything yet, never been someone to care too much about that

Rubbish crafting/gathering - gathering seems fine, some crafting works, other bits don't yet - will do those when they're fixed

Far to many broken quests - Enough unbroken ones tbh (till late 50s - and then broken isn't the issue, just frequency)

No real information on stats or abilities, half of them don;t even do anything anyway. - we're all on an even playing field

Frankly stupid travel system, I don;t mind having to travel long distances but I would rather do it by some sort of NPC horse/flight/teleport whatever, running across the broken tundra gets rather boring after a while. - boring maybe for you. It's a time cost of being where I want to be. Ensures I weigh up whether going to xyz is worth the time sink.

Crap UI, seriously its a step back in time, its more basic than DAOCs and thats ancient. - seems to work, all I need.

Rubbish chat function - could be better, could be worse. I can talk to ppl and only sometimes wwwwwwwwwwwwwww in chat

No /who command so you feel even less part of a community - no right click, show info command either. But then this isn't Eve or which ever game you're thinking of. Try talking to someone and saying "oi toss-pot where're you from?"


Just a counter position to your points, as I'm sure you expected someone to post exactly what I have. :kissit: