Stealth Wars and NightShades/Rangers (Episode II)

[bigchief]

I think slo was trying to say inf + mincer vs 4 opponents isnt overpowered. In fact its a hell of a challenge to come away without losing someone, especially against mini gank groups that run around odins (bard drood hero chanter, shammy healer skald savage etc). Done a duo with a mincer on a few occasions and it can be quite fun. Ganking a soloer with a duo is boring though. As is mincer + inf vs 2sb or 2ns.

Mincer + inf vs 6 ns/ranger is just tedius

Anyone notice the thread go downhill since grivne found it?

 

[nuky]

I think slo was trying to say inf + mincer vs 4 opponents isnt overpowered. In fact its a hell of a challenge to come away without losing someone, especially against mini gank groups that run around odins (bard drood hero chanter, shammy healer skald savage etc). Done a duo with a mincer on a few occasions and it can be quite fun. Ganking a soloer with a duo is boring though. As is mincer + inf vs 2sb or 2ns.

Mincer + inf vs 6 ns/ranger is just tedius

Anyone notice the thread go downhill since grivne found it?

what amazes me is that against small 'gank groups' like that you think 2 stealthers should be able to come away with anything, no other realm would stand a chance

 

[Ormorof]

I think slo was trying to say inf + mincer vs 4 opponents isnt overpowered.

i think what everyone else was trying to say is its damn overpowered

 

[Shike]

Remove dragonfang and u will notice how easy it is to kill 80% of infils.
Powerleveled gimps

didnt even reach rr3 before I retired mine.
I was slash tho mind you. as I dont find it fun with insta win buttons.

but when PAing a SB for 650 to 800 at rr2 with only purge as RA
Buffed with Mota2 45 cleric buffs.

sword spd was 3.2 mainhand 2.6 offhand. not counting offhand on those PA dmgs either.

and that was regular. ALWAYS 600+. then Cd stun and they was doomed. purge or whatever they cant compete with it.

Laxe hitting for such crap dmg that even a low dw specced infil with outdmg it even if its a hit every 4th swing.

Shadowblades gets tough around rr5 no shit bout that

but a newly dinged 50 infeel can go out and pwn most its wrong.

tho i remember that troll zerk showed me the way back to the bind stone
Ideas:
Make Laxe work as DW/CD
Remove infil 2.5 spec points.
Keep vanish. but make it impossible to attack for another 10-15 sec to prevent double PA. vanish was made to be able to get away
Put dragonfang on a followup to first evade style in thrust line. and make it a 7 second stun (on pair with Laxe stun style)
Make riposte (slash line) followup to be off evade on infils (parry wtf) and keep 5 seconds.
Change Blade line block chain to be a evade chain (?)
Make Axe line 50 str/dex

Remove 2hand from Sbs (overpowered in thid xD)
Lower Sb hit points
raise Ns hitpoints
Keep Inf hitpoints

Ideas only its 06.16 in the morning and ive been ToA hunting all night

me xDDD

uhm.. not only DF makes infils good in my book but ok...

Fix LA for SBs so it works more like DW/CD
Keep SBs HPs as is
NS dont need more HPs
Lower Infils to 2.2x like the rest of the assassins and keep DF but change it to a medium-to-hit instead of high-to-hit.
Put range on all realmspecificspeccbuffs, haste, AF, end (yes i know its ranged already). Also make Absbuffs groupbased from BDs and necros and animists, same with hastes, damageadds etc from casters. (meaning, as soon as u leave grp, the buff greys out until expired). Sure it forces everyone to use pots/charges... but it would at least be equal for all, also increase effects of charges etc to at least 20mins.
Remove minstrels stealth or simply make them UNable to cast any form of CC 1min from they have been stealthed last time, i'd be happy with either. If removing stealth, give them better CC in return based on instruments.
Give hunters chain (sounds crazy mebbe but I think it would help them abit).
Give scouts a baseline speedshout.

etc etc.. will Mythic bother with fixing this? do they bother with this forum? no, not really so why bother?

 

[Heheyougotboned]

reply to the stealther situation

My opinion is that all stealther classes should be removed from Doac. Then at least it would help all people to get a more even playingfield. All are visible to each other. I guess I will be flamed by all you stealthers now but this is my opinion and nothing you will say can change it.

If you want to solo there is other classes you can play except stealthers.

 

[Shike]

My opinion is that all stealther classes should be removed from Doac. Then at least it would help all people to get a more even playingfield. All are visible to each other. I guess I will be flamed by all you stealthers now but this is my opinion and nothing you will say can change it.

If you want to solo there is other classes you can play except stealthers.

there is no need for that, I would rather see that they would limit stealth a bit so you simply cant camp areas too well.

options would be:

you cannot exceed a certain amount of stealthers in an area, then stealth start taking hits and you become more and more visible with more stealthers around u. This effectively kill camping of chokepoints and forces stealthers to move around more which imo they should do since I personally dont like campers that kill soloers and duos with 1fg+ etc.

you become gradually more visible for every minute u spend in an area. This also kills camping effectively since nobody can stay in a certain area for too long unless they want to get discovered.

use planetsides version of stealth where u can be seen by the one paying attention while moving. This would benefit archers the most ofc since they can be somewhat stationary but I feel that most classes actually have a very efficient defense vs archers as is already anyway so I wouldnt care about the little benefit they would get from this solution.

I agree with assassins beeing overpowered in general as is today, archers are pretty fine though, minstrels are completely silly, you simply cannot kill a good minstrel. Either they win, or they run off easy (this require a certain amount of "skill" aswell ofc (read: press sos when needed)) and they also have a given spot in any albgrp aswell ontop of that. Minstrels will ofc complain and say that aint the case but in my book it is, abla, IP, sos, AP, mez, stun, DDs, highlvlpetaccess, chain, evade2 etc.. if you cant use all these tools and play well... well no class will ever be good in your hands. Sure you need a high RR as minstrel to perform really well but then on the other hand, NSs are balancing out past rr5 aswell so I dont see a problem with this really.

 

[Ormorof]

use planetsides version of stealth where u can be seen by the one paying attention while moving. This would benefit archers the most ofc since they can be somewhat stationary but I feel that most classes actually have a very efficient defense vs archers as is already anyway so I wouldnt care about the little benefit they would get from this solution.

ie make stealth stealth, rather than invisibility

 

[old.windforce]

Forgive me if I've misread but are you trying to say that an Infi/Mincer duo isn't overpowered?

:touch:

i was doing the :kissit: thing because it is impossible to make a statement you are having FUN in the game without being whined at.

i have loads of fun with my cleric too. the weakest of all healer classes (apart from bof which i would gladly trade for group purge)

when i am in a group of 2 killing a group which holds a blademaster, bard, champion and some other class i truly believe i am not "overpowered" towards the opponent.

I think everyone is getting 90% of its realmpoints "easy mode". Either by outnumbering the opponent or fighting an opponent that doens't stand a change (sb killing a solo caster = no challenge)

 

[Ormorof]

and an infil mincer duo killing solo casters is a challenge?

(oh and you would be suprised at what casters can be capable of )

 

[old.windforce]

nope

and not alb casters

 

[Kingston]

 

[Speeedy]

Was finding this thread intresting till I got to this post :< most of it is fine till you get to minstrel's... once again someone who has never played one in RvR i'm guessing? ;o

Biggest problem however is the MINSTREL this is the most owerpowerd class in the whole game IMO. Chain + stealth its just silly. SoS and BoF or what its called. The tools the minstrel gives a alb stealth group, ( duo trio of fg) is just owerpowerd you cant compete with that Stealth group vs stealth group. The new boost on minstrel is just silly. In the state the minstrel is in I almost rather fight a Infiltrator then a Minstrel. I dont see how its possible for a class that has a 1 handed weapon to hit me for more then I hit him with my 2 handed spear, and yes im wearing a MP armour with capped resists and usually have maxbuffs (+mota 3) Minstrel has become a second assassin class.

Here is a story from a encounter with a Minstrel. You can call us what you want (Me and Larre a SB) that we are newbies etc and dont know how to play our class etc I dont care. I´ve played hunter since Beta and from my point of view did every thing right that fight, used barbed arrows for most dmg. Got crit in put pet on him etc, larre got PA+CD in and then we started meleeing him down. Well he killed me like I was butter I even used IP + my lifedrain belt + 1 health potion. Larre kept fighting him and would have got his ass handed to him if a ranger didnt add.

Oh and if a minstrel is looking to loose a fight they can alway SoS. SoS for the win... lost 2 relics because of SoS.. GG Mythic
starting to respect you or atleast hate you less,

This minstrel that you attacked what was his name? ;o most hunters hit me for about 100+ more than I hit them.. so maybe high RR mincer with high AP? also if he was solo chances he was buffed silly (i normaly go with 50 enhance +moa3)

SoS and BoF.... You say you have played this game from beta... think most people are well aware that BoF = Bunker of faith the cleric RA.

Yes I do feel minstrels could either be tonned down abit or the other classes (skald/bard) get a bit of a boost, BUT before people keep going on about well bard should get stealth etc.. if all the speed classes get balanced like that will mincers get a instant aoe mezz range 1500+ ? oh.. and give skald 2h weapons to mincer to ;o do think skald should get ablative tho

btw most over powered class ingame for me is not a stealther from any realm but mid healer Oo nurf tbh

 

[Speeedy]

there is no need for that, I would rather see that they would limit stealth a bit so you simply cant camp areas too well.

options would be:

you cannot exceed a certain amount of stealthers in an area, then stealth start taking hits and you become more and more visible with more stealthers around u. This effectively kill camping of chokepoints and forces stealthers to move around more which imo they should do since I personally dont like campers that kill soloers and duos with 1fg+ etc.

you become gradually more visible for every minute u spend in an area. This also kills camping effectively since nobody can stay in a certain area for too long unless they want to get discovered.

use planetsides version of stealth where u can be seen by the one paying attention while moving. This would benefit archers the most ofc since they can be somewhat stationary but I feel that most classes actually have a very efficient defense vs archers as is already anyway so I wouldnt care about the little benefit they would get from this solution.

I agree with assassins beeing overpowered in general as is today, archers are pretty fine though, minstrels are completely silly, you simply cannot kill a good minstrel. Either they win, or they run off easy (this require a certain amount of "skill" aswell ofc (read: press sos when needed)) and they also have a given spot in any albgrp aswell ontop of that. Minstrels will ofc complain and say that aint the case but in my book it is, abla, IP, sos, AP, mez, stun, DDs, highlvlpetaccess, chain, evade2 etc.. if you cant use all these tools and play well... well no class will ever be good in your hands. Sure you need a high RR as minstrel to perform really well but then on the other hand, NSs are balancing out past rr5 aswell so I dont see a problem with this really.

Just read this and would love to see them changes.. also i think chain on hunters would be a good thing to.

 

[Glacier]

As far as stealthers go.. the stealthers that need a boost are SB's imo, the only thing NS's need is celt (to make it even worth going blades.) or shar for that matter.. something that is abit less likely to happen shadowblades does not have the choise of wether to get 50% effected in weapon damage by debuffing stealther or 100%.. they get raped by str/con debuff.. and with no 1 liner after evade stun, after you gotten a SB out of melee, and have him debuffed, everything points towards the shadowblade going down..

Only nice thing about the shadowblade is the 50'ish extra hp, and the ability to go dual battler without having to loose any after evade 1 liner stun... but seeing as nly way to level battler is killing rvr enemies, smething that also means your group/you woul have to have a constant upper hand in rvr, i doubt that is going to happen(atleast not on prydwen with DS etc)

To be able to be good in melee and to have respectable crit spec, a sb needs to sacrifice about 10 envenom points.. something that is crap imo..

Infiltrators need a good old whooping, NS need's new races, and SB's need... stuff!


.. to put it short.

For an Infiltrator to be competing at top in 1 on 1 encounters, he needs.. 50thrust, and rest is up to the player (....old df whine ;x ,, yes, so what.. who gives a crap :touch: )

For an Nightshade to be on top, he needs high RR

For an Shadowblade to be on top, he needs good skill, optimized at all times (with RA's ML's Artifacts, Pots etc), and relics

 

[Glacier]

My opinion is that all stealther classes should be removed from Doac. Then at least it would help all people to get a more even playingfield. All are visible to each other. I guess I will be flamed by all you stealthers now but this is my opinion and nothing you will say can change it.

If you want to solo there is other classes you can play except stealthers.

says the bd :worthy:.

with stealthlore and disarm stealthers are virtually removed from the game.. something that is a shame in my opinion.. cause they was about the only class that can take a bd down in a one on one battle..

 

[Dook]

says the bd :worthy:.

with stealthlore and disarm stealthers are virtually removed from the game.. something that is a shame in my opinion.. cause they was about the only class that can take a bd down in a one on one battle..

I took a BD down on my S/S Hero yesterday in HW. Don't ask me how 'coz fuck if I know.

 

[Dorin]

I took a BD down on my S/S Hero yesterday in HW. Don't ask me how 'coz fuck if I know.

he was afk or blue con ?

 

[Seline]

Hmmm, well the way I see it, is that Mythic won't remove stealth from Minstrels, they won't take away Infils 2.5 spec points etc. because they'd lose too many players. And giving Bards/Skalds stealth won't happen either, what then? Well eventually all three realms would just be three versions of albion fighting each other. Ok all of you other mid/hib stealthers whine whenever someone uses DF on you, and call them noobs etc so you don't have to feel so bad about losing, personally I don't think people should be getting all pissed off when they die, because it's a game ya know? I play to have fun, if I die, I just release and go back, I don't whine about dying just because I get killed by an enemy stealther. I've seen mids/hibs goto amg in emain, get killed by about a fg of stealthers, then keep going back, then whine about it on IRC/FH or whatever, which if ya think about it is rather stupid

SBs have no trouble killing me and Amie when we duo, unless we use TS at the right times. I've seen SBs win easily in solo fights vs most other stealth classes, followed by the usual 10 PAs and 4 arrows for the poor SB :/ Not played one myself so can't say if they're gimped or what not.

Well anyways, Rawr!

Edit - One more thing, to Kingston, I assume that screenie was taken recently hence the toa interface, I guess that's a screenshot of Rambo soloing right? I mean those other names must be just bugs or something <Giggles then runs off>

 

[Ctuchik]

sorry to disappoint you but i have caped resists. (hello rr1+? think a bit before writing silly things, everyone who plays this game more then 2 hours a week has sc armor....)

u should think a bit urself.. i usually play about 7 hours a day and i dont have sc... and guess what. i got capped resists anyway....

 

[xxManiacxx]

Everyone knows that DF = insta win

Every necro pled fotm infil out there is gonna argue about that while the old ones that have played their char since the old days are gonna agree that DF is a laughable style (Maybe not everyone).

And for those who says that you always get purged with DF u must have the worst luck in the world... I for one get into arount 8-12 fights between every purge.

I just get so mad about taking a infil down to 20% without a hassle and then loose because he gets DF and I don´t have purge up. Shouldn´t be like that.

And I am taking about me, a rr6l6 SB versus a rr2-3 infil

 

[Dorin]

u should think a bit urself.. i usually play about 7 hours a day and i dont have sc... and guess what. i got capped resists anyway....

soz, you are da man xD

 

[Dorin]

Everyone knows that DF = insta win

Every necro pled fotm infil out there is gonna argue about that while the old ones that have played their char since the old days are gonna agree that DF is a laughable style (Maybe not everyone).

And for those who says that you always get purged with DF u must have the worst luck in the world... I for one get into arount 8-12 fights between every purge.

I just get so mad about taking a infil down to 20% without a hassle and then loose because he gets DF and I don´t have purge up. Shouldn´t be like that.

And I am taking about me, a rr6l6 SB versus a rr2-3 infil

yea its funny to pa a warder infil, he evades cd - dragonfangs you and laugh if you dont have purge

 

[Ilum]

I took a BD down on my S/S Hero yesterday in HW. Don't ask me how 'coz fuck if I know.

Actually, even I can do it...with my Pala ;p Atleast buffed vs unbuffed

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

Grive, don't you get enough of bullshitting on IRC?

I've seen untold stealthers solo, just because with the situation as it is, stealthers are smart enough to group at peak times rather than try to solo and get wtfganked by opposing stealthers in groups it doesn't mean they never solo.

Your own movie shows you killing solo stealthers ffs.

Oh and BTW, your post naming the only stealthers you claim solo was so blatantly ass-kissing. :>

in my movie? you mean the lowbie inf i chased and 2 shoted, the afk-autorun scout and Mona?

Mona, in that movie, was running back to rebuff i guess, as I know 1 or 2 of her friends didnt bother to chase me. But I did see them in distance.

And yes, most assasins do solo at casual times. My point is about ppl that solo more then 80%ish of the times.

And me bullshitting on irc? I am bullshitting couse I claim something and then get totally fucking run over by the retarded flamers who thinks its funny to make fun of others? Yeah, maybe i am then. but i never claimed anything without proof.

 

[Svartur]

lol@this

To bad I cant quote myself from Barrysworld from the first thread Rambo claimed he wasnt gonna group in large numbers no more. But I said something like this: (old indian stuff)

Only when last mid have been slained
Only when last hib have been beaten
Only then will you learn that RPs cant be eaten

And now you say this:

Was a nice evening 3-4 days ago when i loged in with Rambo and went emain. i was solo and couldnt find something to kill, albs was all over the place some fg mids but no solo or duo's. Rambo.

The old indians came true. Having a guild constantly running in large organized groups zerging around emain made this into a permanent problem from being just a rare sight sometimes (fg stealthers)

Noone wants to go there anymore and who can blame them.
Mincers is also "mezzing" the situation up making smalescale stealthwar or large scale leaning to albs favour.

Nightshades however is not a bad class at all imo. Perhaps a bit tough at low RRs like I imagine Hunters could be to nowadays. But after RR5 the fun begin. Their problems lies more in running to emain (zZz) and getting zerged by fg+ alb stealthers.

There is no solution cause some people cant change. I dont see whats gonna change the current situation. Maybe frontiers will help. Roll an alt like many others have done.
Good for mids and hibs though, unlike albion who roll stealther alts we roll non-stealther alts which will benefit our realms more in the long run.
But surely the overpopulated alb stealthers must get bored sometime and do something else huh? Many seem to have gone elsewhere already, those you respected as well leaving mostly zerglings and PL:ed wannabies.

Gonna make my healer level 50 asap.

 

[Ormorof]

Perhaps a bit tough at low RRs like I imagine Hunters could be to nowadays.

only when fighting much higher rr than yourself im only rr2 atm and me and my buffed pet killed an inf and was fighting the minstrel too when 2 more turned up (i was solo apart from pet )

was good fun though and i admit i was in big group first day in emain, but mostly done duo/solo since then, with the majority of the people off in toa its not too shabby here

 

[Mabs]

1- take the stun off DF and put it in rib seperator or even ripper
2- change LA so its not needed to b spec'd for SBs

loads would whinge and quit (woot :kissit: ) and would b left with crit strike assasins, none of those stupid mercfil/shadowzerk type :touch:

all assasins would then have same spec stun just different styles etc, and hopefully drop the overall population - everyone can stop whineing uke:

 

[Vladamir]

If you're wanting to put DF after ripper you've;

a) Fucked up infil as a class to a degree, 50/50 is not a recommended spec for lower rr's. 50/44/35/35 is the usual spec, although with autotrain, 50/50/35/3x would be viable i suppose.

b) Not thought your idea through properly, DF is in the thrust line, Ripper is in critical strike. Doesn't take a genius to realise you can't chain styles from different spec lines

 

[Mabs]

If you're wanting to put DF after ripper you've;

a) Fucked up infil as a class to a degree, 50/50 is not a recommended spec for lower rr's. 50/44/35/35 is the usual spec, although with autotrain, 50/50/35/3x would be viable i suppose.

b) Not thought your idea through properly, DF is in the thrust line, Ripper is in critical strike. Doesn't take a genius to realise you can't chain styles from different spec lines

a- you wouldnt need 50 thrust any more.. 44/44 (rib sep is 44 CS, 50 CS = ripper, but would b unduely harsh on SBs with less spec)

b- who said anything about chaining from different style lines ? im talking about removing the stun from DF.. so dragon fang no longer has a stun... and adding a stun to the 3rd or 4th chain in the hamstring/leaper/rib seperator/ripper Crit strike chain, so all 3 assasin classes have access to it, still comes from evade, but is not so easy to *spam* like DF is

 

[Damon_D]

Take away LA penalty so we can play like SB's on PvP servers do with hib and albion left hand weapons , give us a decent RA and " fix " DF and I will ask no more